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Old 08-19-2008, 07:32 PM
Curtis Hovey
 
Default to follow up on #42139

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 18:10 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:
> From https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/42139
>
> [quote]
> If a user opens a bug ticket, the package owners will be automatically
> subscribed to that ticket.
> But if s/he opens an Answer (actually a Question) the owner or Team
> wont be automatically subscribed to that Answer.
> In the case of Ubuntu, only those users who subscribe to the Answers
> mailinglist will get it, even if the package is indicated, loosing the
> chance of getting those who better know the package from help.
> I propose (after public discussion and with optional selection) that
> Answers automatically emails the team owner or maintainer of a
> package.
> [/quote ]
>
> Since a few comments bellow it was felt that discussion should be
> taken here, i'm posting to the list, and i'll wait on your comments

Package owners are not automatically notified about bugs reports or
questions. User who are Bug Contacts, BugSubscribers, or Answer Contacts
are notified. Package owners receive notification only when they choose
to be notified by assuming one of the roles mentioned. The package
owner, or the developers for that matter, are not necessarily interested
in these roles. Sometime community members are better suited. Each
project must find its own way of delegating responsibility; Launchpad
should not send users spam because it assumes or enforces
responsibilities with the project.

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Old 08-20-2008, 05:23 AM
"Daniel Hollocher"
 
Default to follow up on #42139

I started a project on launchpad, and I'm pretty sure that I'm subscribed to bugs by default.* Additionally, since its just me on the project, I have no need for these features.*

It sounds like that the Answers section is a feature designed for large projects.* It would nice to be able to turn it off for smaller projects, and have it off as the default for new projects.* That way, once the maintainer figures out who that person wants to be a question answerer, Answers can be turned back on.* Thats just me.


On a larger note, there are a growing number of support options out there, and its confusing which ones to use, and when.* There are mailing lists, IRC, the launchpad answers section, google, ubuntu.forums, the wiki, and I know some guys who are coding up a new support tool.*


I also used to use a site, ubuntuguide.org, which is possibly being cannibalized by the wiki.*

I personally find all these options confusing, and I hope that a wider discussion takes place in the future, that takes all these into account.


Take care,
Dan

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Curtis Hovey <curtis.hovey@canonical.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 18:10 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:

> From https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/42139

>

> [quote]

> If a user opens a bug ticket, the package owners will be automatically

> subscribed to that ticket.

> But if s/he opens an Answer (actually a Question) the owner or Team

> wont be automatically subscribed to that Answer.

> In the case of Ubuntu, only those users who subscribe to the Answers

> mailinglist will get it, even if the package is indicated, loosing the

> chance of getting those who better know the package from help.

> I propose (after public discussion and with optional selection) that

> Answers automatically emails the team owner or maintainer of a

> package.

> [/quote ]

>

> Since a few comments bellow it was felt that discussion should be

> taken here, i'm posting to the list, and i'll wait on your comments



Package owners are not automatically notified about bugs reports or

questions. User who are Bug Contacts, BugSubscribers, or Answer Contacts

are notified. Package owners receive notification only when they choose

to be notified by assuming one of the roles mentioned. The package

owner, or the developers for that matter, are not necessarily interested

in these roles. Sometime community members are better suited. Each

project must find its own way of delegating responsibility; Launchpad

should not send users spam because it assumes or enforces

responsibilities with the project.



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Old 08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Curtis Hovey
 
Default to follow up on #42139

Hi Daniel.

On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 01:23 -0400, Daniel Hollocher wrote:
> I started a project on launchpad, and I'm pretty sure that I'm
> subscribed to bugs by default. Additionally, since its just me on the
> project, I have no need for these features.

Launchpad encourages the development of communities by encouraging users
to contribute to your project when the opportunity arises. You are not
obligated to be the Bug Contact or the Answer Contact. Other users may
choose to take these roles. Only you can appoint an official Bug
Contact, but any user can choose to subscribe to all your project's bugs
or become an Answer Contact. This happens for many projects.

> It sounds like that the Answers section is a feature designed for
> large projects. It would nice to be able to turn it off for smaller
> projects, and have it off as the default for new projects. That way,
> once the maintainer figures out who that person wants to be a question
> answerer, Answers can be turned back on. Thats just me.

You can state whether your project officially uses Launchpad Answers by
edit your project's details. Deselect "People can ask questions in
Launchpad Answers" and you will see that Answers is removed from the
"Uses Launchpad for" section on the project overview page.

Even if your project does not officially use Launchpad Answers, users
may have questions, and other users may choose to provide answers.
Launchpad Answers is multi-lingual. Even if none of the project's core
contributors can read Arabic, a user can ask a question in Arabic, and
an Arabic-literate user can provide an answer. "Official" means that the
core project contributors recognise Launchpad Answers as the preferred
way to answer user questions; they still rely on volunteers to help
answer questions.

> On a larger note, there are a growing number of support options out
> there, and its confusing which ones to use, and when. There are
> mailing lists, IRC, the launchpad answers section, google,
> ubuntu.forums, the wiki, and I know some guys who are coding up a new
> support tool.

Indeed. I would also add that a great answer for version 1 of a project
may not be relevant for version 2. Each project needs to choose the
option that makes supporting user easy. Forums and mailing lists are
adhoc solutions for support, and are chosen because they are both simple
and familiar. Their weakness is that they are not specific to support,
they are communication tools. The same is true for IRC.

Launchpad Answers is designed to help users get answers to their
questions. It uses the Web like a forum, but Answer Contacts can choose
to use email like a list to communicate. Answer Contact can create FAQs
to answer user questions before they are asked. Questions can be linked
to FAQs and to bugs as needed. User often ask questions that are about
related projects; a question can be moved to the relevant project that
can provide an answer.

> I also used to use a site, ubuntuguide.org, which is possibly being
> cannibalized by the wiki.
>
> I personally find all these options confusing, and I hope that a wider
> discussion takes place in the future, that takes all these into
> account.
>
> Take care,
> Dan

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Old 08-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Matthew Paul Thomas
 
Default to follow up on #42139

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Daniel Hollocher wrote on 20/08/08 06:23:
>
> I started a project on launchpad, and I'm pretty sure that I'm
> subscribed to bugs by default. Additionally, since its just me on the
> project, I have no need for these features.
>
> It sounds like that the Answers section is a feature designed for large
> projects. It would nice to be able to turn it off for smaller projects,
> and have it off as the default for new projects. That way, once the
> maintainer figures out who that person wants to be a question answerer,
> Answers can be turned back on. Thats just me.
>...

You can turn off Answers from your project page by choosing "Change
details", then unchecking "People can ask questions in Launchpad Answers".

Did you notice this before? (Probably that checkbox should be on the
Answers page instead.)

> On a larger note, there are a growing number of support options out
> there, and its confusing which ones to use, and when. There are
> mailing lists, IRC, the launchpad answers section, google,
> ubuntu.forums, the wiki, and I know some guys who are coding up a new
> support tool.
>
> I also used to use a site, ubuntuguide.org <http://ubuntuguide.org>,
> which is possibly being cannibalized by the wiki.
>
> I personally find all these options confusing, and I hope that a wider
> discussion takes place in the future, that takes all these into account.
>...

Different people prefer to get help in different ways at different
times. Some people may want an answer to a simple question really
quickly, and be comfortable using IRC for this. Some people may be happy
using a Web forum, accepting that their question will be public forever
and that they may not receive an answer. And many people have learned
not to bother with software's built-in help, and instead ask their
friends or Google whenever they have a problem.

So multiple sources of help is not a problem, *except* when people are
forced into making an uninformed choice between them. For example,
Ubuntu 6.10 had a "Help" submenu with five items. This was awkward
because people had to choose between these items without any clue as to
which would solve their problem. Now, Ubuntu has a single "Help and
support" menu item. The Ubuntu Documentation Team continues to work on
incorporating redundant sources of static help into the main help site,
while the help front page does a better job of explaining alternative
sources of interactive support. The same approach can be adopted by any
software project.

Cheers
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:53 PM
Sense Hofstede
 
Default to follow up on #42139

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

(``-_-´´) -- Fernando schreef:
> Olá Daniel e a todos.
>
> On Wednesday 20 August 2008 06:23:30 Daniel Hollocher wrote:
>> On a larger note, there are a growing number of support options out there,
>> and its confusing which ones to use, and when. There are mailing lists,
>> IRC, the launchpad answers section, google, ubuntu.forums, the wiki, and I
>> know some guys who are coding up a new support tool.
>
> Ubuntu foruns gets about 300 new posts per day. The (english) ubuntu-users gets many hundreds new questions emails, plus replies per day.
> I once tried to be a Ubuntu Answer for a week and received 4k+ emails. I had to stop it, because i couldn't read it all.
> I cant even imagine how many users edit the wiki pages.
>
> But I still maintain that devs should be encouraged to be Answer Contact for the packages they maintain, as it happens with bugs.
> Am I the single person who thinks like this?
>
>
I do like the idea of assigning certian people to small bits of the
support questions. However, not all package needs that much support and
not all developers want or are able to respond to questions. Maybe it
would be a good idea to allow packages maintainers to assign certain
teams to their package in Answers. Another option would be that
Launchpad could support people assigning them to certain categories of
questions in Answers.

- --
Sense Hofstede
<http://www.qense.nl/>
<https://launchpad.net/~qense>
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:39 PM
William Grant
 
Default to follow up on #42139

(``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:
> [snip]
> But I still maintain that devs should be encouraged to be Answer Contact for the packages they maintain, as it happens with bugs.

No no no no no no no. I get enough spam from Launchpad as it is.

> Am I the single person who thinks like this?

Yes.

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