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"Matthew East" 08-29-2008 07:38 AM

gnome-control-center
 
Hi,

I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was
considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been
reconsidered for Intrepid?

I tried Suse recently and one of the obvious things that was done
better than Ubuntu was that it didn't have the awkward
"Administration" / "Preferences" distinction for configuration tools.
For me it's one of the most uncomfortable things about our desktop,
and gnome-control-center would make a big improvement, if it is
suitable for inclusion.

It strikes me that Intrepid is an ideal release to introduce something
like this. If it's already been considered and rejected, perhaps you
could point me towards an explanation of the reasons.

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Oliver Grawert 08-29-2008 07:53 AM

gnome-control-center
 
hi,
On Fr, 2008-08-29 at 08:38 +0100, Matthew East wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was
> considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been
> reconsidered for Intrepid?
it is included since gutsy ... just enable the menu entry for it in your
menu editor ;)

i personally still doubt the usability to wait 30sec for a
control-center shell window to come up and then search with a search
tool for the thing i need while i just wanted to quickly change a
setting ...
a task that takes me in max two clicks to get to the setting in the
current setup without involving waiting for a crowded shell window or
typing into search fields to find the tool i need ...

if software slows me down in what i'm doing i cant see the
improvement ...

ciao
oli
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"Matthew East" 08-29-2008 09:25 AM

gnome-control-center
 
Hi Oliver,

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> hi,
> On Fr, 2008-08-29 at 08:38 +0100, Matthew East wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was
>> considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been
>> reconsidered for Intrepid?
> it is included since gutsy ... just enable the menu entry for it in your
> menu editor ;)

I'm aware of that, what I meant by "inclusion by default" was that it
would be active in the menu without requiring enabling in the menu
editor.

> i personally still doubt the usability to wait 30sec for a
> control-center shell window to come up

If that's not an exaggeration, then that would of course be a serious
issue. On my computer it certainly doesn't take 30 seconds, it's more
like 3-4 seconds. Do you know the reason for the delay on your
computer? If that's a common bug then of course I accept it is a valid
justification of the status quo.

> and then search with a search
> tool for the thing i need while i just wanted to quickly change a
> setting ...

Actually, it's easier to find an application in gnome-control-center
because they are grouped in categories. Looking for the correct tool
to change a configuration setting in the long
Administration/Preferences menus is actually very difficult unless you
already know what it is called - not all of them are completely
intuitive. That's ok for people who have been using Gnome a while, but
it must be hell for those who haven't.

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"Bryan Quigley" 08-29-2008 11:00 PM

gnome-control-center
 
It makes it easier for new users, and anyone searching to change a setting.** (which is really important)

It makes it slower for those that change a setting often (or use synaptic), for those I suggest they make a shortcut.*


Which presents my biggest problem with it, it lets you add things to startup (which is cool), but it doesn't have a desktop shortcut option.* With that option, I'm for it completely.
-Bryan




On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:32 AM, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando <ubuntu@bugabundo.net> wrote:

Olá Oliver e a todos.



On Friday 29 August 2008 08:53:56 Oliver Grawert wrote:

> i personally still doubt the usability to wait 30sec for a control-center shell window to come up



It took me 3 sec on a C2D laptop.



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Jeff 09-02-2008 01:12 PM

gnome-control-center
 
there is a problem that I see with gnome-control-center: it does not honor the changes you do to the menus with Alacarte. If you hide some administration/preferences features for example, they will not show up in the menus (as intended), but they will show up in gnome-control-center.



I don't want to relinquish this feature.


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Matthew East 02-23-2009 12:29 PM

gnome-control-center
 
I wonder if it would be appropriate for inclusion of
gnome-control-center to be considered again for Jaunty.

I still think that the points made in my email below remain valid in
Jaunty - for me the absence of a structured preferences menu is the
main problem that stands out at me from Ubuntu's otherwise awesome
desktop. There wasn't really a very comprehensive discussion of the
issues when I raised this back in August 2008.

Oliver raised an objection that it takes 30 seconds for control-center
to open, but I've tried it now on a few different computers and it
always opens promptly: do we have any idea whether the problem Oliver
experienced is common or a rare bug on certain hardware? In any event,
perhaps it is solved now that 6 months further development has
occurred.

Do other members of the desktop team have views on this issue?

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:38 AM
Subject: gnome-control-center
To: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com


Hi,

I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was
considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been
reconsidered for Intrepid?

I tried Suse recently and one of the obvious things that was done
better than Ubuntu was that it didn't have the awkward
"Administration" / "Preferences" distinction for configuration tools.
For me it's one of the most uncomfortable things about our desktop,
and gnome-control-center would make a big improvement, if it is
suitable for inclusion.

It strikes me that Intrepid is an ideal release to introduce something
like this. If it's already been considered and rejected, perhaps you
could point me towards an explanation of the reasons.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

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Rick Spencer 02-23-2009 01:34 PM

gnome-control-center
 
On 02/23/2009 05:29 AM, Matthew East wrote:
> I wonder if it would be appropriate for inclusion of
> gnome-control-center to be considered again for Jaunty.
>
> I still think that the points made in my email below remain valid in
> Jaunty - for me the absence of a structured preferences menu is the
> main problem that stands out at me from Ubuntu's otherwise awesome
> desktop. There wasn't really a very comprehensive discussion of the
> issues when I raised this back in August 2008.
>
> Oliver raised an objection that it takes 30 seconds for control-center
> to open, but I've tried it now on a few different computers and it
> always opens promptly: do we have any idea whether the problem Oliver
> experienced is common or a rare bug on certain hardware? In any event,
> perhaps it is solved now that 6 months further development has
> occurred.
>
> Do other members of the desktop team have views on this issue?
>
I find access to the various settings applications to be rather tedious
and indirect through the gnome-control-center, so I prefer the way that
Ubuntu does it (simply with the menus).

However, that's mho, I'm interested in other thoughts on the topic.


Also, for completeness, note that the control center is installed, by
there is no GUI way to access it.

Cheers, Rick

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Alexander Sack 02-23-2009 02:58 PM

gnome-control-center
 
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 06:34:23AM -0800, Rick Spencer wrote:
> On 02/23/2009 05:29 AM, Matthew East wrote:
> > I wonder if it would be appropriate for inclusion of
> > gnome-control-center to be considered again for Jaunty.
> >
> > I still think that the points made in my email below remain valid in
> > Jaunty - for me the absence of a structured preferences menu is the
> > main problem that stands out at me from Ubuntu's otherwise awesome
> > desktop. There wasn't really a very comprehensive discussion of the
> > issues when I raised this back in August 2008.
> >
> > Oliver raised an objection that it takes 30 seconds for control-center
> > to open, but I've tried it now on a few different computers and it
> > always opens promptly: do we have any idea whether the problem Oliver
> > experienced is common or a rare bug on certain hardware? In any event,
> > perhaps it is solved now that 6 months further development has
> > occurred.
> >
> > Do other members of the desktop team have views on this issue?
> >
> I find access to the various settings applications to be rather tedious
> and indirect through the gnome-control-center, so I prefer the way that
> Ubuntu does it (simply with the menus).
>
> However, that's mho, I'm interested in other thoughts on the topic.
>

Almost all newbies i helped to install ubuntu didn't really look for
menus. This could be because they are too much trained by windows.

However, i also found that the menu list is rather long and they
usually didn't succeed to find the right entry even after pointing
them to the menu. I guess the list is just too long and the
Preferences/System split is also perceived as rather random by users
that don't know the difference.

In control center, the grouping by topics is nice for users to at
least narrow down the list they look harder at. (e.g. Internet & Net,
etc.).

(Seems like the control center entries could deserve some polishing
and maybe removing things that are not really used frequently could
help to improve it).


- Alexander


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Celeste Lyn Paul 02-23-2009 03:06 PM

gnome-control-center
 
On Monday 23 February 2009 10:58:07 am Alexander Sack wrote:

> (Seems like the control center entries could deserve some polishing
> and maybe removing things that are not really used frequently could
> help to improve it).

That is something SUN is currently working on, I think MPT is keeping up with
their work.

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KDE Usability Project
usability.kde.org

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Timo Jyrinki 02-23-2009 04:26 PM

gnome-control-center
 
2009/2/23 Alexander Sack <asac@ubuntu.com>:
>> I find access to the various settings applications to be rather tedious
>> and indirect through the gnome-control-center, so I prefer the way that
>> Ubuntu does it (simply with the menus).

Me too, although I understand also that some assume
gnome-control-center-like behavior (because of Windows etc.) so it
might be more familiar. Somehow I don't feel it's easy to navigate
anyway, it's not too polished / thought out.

> In control center, the grouping by topics is nice for users to at
> least narrow down the list they look harder at. (e.g. Internet & Net,
> etc.).

This is done in the menus by Fedora and I prefer it (multiple
sub-menus with descriptive titles, the same as in
gnome-control-center) to the current too-long list of Preferences in
Ubuntu.

> (Seems like the control center entries could deserve some polishing
> and maybe removing things that are not really used frequently could
> help to improve it).

I think mostly what would be needed is the combining of some utils
which has been discussed for a long time (somehow unable to find the
most recent page about in the wiki now). It's just that no-one has
started doing it or discussing it (enough) in GNOME.

Like: Keyboard & Shortcuts (& SCIM), Screen Saver & Power Management
(or Screen Saver & Appearance), Removable Drives and Media & Palm
Devices (->Removable Devices and Media?). Network Configuration &
Network Proxy. Some of that is considerable work that would involve
rethinking the grouping, and eg. SCIM is not even part of GNOME.

-Timo

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