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Old 03-16-2010, 12:44 AM
"Karl Pearson"
 
Default Package Manager Question

Hi all,

I use Fedora on my server (email, web, etc.) and have been using Linux
Mint on my desktop and laptop.

I've noticed something that has caused me to ask this question. First,
what I've noticed:

When I update a package using that package's 'Check For Update' feature on
the Help menu (Virtualbox is a prime example), Linux Mint, which uses
dpkg, the debian package manager, automatically updates the repository
indexes on my PC and shows the package installed when I run Synaptic.

I don't remember YumX ever doing this, or any other RPM front-end, or rpm
itself from the commandline. If I didn't install a package from the
repositories, rpm didn't know it was there.

Do you know if this has been "fixed" (if it's actually broken)?

I'm going to install a new server with CentOS soon, and have toyed with
the idea of using it as my workstation OS as well.

Thoughts?

TIA,

---
Karl Pearson
Karlp@ourldsfamily.com
Owner/Administrator of the sites at
http://ourldsfamily.com
---
"To mess up your Linux PC, you have to really work at it;
to mess up a microsoft PC you just have to work on it."
---
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have
for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
--Benjamin Franklin
---
Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually
repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
---

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Old 03-16-2010, 04:26 PM
Rick Stevens
 
Default Package Manager Question

On 03/15/2010 06:44 PM, Karl Pearson wrote:

Hi all,

I use Fedora on my server (email, web, etc.) and have been using Linux
Mint on my desktop and laptop.

I've noticed something that has caused me to ask this question. First,
what I've noticed:

When I update a package using that package's 'Check For Update' feature on
the Help menu (Virtualbox is a prime example), Linux Mint, which uses
dpkg, the debian package manager, automatically updates the repository
indexes on my PC and shows the package installed when I run Synaptic.

I don't remember YumX ever doing this, or any other RPM front-end, or rpm
itself from the commandline. If I didn't install a package from the
repositories, rpm didn't know it was there.

Do you know if this has been "fixed" (if it's actually broken)?

I'm going to install a new server with CentOS soon, and have toyed with
the idea of using it as my workstation OS as well.


What you're experiencing is standard yum practice. It doesn't know
about repos unless it has a config for it.

A config is a stanza inside a file in the /etc/yum.repos.d directory.
A stanza starts with the name of the repo in square brackets, e.g.:

[fedora]

Following that is a number of things which control how yum interacts
with the repo. One of the most important is:

enabled=[0|1]

If the stanza has "enabled=1", then yum will check and/or use it. If
it has "enabled=0", then it's ignored. Default is "enabled=0" for any
stanza that doesn't have it explicitly defined.

You can force a disabled repo ("enabled=0") to be scanned by adding:

--enablerepo=<repo-name-glob>

on the yum command line before any commands. Example:

yum --enablerepo=livna update

The standard way of checking for updates interactively is by doing a

yum update

It'll tell you if there are things that need updating. If there are,
it'll ask you if you want to do the update now. If you way "yes", the

the update process begins.

If you want just want to check for updates non-interactively (e.g. in a
script), use:

yum check-update

which will return a return code of 100 if there are things that need
updating, 1 if an error occurs and 0 if there are no updates.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 03-16-2010, 05:12 PM
"Karl Pearson"
 
Default Package Manager Question

On Tue, March 16, 2010 11:26 am, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 03/15/2010 06:44 PM, Karl Pearson wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I use Fedora on my server (email, web, etc.) and have been using Linux
>> Mint on my desktop and laptop.
>>
>> I've noticed something that has caused me to ask this question. First,
>> what I've noticed:
>>
>> When I update a package using that package's 'Check For Update' feature
>> on
>> the Help menu (Virtualbox is a prime example), Linux Mint, which uses
>> dpkg, the debian package manager, automatically updates the repository
>> indexes on my PC and shows the package installed when I run Synaptic.
>>
>> I don't remember YumX ever doing this, or any other RPM front-end, or
>> rpm
>> itself from the commandline. If I didn't install a package from the
>> repositories, rpm didn't know it was there.
>>
>> Do you know if this has been "fixed" (if it's actually broken)?
>>
>> I'm going to install a new server with CentOS soon, and have toyed with
>> the idea of using it as my workstation OS as well.
>
> What you're experiencing is standard yum practice. It doesn't know
> about repos unless it has a config for it.
>
> A config is a stanza inside a file in the /etc/yum.repos.d directory.
> A stanza starts with the name of the repo in square brackets, e.g.:
>
> [fedora]
>
> Following that is a number of things which control how yum interacts
> with the repo. One of the most important is:
>
> enabled=[0|1]
>
> If the stanza has "enabled=1", then yum will check and/or use it. If
> it has "enabled=0", then it's ignored. Default is "enabled=0" for any
> stanza that doesn't have it explicitly defined.
>
> You can force a disabled repo ("enabled=0") to be scanned by adding:
>
> --enablerepo=<repo-name-glob>
>
> on the yum command line before any commands. Example:
>
> yum --enablerepo=livna update
>
> The standard way of checking for updates interactively is by doing a
>
> yum update
>
> It'll tell you if there are things that need updating. If there are,
> it'll ask you if you want to do the update now. If you way "yes", the
> the update process begins.
>
> If you want just want to check for updates non-interactively (e.g. in a
> script), use:
>
> yum check-update
>
> which will return a return code of 100 if there are things that need
> updating, 1 if an error occurs and 0 if there are no updates.

I've been using yum for years, and like it, but that wasn't my question.
I'm wondering if yum has the same capability (yet) that dpkg has of
knowing what's been installed, even if it's done through the package's own
update process, like Virtualbox or any other package that has a [Help >
About > CheckForUpdates] feature.

Karl


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com -
> - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
> - -
> - I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got! -
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Redhat-install-list mailing list
> Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
> To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
> redhat-install-list-request@redhat.com
> Subject: unsubscribe
>


---
Karl Pearson
Karlp@ourldsfamily.com
Owner/Administrator of the sites at
http://ourldsfamily.com
---
"To mess up your Linux PC, you have to really work at it;
to mess up a microsoft PC you just have to work on it."
---
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have
for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
--Benjamin Franklin
---
Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually
repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
---

_______________________________________________
Redhat-install-list mailing list
Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
redhat-install-list-request@redhat.com
Subject: unsubscribe
 
Old 03-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Rick Stevens
 
Default Package Manager Question

On 03/16/2010 11:12 AM, Karl Pearson wrote:




On Tue, March 16, 2010 11:26 am, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 03/15/2010 06:44 PM, Karl Pearson wrote:

Hi all,

I use Fedora on my server (email, web, etc.) and have been using Linux
Mint on my desktop and laptop.

I've noticed something that has caused me to ask this question. First,
what I've noticed:

When I update a package using that package's 'Check For Update' feature
on
the Help menu (Virtualbox is a prime example), Linux Mint, which uses
dpkg, the debian package manager, automatically updates the repository
indexes on my PC and shows the package installed when I run Synaptic.

I don't remember YumX ever doing this, or any other RPM front-end, or
rpm
itself from the commandline. If I didn't install a package from the
repositories, rpm didn't know it was there.

Do you know if this has been "fixed" (if it's actually broken)?

I'm going to install a new server with CentOS soon, and have toyed with
the idea of using it as my workstation OS as well.


What you're experiencing is standard yum practice. It doesn't know
about repos unless it has a config for it.

A config is a stanza inside a file in the /etc/yum.repos.d directory.
A stanza starts with the name of the repo in square brackets, e.g.:

[fedora]

Following that is a number of things which control how yum interacts
with the repo. One of the most important is:

enabled=[0|1]

If the stanza has "enabled=1", then yum will check and/or use it. If
it has "enabled=0", then it's ignored. Default is "enabled=0" for any
stanza that doesn't have it explicitly defined.

You can force a disabled repo ("enabled=0") to be scanned by adding:

--enablerepo=<repo-name-glob>

on the yum command line before any commands. Example:

yum --enablerepo=livna update

The standard way of checking for updates interactively is by doing a

yum update

It'll tell you if there are things that need updating. If there are,
it'll ask you if you want to do the update now. If you way "yes", the
the update process begins.

If you want just want to check for updates non-interactively (e.g. in a
script), use:

yum check-update

which will return a return code of 100 if there are things that need
updating, 1 if an error occurs and 0 if there are no updates.


I've been using yum for years, and like it, but that wasn't my question.
I'm wondering if yum has the same capability (yet) that dpkg has of
knowing what's been installed, even if it's done through the package's own
update process, like Virtualbox or any other package that has a [Help>
About> CheckForUpdates] feature.


No. yum uses rpm's database to identify what's already installed and
the differences between that and data it finds in the repos that are in
its config for things that are "available".

Ideally packages should cooperate with rpm when they install, but they
usually don't. One could run an auxiliary database update I suppose,
but most tarball installs don't have a convenient "here's the list of
files I'm installing" that the scanner could use to identify what file
belongs to what package. Indeed, a tarball install stretches the
concept of "package" quite a bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Redhat-install-list mailing list
Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
redhat-install-list-request@redhat.com
Subject: unsubscribe
 
Old 03-20-2010, 06:10 AM
"Karl Pearson"
 
Default Package Manager Question

On Fri, March 19, 2010 11:42 am, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 03/16/2010 11:12 AM, Karl Pearson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, March 16, 2010 11:26 am, Rick Stevens wrote:
>>> On 03/15/2010 06:44 PM, Karl Pearson wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I use Fedora on my server (email, web, etc.) and have been using Linux
>>>> Mint on my desktop and laptop.
>>>>
>>>> I've noticed something that has caused me to ask this question. First,
>>>> what I've noticed:
>>>>
>>>> When I update a package using that package's 'Check For Update'
>>>> feature
>>>> on
>>>> the Help menu (Virtualbox is a prime example), Linux Mint, which uses
>>>> dpkg, the debian package manager, automatically updates the repository
>>>> indexes on my PC and shows the package installed when I run Synaptic.
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember YumX ever doing this, or any other RPM front-end, or
>>>> rpm
>>>> itself from the commandline. If I didn't install a package from the
>>>> repositories, rpm didn't know it was there.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know if this has been "fixed" (if it's actually broken)?
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to install a new server with CentOS soon, and have toyed
>>>> with
>>>> the idea of using it as my workstation OS as well.
>>>
>>> What you're experiencing is standard yum practice. It doesn't know
>>> about repos unless it has a config for it.
>>>
>>> A config is a stanza inside a file in the /etc/yum.repos.d directory.
>>> A stanza starts with the name of the repo in square brackets, e.g.:
>>>
>>> [fedora]
>>>
>>> Following that is a number of things which control how yum interacts
>>> with the repo. One of the most important is:
>>>
>>> enabled=[0|1]
>>>
>>> If the stanza has "enabled=1", then yum will check and/or use it. If
>>> it has "enabled=0", then it's ignored. Default is "enabled=0" for any
>>> stanza that doesn't have it explicitly defined.
>>>
>>> You can force a disabled repo ("enabled=0") to be scanned by adding:
>>>
>>> --enablerepo=<repo-name-glob>
>>>
>>> on the yum command line before any commands. Example:
>>>
>>> yum --enablerepo=livna update
>>>
>>> The standard way of checking for updates interactively is by doing a
>>>
>>> yum update
>>>
>>> It'll tell you if there are things that need updating. If there are,
>>> it'll ask you if you want to do the update now. If you way "yes", the
>>> the update process begins.
>>>
>>> If you want just want to check for updates non-interactively (e.g. in a
>>> script), use:
>>>
>>> yum check-update
>>>
>>> which will return a return code of 100 if there are things that need
>>> updating, 1 if an error occurs and 0 if there are no updates.
>>
>> I've been using yum for years, and like it, but that wasn't my question.
>> I'm wondering if yum has the same capability (yet) that dpkg has of
>> knowing what's been installed, even if it's done through the package's
>> own
>> update process, like Virtualbox or any other package that has a [Help>
>> About> CheckForUpdates] feature.
>
> No. yum uses rpm's database to identify what's already installed and
> the differences between that and data it finds in the repos that are in
> its config for things that are "available".
>
> Ideally packages should cooperate with rpm when they install, but they
> usually don't. One could run an auxiliary database update I suppose,
> but most tarball installs don't have a convenient "here's the list of
> files I'm installing" that the scanner could use to identify what file
> belongs to what package. Indeed, a tarball install stretches the
> concept of "package" quite a bit.

Indeed it does. I do some of those. The VirtualBox uses a .deb install, so
dpkg does know it's installed, and does update the database. Also, when
running Synaptic, it shows Virtualbox as having been installed, and the
updated version, even though that version isn't in the repository
database. That's what I wish Yum would be able to do.

Karl

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com -
> - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
> - -
> - Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. -
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Redhat-install-list mailing list
> Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
> To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
> redhat-install-list-request@redhat.com
> Subject: unsubscribe
>


---
Karl Pearson
Karlp@ourldsfamily.com
Owner/Administrator of the sites at
http://ourldsfamily.com
---
"To mess up your Linux PC, you have to really work at it;
to mess up a microsoft PC you just have to work on it."
---
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have
for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
--Benjamin Franklin
---
Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually
repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
---

_______________________________________________
Redhat-install-list mailing list
Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
redhat-install-list-request@redhat.com
Subject: unsubscribe
 
Old 03-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Rick Stevens
 
Default Package Manager Question

On 03/20/2010 12:10 AM, Karl Pearson wrote:

On 03/16/2010 11:12 AM, Karl Pearson wrote:
Ideally packages should cooperate with rpm when they install, but they
usually don't. One could run an auxiliary database update I suppose,
but most tarball installs don't have a convenient "here's the list of
files I'm installing" that the scanner could use to identify what file
belongs to what package. Indeed, a tarball install stretches the
concept of "package" quite a bit.


Indeed it does. I do some of those. The VirtualBox uses a .deb install, so
dpkg does know it's installed, and does update the database. Also, when
running Synaptic, it shows Virtualbox as having been installed, and the
updated version, even though that version isn't in the repository
database. That's what I wish Yum would be able to do.


Yum could scan all known databases, however it was designed to be used
with rpm and as such, just looks at the rpm database. Synaptic is a
"second generation" tool for use with dpkg- and deb-based systems.

You could extend yum to handle dpkg, deb, and any other "packaging"
system. It's just python, after all.

Not that I care for python...any language that depends on indention to
define loops and control structs should have its creator taken to the
woodshed. Didn't we have enough of that with Fortran and WATFOR 25
years ago?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, C2 Hosting ricks@nerd.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- "If you can't fix it...duct tape it!" -- Tim Allen -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Redhat-install-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
To Unsubscribe Go To ABOVE URL or send a message to:
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