On Friday 09 May 2008, Derek Broughton wrote:
> That's simple - the majority of (k)ubuntu users apparently _still_ don't
> have all-you-can-use broadband internet connections, so that's the way the
> developers want it. *Technically, it is used preferentially simply because
> the repository has the same priority as the internet repo, and comes first
> in the sources.list.

I was always under the assumption (prolly a bad thing) that *everything* on
the CD was installed at normal install time. Is this not true? This
wouldn't include a lot of stuff... because if you're talking Gimp or
OpenOffice, you're talking a large amount of the space on the CD.

And the reason some tradeoffs and decisions are made is that there isn't
enough room on the CD to include all the things that people might like.

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On Fri, 09 May 2008 10:12:01 -0300
Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:

> Billie Walsh wrote:
>
> > On 05/09/2008 Neil Winchurst wrote:
> >> Also, on Hardy, FF is version 3 which has been causing some problems
> >> according to comments on the list.
> >
> > You don't have to use FF3b. You can install FF2 instead if you wish.
> > It's up to you which you use.
> >
> It's not up to you which one you get after the Adept upgrader is through,
> though. You have to reinstall FF2 if you want it. I really don't
> understand why they would push a beta on us.
> --
> derek
>
This is the sort of thing that decided me to install Gutsy as a
replacement for Edgy, instead of Hardy. I do have the Hardy CDs but
so far they have stayed in the wrapper.

Neil Winchurst

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On Fri, 09 May 2008 10:02:04 -0300
Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:

> Neil Winchurst wrote:
>
> > I agree with you, I will never choose Gnome. However, I don't
> > understand this business of 'they're not KDE apps'. I use the Gimp
> > for example, which I am told is not a KDE app. So what?? Am I missing
> > something again here?
>
> And you're welcome to install it - I'd be surprised if anybody who does much
> with images on this list doesn't use it - but KDE is aiming to be a
> complete desktop solution, so why would they install a product that
> everybody agrees is _not_ suitable for newbies, when they have their own
> product, krita, which is at least as good as you'll find preinstalled on a
> Windows system?
> --
> derek
>
You are the second one on this thread to mention krita. I must have a
look at it.

Neil

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On Fri, 9 May 2008 11:56:22 +0100
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday 09 May 2008 11:19:50 Neil Winchurst wrote:
> > BT have a lot to answer for.
>
> Or Maggie Thatcher, in this case. Way back in the mists of time, BT was
> intending to recable the country with fibre optic cable. Maggie vetoed it.
>
> Then came privatisation's focus on quick profit and competition, and BT too
> dropped the idea.
>
> Lisi
>
Well, for my money, BT has been a problem from the start.
Originally all forms of communication were run by the GPO (anyone
remember them?) including phones. It was a government company so they
didn't have to worry about profits, shareholders etc.

Then the government of the day split the GPO into two which became
Royal Mail and British Telecom. So now we had a private company
running the phone systems for the country. IMHO that was crazy.

Again, in my opinion, BT have been holding the country back for
years, which is the main reason that we are so far behind many other
western European countries. In France, so my friends tell me, never
mind 8 Mb broadband, 24 Mb has been around for years.

Neil

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On Fri, 9 May 2008 16:37:10 +0100
Neil Winchurst <neil@holsdev.vispa.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 09 May 2008 10:02:04 -0300
> Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > Neil Winchurst wrote:
> >
> > > I agree with you, I will never choose Gnome. However, I don't
> > > understand this business of 'they're not KDE apps'. I use the Gimp
> > > for example, which I am told is not a KDE app. So what?? Am I missing
> > > something again here?
> >
> > And you're welcome to install it - I'd be surprised if anybody who does much
> > with images on this list doesn't use it - but KDE is aiming to be a
> > complete desktop solution, so why would they install a product that
> > everybody agrees is _not_ suitable for newbies, when they have their own
> > product, krita, which is at least as good as you'll find preinstalled on a
> > Windows system?
> > --
> > derek
> >
> You are the second one on this thread to mention krita. I must have a
> look at it.
>
> Neil
>
I have just had a look for krita, and I find that it is not installed
as a default in Gutsy, so it is not just the Gimp which is missing.

Neil

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On Friday 09 May 2008, Neil Winchurst wrote:
> > And you're welcome to install it - I'd be surprised if anybody who does
> > much with images on this list doesn't use it - but KDE is aiming to be a
> > complete desktop solution, so why would they install a product that
> > everybody agrees is _not_ suitable for newbies, when they have their own
> > product, krita, which is at least as good as you'll find preinstalled on
> > a Windows system?
> > --
> > derek
>
> You are the second one on this thread to mention krita. I must have a
> look at it.

I just took a look at Krita and didn't find anything to do red-eye removal. A
fairly normal thing people will want to do. Did I miss it?

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Bruce Marshall wrote:

> On Friday 09 May 2008, Derek Broughton wrote:
>> That's simple - the majority of (k)ubuntu users apparently _still_ don't
>> have all-you-can-use broadband internet connections, so that's the way
>> the developers want it. *Technically, it is used preferentially simply
>> because the repository has the same priority as the internet repo, and
>> comes first in the sources.list.
>
> I was always under the assumption (prolly a bad thing) that *everything*
> on
> the CD was installed at normal install time. Is this not true? This
> wouldn't include a lot of stuff... because if you're talking Gimp or
> OpenOffice, you're talking a large amount of the space on the CD.

I don't think everything _is_ installed, but even if it is, people may still
remove and want to reinstall apps.
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Bruce Marshall wrote:

> On Friday 09 May 2008, Neil Winchurst wrote:
>> > And you're welcome to install it - I'd be surprised if anybody who does
>> > much with images on this list doesn't use it - but KDE is aiming to be
>> > a complete desktop solution, so why would they install a product that
>> > everybody agrees is _not_ suitable for newbies, when they have their
>> > own product, krita, which is at least as good as you'll find
>> > preinstalled on a Windows system?
>>
>> You are the second one on this thread to mention krita. I must have a
>> look at it.
>
> I just took a look at Krita and didn't find anything to do red-eye
> removal. A
> fairly normal thing people will want to do. Did I miss it?

Probably not - it's not a photoshop replacement, at least yet.
--
derek


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Neil Winchurst wrote:

> Well, for my money, BT has been a problem from the start.
> Originally all forms of communication were run by the GPO (anyone
> remember them?)

Of course - that's all there was when I left...

> including phones. It was a government company so they
> didn't have to worry about profits, shareholders etc.
>
> Then the government of the day split the GPO into two which became
> Royal Mail and British Telecom. So now we had a private company
> running the phone systems for the country. IMHO that was crazy.
>
> Again, in my opinion, BT have been holding the country back for
> years, which is the main reason that we are so far behind many other
> western European countries. In France, so my friends tell me, never
> mind 8 Mb broadband, 24 Mb has been around for years.

I'm no fan of rampant privatization, but whether you can get broadband has
got nothing to do with whether the phone system is in the hands of private
corporations or the government - most of North America has _always_ had
private phone companies and almost all of it is private now, and all of our
cities can manage at least 10Mbps. Don't you have cable companies? One of
the biggest reasons why we get decent urban service is that the cable
companies compete with the phone companies (which doesn't help me in the
middle of nowhere...).
--
derek


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