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Old 01-13-2011, 11:59 PM
"Jesús M. Navarro"
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

Hi, Andreas:

On Thursday 13 January 2011 09:19:35 Andreas Tille wrote:
[...]

> In short: The Debian maintainer is responsible that a bug will be
> reported upstream. I don't see a problem if he delegates the actual
> work to somebody else who is able and willing to do the job (but please
> be nice to the user when asking for this kind of help). Free software
> lives from cooperation.

Utmost wisely spoken words. My felicitiation.

Cheers.


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Old 01-14-2011, 01:36 AM
Ben Finney
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> writes:

> In short: The Debian maintainer is responsible that a bug will be
> reported upstream. I don't see a problem if he delegates the actual
> work to somebody else who is able and willing to do the job (but
> please be nice to the user when asking for this kind of help). Free
> software lives from cooperation.

That's a good summary of my position too, and well put. Thank you.

--
“Nature is trying very hard to make us succeed, but nature does |
` not depend on us. We are not the only experiment.” —Richard |
_o__) Buckminster Fuller, 1978-04-30 |
Ben Finney


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Old 01-14-2011, 07:43 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

On 2011-01-13, Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> wrote:
> In short: The Debian maintainer is responsible that a bug will be
> reported upstream. I don't see a problem if he delegates the actual
> work to somebody else who is able and willing to do the job (but please
> be nice to the user when asking for this kind of help). Free software
> lives from cooperation.

Hi Andreas. Would you like to be delegated to help reporting bugs in
packages maintained by Qt/KDE team upstream?

/Sune


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Old 01-14-2011, 08:29 AM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

[Jesús M. Navarro]
> If any, bugs you (properly) pass to the upstream developer are bugs
> that will cost you not a dime of your valuable time from them on.

You didn't read the rest of the thread, did you?

> If you understand what I said, good; if you didn't, please, make me
> the honour of considering me as an authority and act accordingly

No.

> If you don't like our parties, you are free not to come here. In
> other words: if you find Bacula to be too hard a package to deal with
> you are free to orphan it.

Why is it that none of the people who keep calling for everyone to
orphan their packages because they're not taking on enough of what a
maintainer is supposed to do, seem to be stepping up to maintain,
co-maintain, or otherwise help out with these packages that are
apparently so poorly maintained?
--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 01-14-2011, 08:36 AM
Peter Samuelson
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

[Jesús M. Navarro]
> > Dear Jesus. Are you seriously saying that
> > - the kernel mainatiners should step down
> > - the xorg maintainers should step down
> > - the mozilla maintainers should step down
> > - the gnome maintainers should step down
> > - the kde maintainers should step down
> > - the xfce maintainers should step down
> > - the openoffice/libre office maintainers should step down
>
> If they are not ready to take over their shoulders what it takes to do it
> properly, undoubtly yes.

> > And who do you think should step up ?
>
> Not my problem.

I grepped through the Sources file but couldn't find your name
anywhere, as maintainer or comaintainer. I guess that means when
you say it isn't your problem, you really mean it.

Got any more advice for those of us actually doing the work, while
you're here anyway?
--
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Old 01-14-2011, 09:11 AM
Andreas Tille
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 08:43:36AM +0000, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2011-01-13, Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> wrote:
> > In short: The Debian maintainer is responsible that a bug will be
> > reported upstream. I don't see a problem if he delegates the actual
> > work to somebody else who is able and willing to do the job (but please
> > be nice to the user when asking for this kind of help). Free software
> > lives from cooperation.
>
> Hi Andreas. Would you like to be delegated to help reporting bugs in
> packages maintained by Qt/KDE team upstream?

In case this is no intentional missunderstanding of my mail some
additional answer for you: In case I would report a bug against Qt/KDE
and you consider the problem concerns upstream and you (or somebody who
maintains the Qt/KDE related package in question) think that my
understanding of the problem is deep enough to have some reasonable
conversation with upstream about this topic - yes for sure, I would not
be astonished if you ask me to take over the job of forewarding exactly
this problem.

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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Old 01-14-2011, 09:32 AM
"Jesús M. Navarro"
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

Hi, Peter:

On Friday 14 January 2011 10:29:57 Peter Samuelson wrote:
> [Jesús M. Navarro]
>
> > If any, bugs you (properly) pass to the upstream developer are bugs
> > that will cost you not a dime of your valuable time from them on.
>
> You didn't read the rest of the thread, did you?

Yes I did. And I stay with what I said. It seems that passing info around is
wasting the maintainer's time because (so I assume, since there's no
indication implying otherwise) he is just acting as a man-in-the-middle.
Once he is able to reproduce the bug himself then he is not acting as the
maintainer in front of the upstream developer but as end user with a bug in
his hands. If that's not the case, well, I already stated what should be
done (basically, close the bug as "non reproducible here"). You did read the
rest of the thread, did you?

> > If you understand what I said, good; if you didn't, please, make me
> > the honour of considering me as an authority and act accordingly
>
> No.

Whatever.

> > If you don't like our parties, you are free not to come here. In
> > other words: if you find Bacula to be too hard a package to deal with
> > you are free to orphan it.
>
> Why is it that none of the people who keep calling for everyone to
> orphan their packages because they're not taking on enough of what a
> maintainer is supposed to do, seem to be stepping up to maintain,
> co-maintain, or otherwise help out with these packages that are
> apparently so poorly maintained?

Because, for whatever reason, they (me) are not debian developers, therefore
they didn't make their issue to maintain, co-maintain or otherwise help out
with these packages. Those opting to be or in fact being debian developers
do it.

That said, asking for help prior to orphan a package its maintainer is not up
to properly cope with by himself is certainly a valuable option.

Cheers.


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Old 01-14-2011, 10:11 AM
Iker Salmón San Millán
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

As new (sponsored) mantainer i have a few things to say about this thread.

First of all. If i receive a bug report, i do my best to handle it in the rigth way, i am in contact with upstream author and fortunately i have no bugs in my package. I personally don't care to forward bugs to upstream.** But i only mantain one package, and it's very simple to handle it.


But* i am also debian user (looks like some people forgets that DD, DM, and Contributors are also debian users),* and as a RESPONSIBLE user i also try to report the bugs i found where they belong.

Someone has said that this is comunity project and colaborate is the only way to handle it. Yes, BUT, again, some people think that only DD, DM, and Contributors have to colaborate and not only that, it seems that they are ONLY there to provide a service to the user.


If this is really a comunity everyone has to do his little effort.* Not only DD or DM.

I can underestand Jesus in a way, because time ago i received what i think it was a despective and bad response from a mantainer when i asked some help to adopt one of his packages.* But I also have received good words and a lot of help from others (one of them has responsed to this thread).


I used to be a really active member of forums but i get tired because i felt that users tend to use forums as a Service of attention to the client instead of a place to exchange knowledge.* I see now that it is not only a forums issue.*



2011/1/14 Sune Vuorela <nospam@vuorela.dk>



Hi Andreas. Would you like to be delegated to help reporting bugs in

packages maintained by Qt/KDE team upstream?



/Sune



I would be glad if i could help you in that (or any) way sune.* Unfortunately mi knowledge is not good enough as i would like to,* but anyway feel free to CC me some bugs and i'll see if i am ready enough to help in that way.


Iker
 
Old 01-14-2011, 10:29 AM
Sune Vuorela
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

On 2011-01-14, Iker Salmón San Millán <shaola@esdebian.org> wrote:
> 2011/1/14 Sune Vuorela <nospam@vuorela.dk>
>
>>
>> Hi Andreas. Would you like to be delegated to help reporting bugs in
>> packages maintained by Qt/KDE team upstream?
>>
>> /Sune
>>
>>
> I would be glad if i could help you in that (or any) way sune.
> Unfortunately mi knowledge is not good enough as i would like to, but
> anyway feel free to CC me some bugs and i'll see if i am ready enough to
> help in that way.

Any help is most appreciated, especially with handling the bug load. And
it really doesn't require any special skills for most bugs.

We have written a bit about what's needed here:
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/bugs.html

and feel free to contact me in #debian-qt-kde on irc.debian.org, (but
I'm away for the weekend, so please wait until monday)

/Sune


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Old 01-14-2011, 10:37 AM
Josselin Mouette
 
Default Forwarding bugs upstream

Le jeudi 13 janvier 2011 Ă* 11:54 +0100, Olaf van der Spek a Ă©crit :
> Instead of stepping down, it might be better to ask for a co-maintainer.

I hereby request a new co-maintainer for the GNOME packages.

--
.'`.
: :' : “You would need to ask a lawyer if you don't know
`. `' that a handshake of course makes a valid contract.”
`- -- J???rg Schilling


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