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Old 08-06-2008, 10:51 AM
Martin Pitt
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

Odysseus Flappington [2008-08-06 11:35 +0100]:
> I've been using Ubuntu with autosuspend turned on for 2 years now, and it
> has never inhibited the autosuspend due to CPU usage. Be it while installing
> packages, burning cds, playing mp3s, much less showing a screensaver.

The issue is that a running screensaver would prevent the CPU to go
into a power-saving sleep state, not suspending the entire machine.

Martin

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Old 08-06-2008, 12:52 PM
"Brett Alton"
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 6:51 AM, Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Odysseus Flappington [2008-08-06 11:35 +0100]:
>> I've been using Ubuntu with autosuspend turned on for 2 years now, and it
>> has never inhibited the autosuspend due to CPU usage. Be it while installing
>> packages, burning cds, playing mp3s, much less showing a screensaver.
>
> The issue is that a running screensaver would prevent the CPU to go
> into a power-saving sleep state, not suspending the entire machine.
>
> Martin
>
> --
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>
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> ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
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>

Isn't there a way we can display a small .jpg that moves around the
screen every 5 seconds? It is what Windows XP does, and I think one of
the point to this argument, which I agree with, is that it is free
advertising.

e.g. When a news broadcast or TV show has computers on in the
background, quite often the screensavers are set to the original where
a small logo of Windows XP on a black background moves around every 3
seconds.

This is free advertising and it reinforces the name Windows in the
public's mind.

I would say enable a very very simple Ubuntu screensaver on desktops
and a blank screen on laptops.

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Old 08-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

hi,
On Mi, 2008-08-06 at 08:52 -0400, Brett Alton wrote:
> Isn't there a way we can display a small .jpg that moves around the
> screen every 5 seconds? It is what Windows XP does, and I think one of
> the point to this argument, which I agree with, is that it is free
> advertising.
thats exactly what the current one does, its configured differently
though (shows multiple logos that move faster) but there are options to
make it behave exactly like described above ...

though that doesnt help the mentioned problem, it will still require CPU
cycles to display and move the image (an svg in our case since vector
rendering eats less power than using a compressed bitmap (jpeg)) so
prevent the CPU from going into low power state.

ciao
oli
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:45 PM
Ted Gould
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:51 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Odysseus Flappington [2008-08-06 11:35 +0100]:
> > I've been using Ubuntu with autosuspend turned on for 2 years now, and it
> > has never inhibited the autosuspend due to CPU usage. Be it while installing
> > packages, burning cds, playing mp3s, much less showing a screensaver.
>
> The issue is that a running screensaver would prevent the CPU to go
> into a power-saving sleep state, not suspending the entire machine.

Considering how much is already going on, I seriously doubt that the CPU
is going into any power-saving sleep states. Just watch DBUS with all
the power related messages coming across the bus. That doesn't include
the fact that network manager is updating it's icon every five seconds
or so (why does it flicker now?).

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have that as a goal. But I seriously
doubt that switching from flying Ubuntu logos to a blank screen (not
DPMS, but blank) will have a serious impact on power.

I'm not quite sure how to measure (removing all the variables like HD
access and such) but I'd have to say that I'm a huge skeptic of the
gains here.

--Ted



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Old 08-06-2008, 09:49 PM
Ted Gould
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:35 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
> If the inhibit sleep on CPU load was ever implemented, it never
> worked.

While in theory this sounds nice, it is nearly impossible to implement
in practice. The reality is that it's difficult to determine which
things are "important" to block suspend based on CPU load alone. How
important is the animation on your desktop? Based on CPU load?

What is implemented is there is a DBUS interface that applications can
call which inhibits suspend. So if the application is doing something
that it knows suspend will effect negatively (playing a full screen DVD)
it can block that. This interface has issues too, but it does make more
sense as applications are more likely to know which actions should be
blocking.

--Ted


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Old 08-07-2008, 09:28 AM
"Odysseus Flappington"
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

This is very true, but someone needs to go around writing patches for at least all applications that are installed by default that need to manually autosuspend inhibit.

This has been done on Rythmbox already, but other apps which really need patches are: Synaptic, Nautilus (during copy/move), Nautilus-burner, Brasero (i think) and probably some other basic ones (i.e. maybe whatever Add/Remove Applications uses). I've found autosuspend to be pretty useless for my needs without at least these apps fixed, to the point where I've been looking into alternatives like sleepd.



I wouldn't mind sitting down and trying to submit the patches to the relevant projects myself, they're prolly at the right level for a beginner, but I really don't have the time at this point, maybe next year some time.


Alex

On 06/08/2008, Ted Gould <ted@ubuntu.com> wrote:

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:35 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
> If the inhibit sleep on CPU load was ever implemented, it never
> worked.


While in theory this sounds nice, it is nearly impossible to implement


in practice.**The reality is that it's difficult to determine which
things are "important" to block suspend based on CPU load alone.**How
important is the animation on your desktop?**Based on CPU load?



What is implemented is there is a DBUS interface that applications can
call which inhibits suspend.**So if the application is doing something
that it knows suspend will effect negatively (playing a full screen DVD)


it can block that.**This interface has issues too, but it does make more
sense as applications are more likely to know which actions should be
blocking.

****************--Ted



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Old 08-07-2008, 09:45 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

hi,
On Mi, 2008-08-06 at 16:45 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
> I'm not quite sure how to measure (removing all the variables like HD
> access and such) but I'd have to say that I'm a huge skeptic of the
> gains here.
powertop might help

ciao
oli
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:35 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

hi,
On Do, 2008-08-07 at 11:15 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:
> Olá Oliver e a todos.
>
> On Thursday 07 August 2008 10:45:20 Oliver Grawert wrote:
> > powertop might help
>
> Powertop is a mess.
powertop is a tool from intel which is supposed to find out the power
consuming bits of a system at runtime to adjust and tune these (i.e. the
right tool to help ted with his above question to identify and measure
the power hogs in a *running* system), i definately wouldnt use it
during suspend/resume ...

ciao
oli
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Ted Gould
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 10:28 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
> I wouldn't mind sitting down and trying to submit the patches to the
> relevant projects myself, they're prolly at the right level for a
> beginner, but I really don't have the time at this point, maybe next
> year some time.

While I understand having too much to do, if you have a little bit of
time now one thing that would be useful is to start documenting and
filing bugs on the apps that don't support inhibit but should. This way
there can be some discussion on the individual cases, but also we can
have a way to determine when the task is done. I think making an
umbrella bug "Suspend happens when I'm doing stuff" that is dependent on
all of them would help.

--Ted


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Old 08-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Matt Zimmerman
 
Default Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 07:50:55AM -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 10:28 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
> > I wouldn't mind sitting down and trying to submit the patches to the
> > relevant projects myself, they're prolly at the right level for a
> > beginner, but I really don't have the time at this point, maybe next
> > year some time.
>
> While I understand having too much to do, if you have a little bit of
> time now one thing that would be useful is to start documenting and
> filing bugs on the apps that don't support inhibit but should. This way
> there can be some discussion on the individual cases, but also we can
> have a way to determine when the task is done. I think making an
> umbrella bug "Suspend happens when I'm doing stuff" that is dependent on
> all of them would help.

Perhaps a wiki page (or even a spec) would be a better way to group these
bugs than an umbrella bug.

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