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-   -   Lots missing (http://www.linux-archive.org/red-hat-linux/454413-lots-missing.html)

Georgios Magklaras 11-18-2010 01:35 PM

Lots missing
 
On 11/18/2010 02:29 PM, lcf004 wrote:

Another thing mysteriously missing from RHEL 6:
There is no yum-updatesd. This highly hyped release of RedHat is sure
seeming like a very beta release so far....


RedHat are you guys listening? Get it together. Fix your installer -
reuse the one from RHEL 5 and by all means, put ALL the yum utilities
back into the distribution! A lot of us rely on notifications from
the server or automatic updates.


In terms of maintaining a consistency between successive distro
versions, you have a point. However, with packagekitd being a standard,
running 'gpk-prefs' and setting up your update prefs is easy and makes
life easy without yum-updatesd.


GM

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lcf004 11-18-2010 02:02 PM

Lots missing
 
Georgios Magklaras wrote:

On 11/18/2010 02:29 PM, lcf004 wrote:

Another thing mysteriously missing from RHEL 6:
There is no yum-updatesd. This highly hyped release of RedHat is sure
seeming like a very beta release so far....


RedHat are you guys listening? Get it together. Fix your installer -
reuse the one from RHEL 5 and by all means, put ALL the yum utilities
back into the distribution! A lot of us rely on notifications from
the server or automatic updates.


In terms of maintaining a consistency between successive distro
versions, you have a point. However, with packagekitd being a standard,
running 'gpk-prefs' and setting up your update prefs is easy and makes
life easy without yum-updatesd.


GM



Interesting - never heard of that util. And it's not installed by
default?? I'll check it out though, thanks!


--
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Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator

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Matty Sarro 11-18-2010 03:34 PM

Lots missing
 
Out of curiousity, I appear to be missing other items missing. Were these in
other emails on the list? I'm considering getting an eval of 6, and I'd like
to see what else has been left out from 5.5. Atm I only see 2 things
(installer and yum-updatesd), which doesn't seem to qualify as lots. Could
you let me know what else you're seeing missing?

-Matty

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:29 AM, lcf004 <lincoln.fessenden@jefferson.edu>wrote:

> Another thing mysteriously missing from RHEL 6:
> There is no yum-updatesd. This highly hyped release of RedHat is sure
> seeming like a very beta release so far....
>
> RedHat are you guys listening? Get it together. Fix your installer -
> reuse the one from RHEL 5 and by all means, put ALL the yum utilities back
> into the distribution! A lot of us rely on notifications from the server or
> automatic updates.
>
> --
> Lincoln Fessenden
> Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator
>
> --
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lcf004 11-18-2010 03:47 PM

Lots missing
 
Matty Sarro wrote:

Out of curiousity, I appear to be missing other items missing. Were these in
other emails on the list? I'm considering getting an eval of 6, and I'd like
to see what else has been left out from 5.5. Atm I only see 2 things
(installer and yum-updatesd), which doesn't seem to qualify as lots. Could
you let me know what else you're seeing missing?

-Matty


Actually, the installer encompasses a lot of what's missing. Things
like not asking for the registration number, not asking for installation
types, not giving me the ability to change authentication,
firewall/selinux, system services during the installation (via that
first boot menu). Missing ksh but installable. Forced TLS on LDAP
auth. Different LDAP auth files/locations. And the killer one for me is
still no boot.iso. There are probably a lot more I haven't encountered
yet but that is the majority of my notes so far.


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Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator

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inode0 11-18-2010 03:59 PM

Lots missing
 
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:47 AM, lcf004
<lincoln.fessenden@jefferson.edu> wrote:
> ... And the killer one for me is still no boot.iso. *There are
> probably a lot more I haven't encountered yet but that is the majority of my
> notes so far.

There are boot.iso files available to download in the usual spot. The
boot.iso is just no longer on the regular installation media.

John

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Matty Sarro 11-18-2010 04:01 PM

Lots missing
 
Hm, see the missing registration number actually appeals to me because in
our environment we have a number of RHN satellite servers. Basically most of
our configurations get handled by that and OpsWare so I don't think it'd
affect us a lot. Still, that would suck for places that don't use RHN sats
or any type of scripted installation.

As for ksh being uninstalled; I suppose they were betting on most people
using bash? At least its an installable option.

I'll have to check out the installation and see what its like. Thanks for
the reply!

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:47 AM, lcf004 <lincoln.fessenden@jefferson.edu>wrote:

> Matty Sarro wrote:
>
>> Out of curiousity, I appear to be missing other items missing. Were these
>> in
>> other emails on the list? I'm considering getting an eval of 6, and I'd
>> like
>> to see what else has been left out from 5.5. Atm I only see 2 things
>> (installer and yum-updatesd), which doesn't seem to qualify as lots. Could
>> you let me know what else you're seeing missing?
>>
>> -Matty
>>
>
> Actually, the installer encompasses a lot of what's missing. Things like
> not asking for the registration number, not asking for installation types,
> not giving me the ability to change authentication, firewall/selinux, system
> services during the installation (via that first boot menu). Missing ksh
> but installable. Forced TLS on LDAP auth. Different LDAP auth
> files/locations. And the killer one for me is still no boot.iso. There are
> probably a lot more I haven't encountered yet but that is the majority of my
> notes so far.
>
>
> --
> Lincoln Fessenden
> Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator
>
> --
> redhat-list mailing list
> unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-request@redhat.com?subject=unsubscribe
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>
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Barry Brimer 11-18-2010 04:03 PM

Lots missing
 
Quoting lcf004 <lincoln.fessenden@jefferson.edu>:

> Matty Sarro wrote:
> > Out of curiousity, I appear to be missing other items missing. Were these
> in
> > other emails on the list? I'm considering getting an eval of 6, and I'd
> like
> > to see what else has been left out from 5.5. Atm I only see 2 things
> > (installer and yum-updatesd), which doesn't seem to qualify as lots. Could
> > you let me know what else you're seeing missing?
> >
> > -Matty
>
> Actually, the installer encompasses a lot of what's missing. Things
> like not asking for the registration number, not asking for installation
> types, not giving me the ability to change authentication,
> firewall/selinux, system services during the installation (via that
> first boot menu). Missing ksh but installable. Forced TLS on LDAP
> auth. Different LDAP auth files/locations. And the killer one for me is
> still no boot.iso. There are probably a lot more I haven't encountered
> yet but that is the majority of my notes so far.

Red Hat does provide a boot iso in RHN. For (32-bit x86) servers it is called
rhel-server-6.0-i386-boot.iso and for (32-bit x86) workstations it is called
rhel-workstation-6.0-i386-boot.iso. Are you getting your media from RHN or
another source? Installation numbers appeared in RHEL 5 and was used to
configure the installer to allow you to use the packages you were licensed to
use. RHEL 3 and 4 didn't have this because they were packaged/sold separately.
RHEL 2.1 included the license for it but was installed separately. In RHEL 6
these are add-ons. I doubt it makes sense to have an installation number for
RHEL, and Resilient Storage and Load Balancing, etc. Forced TLS on LDAP while
it may differ from previous releases is a best practice. Sending unencrypted
credentials across the network is not a good idea. I've never had a problem
with installing software I need to use, and ksh is no exception.

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lcf004 11-18-2010 04:54 PM

Lots missing
 
Barry Brimer wrote:

Red Hat does provide a boot iso in RHN. For (32-bit x86) servers it is called
rhel-server-6.0-i386-boot.iso and for (32-bit x86) workstations it is called
rhel-workstation-6.0-i386-boot.iso. Are you getting your media from RHN or
another source?


I get it straight from RHN. I find it hard to believe that I have
access to all the installation media they have to offer all the way back
to RedHat 9 on every platform but I am not allowed to have the boot.iso.
However, it is _not_ there. If someone can actually see it, please
post a link to the RHN page and maybe I can get at it that way?



Installation numbers appeared in RHEL 5 and was used to
configure the installer to allow you to use the packages you were licensed to
use. RHEL 3 and 4 didn't have this because they were packaged/sold separately.
RHEL 2.1 included the license for it but was installed separately. In RHEL 6
these are add-ons. I doubt it makes sense to have an installation number for
RHEL,


I need to my new vendor supplied licenses are added into my volume
licensing via RHN. Since I installed RHEL 6 instead of 5, they aren't
registered, they don't show up under my licensing info for the
university and there is no way via RHN's website to get them in there.


and Resilient Storage and Load Balancing, etc. Forced TLS on LDAP while

it may differ from previous releases is a best practice. Sending unencrypted
credentials across the network is not a good idea. I've never had a problem
with installing software I need to use, and ksh is no exception.



The problem in a nutshell is this, and I am sure I am no real exception
here: I have long time developed post installation packages, scripts
and programs that set things up in standard ways to make RHEL
installations here usable for a standard subset of users. This new
release takes great pains to break what I (at least) thought was a very
well thought out standard set of packages and services that RHEL 5
provided. At this point I am still finding things that are missing and
broken as I plow through all this and the impression I am getting is
that for an enterprise ready release, it's not very enterprise ready.
For instance, people who do large volume server installs don't have time
to use the GUI tools to configure their LDAP authentication,
notwithstanding having to crawl around looking for why you can't auth
the way you need to. I am not opposed to installing packages either,
but there are some that certainly make sense to already be there that
just aren't, not that ksh necessarily is one of them, but pam_ldap sure
is and there are others I keep finding as well.


--
Lincoln Fessenden
Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator

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fred smith 11-18-2010 06:05 PM

Lots missing
 
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:54:05PM -0500, lcf004 wrote:
> Barry Brimer wrote:
> >Red Hat does provide a boot iso in RHN. For (32-bit x86) servers it is
> >called
> >rhel-server-6.0-i386-boot.iso and for (32-bit x86) workstations it is
> >called
> >rhel-workstation-6.0-i386-boot.iso. Are you getting your media from RHN or
> >another source?
>
> I get it straight from RHN. I find it hard to believe that I have
> access to all the installation media they have to offer all the way back
> to RedHat 9 on every platform but I am not allowed to have the boot.iso.
> However, it is _not_ there. If someone can actually see it, please
> post a link to the RHN page and maybe I can get at it that way?
>
> > Installation numbers appeared in RHEL 5 and was used to
> >configure the installer to allow you to use the packages you were licensed
> >to
> >use. RHEL 3 and 4 didn't have this because they were packaged/sold
> >separately.
> > RHEL 2.1 included the license for it but was installed separately. In
> > RHEL 6
> >these are add-ons. I doubt it makes sense to have an installation number
> >for
> >RHEL,
>
> I need to my new vendor supplied licenses are added into my volume
> licensing via RHN. Since I installed RHEL 6 instead of 5, they aren't
> registered, they don't show up under my licensing info for the
> university and there is no way via RHN's website to get them in there.
>
> and Resilient Storage and Load Balancing, etc. Forced TLS on LDAP while
> >it may differ from previous releases is a best practice. Sending
> >unencrypted
> >credentials across the network is not a good idea. I've never had a
> >problem
> >with installing software I need to use, and ksh is no exception.
> >
>
> The problem in a nutshell is this, and I am sure I am no real exception
> here: I have long time developed post installation packages, scripts
> and programs that set things up in standard ways to make RHEL
> installations here usable for a standard subset of users. This new
> release takes great pains to break what I (at least) thought was a very
> well thought out standard set of packages and services that RHEL 5
> provided. At this point I am still finding things that are missing and
> broken as I plow through all this and the impression I am getting is
> that for an enterprise ready release, it's not very enterprise ready.
> For instance, people who do large volume server installs don't have time
> to use the GUI tools to configure their LDAP authentication,
> notwithstanding having to crawl around looking for why you can't auth
> the way you need to. I am not opposed to installing packages either,
> but there are some that certainly make sense to already be there that
> just aren't, not that ksh necessarily is one of them, but pam_ldap sure
> is and there are others I keep finding as well.
>
> --
> Lincoln Fessenden

As for other things changed, as far as I can recall, this issue (below)
did not occur in RHEL5 or earlier...

My employer sells a product that is compiled for RHEL (currently 4, 5, and
soon to be 6), that requires uudecode at install-time. In past versions we
always found it in the sharutils package.

well, in RHEL6 it's still in sharutils, HOWEVER, sharutils is now in the
"optional" repository, no longer in the default repo, and as far as I
can figure out (by looking at the beta,... I haven't yet had a chance
to inspect the final release) sharutils is also NOT on the installation
media.

So, before our product can be installed, someone needs to go find the
optional repository and install the sharutils package.

Not what we had hoped for!

Fred
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I can do all things through Christ
who strengthens me.
------------------------------ Philippians 4:13 -------------------------------

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Vincent Van der Kussen 11-19-2010 06:47 AM

Lots missing
 
Hi,

The boot ISO is there, Just click on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server, Underneath that link there is a download link "Network Install and Recovery Disk"

Regards,
Vincent



Vincent Van der Kussen
System Engineer
direct: +32 3 369 01 93
Vincent.VanderKussen@btr-services.be

BTR Services
Groene Hofstraat 31
2850 Boom
Belgium
www.btr-services.be
tel: +32 3 450 89 80
fax: +32 3 450 89 89



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-----Original Message-----

From: redhat-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:redhat-list-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of lcf004
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:54 PM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Subject: Re: Lots missing

Barry Brimer wrote:
> Red Hat does provide a boot iso in RHN. For (32-bit x86) servers it is called
> rhel-server-6.0-i386-boot.iso and for (32-bit x86) workstations it is called
> rhel-workstation-6.0-i386-boot.iso. Are you getting your media from RHN or
> another source?

I get it straight from RHN. I find it hard to believe that I have
access to all the installation media they have to offer all the way back
to RedHat 9 on every platform but I am not allowed to have the boot.iso.
However, it is _not_ there. If someone can actually see it, please
post a link to the RHN page and maybe I can get at it that way?

> Installation numbers appeared in RHEL 5 and was used to
> configure the installer to allow you to use the packages you were licensed to
> use. RHEL 3 and 4 didn't have this because they were packaged/sold separately.
> RHEL 2.1 included the license for it but was installed separately. In RHEL 6
> these are add-ons. I doubt it makes sense to have an installation number for
> RHEL,

I need to my new vendor supplied licenses are added into my volume
licensing via RHN. Since I installed RHEL 6 instead of 5, they aren't
registered, they don't show up under my licensing info for the
university and there is no way via RHN's website to get them in there.

and Resilient Storage and Load Balancing, etc. Forced TLS on LDAP while
> it may differ from previous releases is a best practice. Sending unencrypted
> credentials across the network is not a good idea. I've never had a problem
> with installing software I need to use, and ksh is no exception.
>

The problem in a nutshell is this, and I am sure I am no real exception
here: I have long time developed post installation packages, scripts
and programs that set things up in standard ways to make RHEL
installations here usable for a standard subset of users. This new
release takes great pains to break what I (at least) thought was a very
well thought out standard set of packages and services that RHEL 5
provided. At this point I am still finding things that are missing and
broken as I plow through all this and the impression I am getting is
that for an enterprise ready release, it's not very enterprise ready.
For instance, people who do large volume server installs don't have time
to use the GUI tools to configure their LDAP authentication,
notwithstanding having to crawl around looking for why you can't auth
the way you need to. I am not opposed to installing packages either,
but there are some that certainly make sense to already be there that
just aren't, not that ksh necessarily is one of them, but pam_ldap sure
is and there are others I keep finding as well.

--
Lincoln Fessenden
Jeff-IT Linux Systems Administrator

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