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Old 05-01-2008, 03:01 PM
Bas Roufs
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

Dear Everybody

In November last year I started transferring from Windows to Linux via
Kubuntu 7.10, Gutsy Gibbon. At present I do about 95% of my PC work via
Gutsy. After 20 years of Windows agony, my pleasure with Kubuntu Gutsy
gets bigger every week. About 95% of the problems I manage to resolve
myself so far. About 4% of my problems have been satisfactorily resolved
after consulting the Kubuntu or Ubuntu forums or a Friend/ Linux expert
here in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Sometimes I already manage to give
advises myself to others via the Kubuntu and Ubuntu user groups. At
present, there is only one major problem at daily user level I did not
yet manage to resolve: the on-board sound at my desktop, an HP Pavilion.
Below, I get back to that specific isssue.

At present, I am wondering when it could be a good moment in my case to
switch to one of the two(!) versions of Kubuntu 8.04, Hardy Heron. I do
not have any experience with a version upgrade within Kubuntu. That's
why, I kindly ask your advice. Below, I specify this request on detail
level.

According to kubuntu.org, there are two versions of the 8.04 release:
one with the 'stable' KDE 3.5.9 and another one with KDE 4.0.3. More
info: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/8.04-release.php
To be honest, I attach more importance to system stability than to super
brand new features. That is one of the many reasons I am marginalising
the use of Windows as much as possible. What about the future of KDE 4?
Will there be a more 'stable' release to be incorporated in Kubuntu
8.10, to be issued next October? Will it be possible to upgrade to 8.10
with KDE 4 from either Gutsy or Hardy in combination with KDE 3.5.9?

According to several messages I read on the Kubuntu and Ubuntu forums,
Hardy works with Firefox 3 - a version that is allegedly not yet
compatible with several add-ons that I use frequently - by example the
'Foxmarks' book mark synchroniser. This is the main reason I am
hesitating to transfer already now to Hardy. Does any one know when this
compatibility problem will be solved?

So far, I have understood that there are two ways to 'upgrade':
* installation 'from scratch', or ....
* 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration.

With respect to my DESKTOP: I am wondering which of the two ways of
'upgrading' is the best one. I made there a HOME+System partition of 15
GB only. I need to use different language versions of Kubuntu and Open
Office - that's why I have a permanent lack of space in that partition.
That's why I want to make that partition at least twice bigger. The
total size of the HD on which I use Kubuntu is 180 GB -so, there is more
than enough space for that. What is more easy, practical and safe:
resizing that partition together with an 'installation from scratch' of
Hardy or following a 'direct upgrade' from 7.10 via Adept? (See:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu )
I am perfectly happy to first save/ back up my data in case an
'installation from scratch' is better. In such a case, I am also able to
produce and use a 'Kubuntu files script' in order to get back all the
software packages I have been using so far.

With respect to the laptop: there, the size of the Home/ system
partition is already OK. So, which way to upgrade is best there?

One major daily use issue I did not manage to resolve within Gutsy: the
sound at the desktop, an HP Pavilion. Several times I carried out all
the checks and instructions at the so-called 'Comprehensive Sound
Problem Solutions Guide':
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449.
What is the best thing to do from this point of view: first trying to
resolve the sound issue, than upgrading? Or is it better first to
upgrade in the hope that the sound problem can be more easily solved
afterwards?

Thanks for your possible replies! Also partial answers to one or more
specific questions could make me happy.

Respectfully Yours,

Bas.



--
*************************
Viaconsensus
Bas G. Roufs M.A.
Van 't Hoffstraat 1
NL-3514 VT Utrecht
E.: BasRoufs@gmail.com
M.: +31.6.446.835.10.
T.: +31.30.785.20.40.
**************************

Rainbow News, views and visions: CircleLetterRainbow.net

European Rainbow Gathering in Serbia: Eurogathering.Rainbowinfo.net

Open source operating system: Linux - Kubuntu 7.10, Kubuntu.org



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Old 05-01-2008, 03:08 PM
"Geoffrey Bays"
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

Bas:

I upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy via Adept because it was easier, but
there have been issues with sound
and cdrom. Most of what I read on the forums suggests that a clean
install is the safer and better route to go
when you upgrade. I am fairly sure that my issues would not have
happened with a fresh install of Kubuntu Hardy.
See what others more experienced than I think about this.

Cheers,

geoff bays

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Bas Roufs <basroufs@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Everybody
>
> In November last year I started transferring from Windows to Linux via
> Kubuntu 7.10, Gutsy Gibbon. At present I do about 95% of my PC work via
> Gutsy. After 20 years of Windows agony, my pleasure with Kubuntu Gutsy
> gets bigger every week. About 95% of the problems I manage to resolve
> myself so far. About 4% of my problems have been satisfactorily resolved
> after consulting the Kubuntu or Ubuntu forums or a Friend/ Linux expert
> here in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Sometimes I already manage to give
> advises myself to others via the Kubuntu and Ubuntu user groups. At
> present, there is only one major problem at daily user level I did not
> yet manage to resolve: the on-board sound at my desktop, an HP Pavilion.
> Below, I get back to that specific isssue.
>
> At present, I am wondering when it could be a good moment in my case to
> switch to one of the two(!) versions of Kubuntu 8.04, Hardy Heron. I do
> not have any experience with a version upgrade within Kubuntu. That's
> why, I kindly ask your advice. Below, I specify this request on detail
> level.
>
> According to kubuntu.org, there are two versions of the 8.04 release:
> one with the 'stable' KDE 3.5.9 and another one with KDE 4.0.3. More
> info: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/8.04-release.php
> To be honest, I attach more importance to system stability than to super
> brand new features. That is one of the many reasons I am marginalising
> the use of Windows as much as possible. What about the future of KDE 4?
> Will there be a more 'stable' release to be incorporated in Kubuntu
> 8.10, to be issued next October? Will it be possible to upgrade to 8.10
> with KDE 4 from either Gutsy or Hardy in combination with KDE 3.5.9?
>
> According to several messages I read on the Kubuntu and Ubuntu forums,
> Hardy works with Firefox 3 - a version that is allegedly not yet
> compatible with several add-ons that I use frequently - by example the
> 'Foxmarks' book mark synchroniser. This is the main reason I am
> hesitating to transfer already now to Hardy. Does any one know when this
> compatibility problem will be solved?
>
> So far, I have understood that there are two ways to 'upgrade':
> * installation 'from scratch', or ....
> * 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration.
>
> With respect to my DESKTOP: I am wondering which of the two ways of
> 'upgrading' is the best one. I made there a HOME+System partition of 15
> GB only. I need to use different language versions of Kubuntu and Open
> Office - that's why I have a permanent lack of space in that partition.
> That's why I want to make that partition at least twice bigger. The
> total size of the HD on which I use Kubuntu is 180 GB -so, there is more
> than enough space for that. What is more easy, practical and safe:
> resizing that partition together with an 'installation from scratch' of
> Hardy or following a 'direct upgrade' from 7.10 via Adept? (See:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu )
> I am perfectly happy to first save/ back up my data in case an
> 'installation from scratch' is better. In such a case, I am also able to
> produce and use a 'Kubuntu files script' in order to get back all the
> software packages I have been using so far.
>
> With respect to the laptop: there, the size of the Home/ system
> partition is already OK. So, which way to upgrade is best there?
>
> One major daily use issue I did not manage to resolve within Gutsy: the
> sound at the desktop, an HP Pavilion. Several times I carried out all
> the checks and instructions at the so-called 'Comprehensive Sound
> Problem Solutions Guide':
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449.
> What is the best thing to do from this point of view: first trying to
> resolve the sound issue, than upgrading? Or is it better first to
> upgrade in the hope that the sound problem can be more easily solved
> afterwards?
>
> Thanks for your possible replies! Also partial answers to one or more
> specific questions could make me happy.
>
> Respectfully Yours,
>
> Bas.
>
>
>
> --
> *************************
> Viaconsensus
> Bas G. Roufs M.A.
> Van 't Hoffstraat 1
> NL-3514 VT Utrecht
> E.: BasRoufs@gmail.com
> M.: +31.6.446.835.10.
> T.: +31.30.785.20.40.
> **************************
>
> Rainbow News, views and visions: CircleLetterRainbow.net
>
> European Rainbow Gathering in Serbia: Eurogathering.Rainbowinfo.net
>
> Open source operating system: Linux - Kubuntu 7.10, Kubuntu.org
>
>
>
> --
> kubuntu-users mailing list
> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>

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Old 05-01-2008, 05:56 PM
"Michael Leone"
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Geoffrey Bays <charioteer7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bas:
>
> I upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy via Adept because it was easier, but
> there have been issues with sound
> and cdrom. Most of what I read on the forums suggests that a clean
> install is the safer and better route to go
> when you upgrade.

That's good advice when upgrading *any* OS, Linux or not. Ideally, do
a backup of data, then a clean install of your OS, then a restore of
your data/re-install of any other applications, as necessary. That
way, you're guaranteed not to bring forward any problems from the old
OS, or leave old drivers/binaries/etc hanging around, that may cause
issues.

Linux is just (usually) easier to actually upgrade OS versions,
keeping existing program installations and data, than other OSes.

--
Michael J. Leone
<mailto:turgon@mike-leone.com>

PGP Fingerprint: 0AA8 DC47 CB63 AE3F C739 6BF9 9AB4 1EF6 5AA5 BCDF
Photo Gallery: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeleonephotos>

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Old 05-01-2008, 06:12 PM
Sylviane et Perry White
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

On Thursday 01 May 2008 17:01, Bas Roufs wrote:

> To be honest, I attach more importance to system stability than to super
> brand new features.
(snip)
> So far, I have understood that there are two ways to 'upgrade':
> * installation 'from scratch', or ....
> * 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration.

IMHO installation from scratch is probably the "best" if you want a "cleaner"
system, because it will force you to reflect on what you want to restore from
your old files (back-uped) and it may not re-install by default all the silly
programs you once installed for a try before disregrading them. You will have
to recreate all your personal settings, preferences, internet provider...
OTOH 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration is muche easier.

My main concern is that both above methods have a risk; it is possible that
after upgrade you are unable to boot (or you boot OK but the screen does not
work, or whatever)
If you opted for the first method you probably thought of backing-up your
personal files, pictures and so on... That means you would still have the
option of reinstalling the old system or another one that works.
With the second method (assuming you didn't make a back-up) your essential
personal files may still be locked in a non working system and salvaging
them will require a lot of skill.
The fact that you have a desktop and a laptop makes it easier because you can
always ask for help from the other machine that works, but how long could you
do without the laptop?
The best thing to do (IMHO) is to have enough disk space and install multiple
systems on it, do a fresh install for the latests system and transfer your
files, see if it woks well and then your are ready for the next upgrade on
the first partition.

Perry

--
BOFH excuse #266: All of the packets are empty

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Old 05-02-2008, 07:48 AM
Xurxo Fernández Gismero
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

2008-05-01 (木) の 11:08 -0400 に Geoffrey Bays さんは書きました:
> Bas:
>
> I upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy via Adept because it was easier, but
> there have been issues with sound
> and cdrom. Most of what I read on the forums suggests that a clean
> install is the safer and better route to go
> when you upgrade. I am fairly sure that my issues would not have
> happened with a fresh install of Kubuntu Hardy.
> See what others more experienced than I think about this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> geoff bays
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Bas Roufs <basroufs@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Everybody
> >
> > In November last year I started transferring from Windows to Linux via
> > Kubuntu 7.10, Gutsy Gibbon. At present I do about 95% of my PC work via
> > Gutsy. After 20 years of Windows agony, my pleasure with Kubuntu Gutsy
> > gets bigger every week. About 95% of the problems I manage to resolve
> > myself so far. About 4% of my problems have been satisfactorily resolved
> > after consulting the Kubuntu or Ubuntu forums or a Friend/ Linux expert
> > here in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Sometimes I already manage to give
> > advises myself to others via the Kubuntu and Ubuntu user groups. At
> > present, there is only one major problem at daily user level I did not
> > yet manage to resolve: the on-board sound at my desktop, an HP Pavilion.
> > Below, I get back to that specific isssue.
> >
> > At present, I am wondering when it could be a good moment in my case to
> > switch to one of the two(!) versions of Kubuntu 8.04, Hardy Heron. I do
> > not have any experience with a version upgrade within Kubuntu. That's
> > why, I kindly ask your advice. Below, I specify this request on detail
> > level.
> >
> > According to kubuntu.org, there are two versions of the 8.04 release:
> > one with the 'stable' KDE 3.5.9 and another one with KDE 4.0.3. More
> > info: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/8.04-release.php
> > To be honest, I attach more importance to system stability than to super
> > brand new features. That is one of the many reasons I am marginalising
> > the use of Windows as much as possible. What about the future of KDE 4?
> > Will there be a more 'stable' release to be incorporated in Kubuntu
> > 8.10, to be issued next October? Will it be possible to upgrade to 8.10
> > with KDE 4 from either Gutsy or Hardy in combination with KDE 3.5.9?
> >
> > According to several messages I read on the Kubuntu and Ubuntu forums,
> > Hardy works with Firefox 3 - a version that is allegedly not yet
> > compatible with several add-ons that I use frequently - by example the
> > 'Foxmarks' book mark synchroniser. This is the main reason I am
> > hesitating to transfer already now to Hardy. Does any one know when this
> > compatibility problem will be solved?
> >
> > So far, I have understood that there are two ways to 'upgrade':
> > * installation 'from scratch', or ....
> > * 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration.
> >
> > With respect to my DESKTOP: I am wondering which of the two ways of
> > 'upgrading' is the best one. I made there a HOME+System partition of 15
> > GB only. I need to use different language versions of Kubuntu and Open
> > Office - that's why I have a permanent lack of space in that partition.
> > That's why I want to make that partition at least twice bigger. The
> > total size of the HD on which I use Kubuntu is 180 GB -so, there is more
> > than enough space for that. What is more easy, practical and safe:
> > resizing that partition together with an 'installation from scratch' of
> > Hardy or following a 'direct upgrade' from 7.10 via Adept? (See:
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu )
> > I am perfectly happy to first save/ back up my data in case an
> > 'installation from scratch' is better. In such a case, I am also able to
> > produce and use a 'Kubuntu files script' in order to get back all the
> > software packages I have been using so far.
> >
> > With respect to the laptop: there, the size of the Home/ system
> > partition is already OK. So, which way to upgrade is best there?
> >
> > One major daily use issue I did not manage to resolve within Gutsy: the
> > sound at the desktop, an HP Pavilion. Several times I carried out all
> > the checks and instructions at the so-called 'Comprehensive Sound
> > Problem Solutions Guide':
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449.
> > What is the best thing to do from this point of view: first trying to
> > resolve the sound issue, than upgrading? Or is it better first to
> > upgrade in the hope that the sound problem can be more easily solved
> > afterwards?
> >
> > Thanks for your possible replies! Also partial answers to one or more
> > specific questions could make me happy.
> >
> > Respectfully Yours,
> >
> > Bas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *************************
> > Viaconsensus
> > Bas G. Roufs M.A.
> > Van 't Hoffstraat 1
> > NL-3514 VT Utrecht
> > E.: BasRoufs@gmail.com
> > M.: +31.6.446.835.10.
> > T.: +31.30.785.20.40.
> > **************************
> >
> > Rainbow News, views and visions: CircleLetterRainbow.net
> >
> > European Rainbow Gathering in Serbia: Eurogathering.Rainbowinfo.net
> >
> > Open source operating system: Linux - Kubuntu 7.10, Kubuntu.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > kubuntu-users mailing list
> > kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
> >

I have been upgrading since feisty (dapper to feisty upgrade broke my
swap partition due to using UID to identify partitions). Sadly, resuming
from suspend doesn't work on my laptop in Hardy so I had to go back to
Gutsy. I don't think Hardy was stable enough for a LTS release so I'd
wait at least a few weeks.


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Old 05-02-2008, 08:43 AM
Bas Roufs
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

Dear Everybody

So far, four useful and quite clear answers have come into this thread -
thank you very much.

What is becoming clear to me is that the best option for the upgrade
from Gutsy to Hardy is a 'clean install' (install 'from scratch') after
taking some other measures:
* making a good back-up of all my data
* critically revising the software packages to be maintained and to be
removed
* making a 'kubuntu-files' script of all the software packages to be
reinstalled after the fresh installation of Hardy.

So far, so good. However, two important questions still remain:
* what is the best moment to try to resolve the sound problem on my
desktop: before or after the upgrade indicated above?
* what about the problem with Firefox 3, which is in Hardy, but which is
still unable to work with vitally important add-ons?

Finally, I have a few questions about your message, Xurxo:

> I have been upgrading since feisty (dapper to feisty upgrade broke my swap partition due to using UID to identify partitions).
How can prevent happening something like this? When having that problem,
did you 'install from scratch' (clean install) or did you use an upgrade
option via e.g. adept?

> Sadly, resuming from suspend doesn't work on my laptop in Hardy so I had to go back to Gutsy.
'Resuming from suspend': what does this expression mean in this case?


> I don't think Hardy was stable enough for a LTS release ....
>
'LTS Release': to be honest, the information about this issue is
confusing. So far I understood that Ubuntu Hardy is meant as 'Long Term
Support' however Kubuntu Hardy not. Can someone explain a bit more on
this issue?


> I don't think Hardy was stable enough ......so I'd wait at least a few weeks.....

This sounds realistic anyway.

On the other hand: if Hardy is still not 'stable' now, can we expect
that so-called 'updates' can sufficiently effectively eliminate the most
important bugs?

At this point I finish my message of this morning.

I don't think Hardy was stable enough


Respectfully Yours,

Bas.

--
*************************
Viaconsensus
Bas G. Roufs M.A.
Van 't Hoffstraat 1
NL-3514 VT Utrecht
E.: BasRoufs@gmail.com
M.: +31.6.446.835.10.
T.: +31.30.785.20.40.
**************************

Rainbow News, views and visions: CircleLetterRainbow.net

European Rainbow Gathering in Serbia: Eurogathering.Rainbowinfo.net

Open source operating system: Linux - Kubuntu 7.10, Kubuntu.org



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Old 05-02-2008, 09:45 AM
Steven Vollom
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

Xurxo Fernández Gismero wrote:
> 2008-05-01 (木) の 11:08 -0400 に Geoffrey Bays さんは書きました:
>
>> Bas:
>>
>> I upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy via Adept because it was easier, but
>> there have been issues with sound
>> and cdrom. Most of what I read on the forums suggests that a clean
>> install is the safer and better route to go
>> when you upgrade. I am fairly sure that my issues would not have
>> happened with a fresh install of Kubuntu Hardy.
>> See what others more experienced than I think about this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> geoff bays
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Bas Roufs <basroufs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Everybody
>>>
>>> In November last year I started transferring from Windows to Linux via
>>> Kubuntu 7.10, Gutsy Gibbon. At present I do about 95% of my PC work via
>>> Gutsy. After 20 years of Windows agony, my pleasure with Kubuntu Gutsy
>>> gets bigger every week. About 95% of the problems I manage to resolve
>>> myself so far. About 4% of my problems have been satisfactorily resolved
>>> after consulting the Kubuntu or Ubuntu forums or a Friend/ Linux expert
>>> here in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Sometimes I already manage to give
>>> advises myself to others via the Kubuntu and Ubuntu user groups. At
>>> present, there is only one major problem at daily user level I did not
>>> yet manage to resolve: the on-board sound at my desktop, an HP Pavilion.
>>> Below, I get back to that specific isssue.
>>>
>>> At present, I am wondering when it could be a good moment in my case to
>>> switch to one of the two(!) versions of Kubuntu 8.04, Hardy Heron. I do
>>> not have any experience with a version upgrade within Kubuntu. That's
>>> why, I kindly ask your advice. Below, I specify this request on detail
>>> level.
>>>
>>> According to kubuntu.org, there are two versions of the 8.04 release:
>>> one with the 'stable' KDE 3.5.9 and another one with KDE 4.0.3. More
>>> info: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/8.04-release.php
>>> To be honest, I attach more importance to system stability than to super
>>> brand new features. That is one of the many reasons I am marginalising
>>> the use of Windows as much as possible. What about the future of KDE 4?
>>> Will there be a more 'stable' release to be incorporated in Kubuntu
>>> 8.10, to be issued next October? Will it be possible to upgrade to 8.10
>>> with KDE 4 from either Gutsy or Hardy in combination with KDE 3.5.9?
>>>
>>> According to several messages I read on the Kubuntu and Ubuntu forums,
>>> Hardy works with Firefox 3 - a version that is allegedly not yet
>>> compatible with several add-ons that I use frequently - by example the
>>> 'Foxmarks' book mark synchroniser. This is the main reason I am
>>> hesitating to transfer already now to Hardy. Does any one know when this
>>> compatibility problem will be solved?
>>>
>>> So far, I have understood that there are two ways to 'upgrade':
>>> * installation 'from scratch', or ....
>>> * 'upgrade' while maintaining the whole configuration.
>>>
>>> With respect to my DESKTOP: I am wondering which of the two ways of
>>> 'upgrading' is the best one. I made there a HOME+System partition of 15
>>> GB only. I need to use different language versions of Kubuntu and Open
>>> Office - that's why I have a permanent lack of space in that partition.
>>> That's why I want to make that partition at least twice bigger. The
>>> total size of the HD on which I use Kubuntu is 180 GB -so, there is more
>>> than enough space for that. What is more easy, practical and safe:
>>> resizing that partition together with an 'installation from scratch' of
>>> Hardy or following a 'direct upgrade' from 7.10 via Adept? (See:
>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu )
>>> I am perfectly happy to first save/ back up my data in case an
>>> 'installation from scratch' is better. In such a case, I am also able to
>>> produce and use a 'Kubuntu files script' in order to get back all the
>>> software packages I have been using so far.
>>>
>>> With respect to the laptop: there, the size of the Home/ system
>>> partition is already OK. So, which way to upgrade is best there?
>>>
>>> One major daily use issue I did not manage to resolve within Gutsy: the
>>> sound at the desktop, an HP Pavilion. Several times I carried out all
>>> the checks and instructions at the so-called 'Comprehensive Sound
>>> Problem Solutions Guide':
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205449.
>>> What is the best thing to do from this point of view: first trying to
>>> resolve the sound issue, than upgrading? Or is it better first to
>>> upgrade in the hope that the sound problem can be more easily solved
>>> afterwards?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your possible replies! Also partial answers to one or more
>>> specific questions could make me happy.
>>>
>>> Respectfully Yours,
>>>
>>> Bas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *************************
>>> Viaconsensus
>>> Bas G. Roufs M.A.
>>> Van 't Hoffstraat 1
>>> NL-3514 VT Utrecht
>>> E.: BasRoufs@gmail.com
>>> M.: +31.6.446.835.10.
>>> T.: +31.30.785.20.40.
>>> **************************
>>>
>>> Rainbow News, views and visions: CircleLetterRainbow.net
>>>
>>> European Rainbow Gathering in Serbia: Eurogathering.Rainbowinfo.net
>>>
>>> Open source operating system: Linux - Kubuntu 7.10, Kubuntu.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> I have been upgrading since feisty (dapper to feisty upgrade broke my
> swap partition due to using UID to identify partitions). Sadly, resuming
> from suspend doesn't work on my laptop in Hardy so I had to go back to
> Gutsy. I don't think Hardy was stable enough for a LTS release so I'd
> wait at least a few weeks.
>
>
>
It sounds like we have similar experience and skill, however, I have
just done both of the things you ask about.

I fetched all updates and noticed the 'New Version' offering in the
Adept Package Manager in my home/studio computer. I chose both tasks
and had a successful upgrade. I have only noticed a couple of changes
in procedure so far, and they were simple to adapt to. On the other
hand, the fresh install on the computer in my work/studio is a fresh
install after a long download. The installation failed so far, and I am
waiting for a friend with more experience to help me.

My experience is probably not sufficient to make a decision, however, my
vote is for upgrade; it was much faster, and upon finish of install,
booted and worked. And, I have only found a couple of changes to deal
with so far. I hope this helps you in making a decision.

Steven

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Old 05-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

Bas Roufs wrote:
> What is becoming clear to me is that the best option for the upgrade
> from Gutsy to Hardy is a 'clean install' (install 'from scratch') after
> taking some other measures:
> * making a good back-up of all my data
> * critically revising the software packages to be maintained and to be
> removed
> * making a 'kubuntu-files' script of all the software packages to be
> reinstalled after the fresh installation of Hardy.

In the past I preferred clean install because I had lots of troubles when
upgrading Suse installations many years ago. After switching to Kubuntu I
tried a version upgrade and there was no trouble for me. Therefore I now
prefer upgrade instead of clean install.

As you will backup your data anyway to prepare a clean install, I would
suggest you also try an upgrade first and check if you have trouble. If
you have trouble, a clean install is still possible, but probably it
isn't necessary.

> So far, so good. However, two important questions still remain:
> * what is the best moment to try to resolve the sound problem on my
> desktop: before or after the upgrade indicated above?

After the update. Maybe the problem doesn't exist with Hardy.

> * what about the problem with Firefox 3, which is in Hardy, but which
> is still unable to work with vitally important add-ons?

You can uninstall firefox3 after the upgrade and install firefox-2
instead.

> Finally, I have a few questions about your message, Xurxo:
> > I have been upgrading since feisty (dapper to feisty upgrade broke my
> > swap partition due to using UID to identify partitions).
>
> How can prevent happening something like this? When having that
> problem, did you 'install from scratch' (clean install) or did you use
> an upgrade option via e.g. adept?

You shouldn't have that problem because Gutsy is using UUIDs already.
Furthermore, now the update-manager handles the UUID problem if you
upgrade from Dapper to Hardy.

> > I don't think Hardy was stable enough for a LTS release ....
>
> 'LTS Release': to be honest, the information about this issue is
> confusing. So far I understood that Ubuntu Hardy is meant as 'Long Term
> Support' however Kubuntu Hardy not. Can someone explain a bit more on
> this issue?

LTS means 3 years support for desktop systems. Due to the switch to KDE4
the KDE developers will not support KDE3 for another 3 years. Therefore
Canonical decided not to make Kubuntu 8.04 an LTS version.

> > I don't think Hardy was stable enough ......so I'd wait at least a
> > few weeks.....
>
> This sounds realistic anyway.

Well, I would like to hear WHY somebody thinks Hardy isn't stable enough.
Just stating the thought doesn't make it realistic. It may be true for
some people, but I have upgraded about 10 machines now to Hardy without a
problem.


Nils

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Old 05-02-2008, 10:13 AM
Xurxo Fernndez Gismero
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

> You shouldn't have that problem because Gutsy is using UUIDs already.
> Furthermore, now the update-manager handles the UUID problem if you
> upgrade from Dapper to Hardy.
Yeah, with UUID everything works ok. I had problem when moving from dapper to edgy but that was long time ago.
BTW I'm not sure if someone else suggested it already but having
the /home folder in a different partition is a good idea so if you have
to install from scratch at least you keep all your configuration files.

> > > I don't think Hardy was stable enough ......so I'd wait at least a
> > > few weeks.....
- Hardy broke suspend/resume on my laptop since they moved the resuming
scripts from /etc/acpi to etc/pm (at least on the gnome part). Keyboard
and mouse don't respond 25% of the times after resuming and there was a
workaround that doesn't work anymore (creating unbiding and binding
scripts for a module).
Missing firefox extensions but that's easy to solve with a ln -s
firefox-2 firefox in /etc/usr/bin
Broken japanese input using SCIM. Workaround is to move to
scim-immodules though.
I'm not sure if the suspend/resume issue affects the computer when
running kde though but since I use gnome too it's a reason strong enough
to wait.


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Old 05-02-2008, 10:26 AM
Xurxo Fernndez Gismero
 
Default 1. Newbie evaluation. 2. Gutsy>Hardy: request for advice.

> What is becoming clear to me is that the best option for the upgrade
> from Gutsy to Hardy is a 'clean install' (install 'from scratch') after
> taking some other measures:
I created a partition of 10GB for / and left the rest of the hard disk
to /home. Whenever I want to reinstall from scratch I just wipe out the
"/" disk but the /home disk is safe so I dont have to safe email,
videos, pictures, bookmarks or configuration files.
I upgrade edgy to feisty to gutsy to hardy without much hassle so
upgrading is fine. Since I'm having problem with suspend I decided to
wait a few weeks this time. In previus versions I upgraded when the RC
version was out.
> So far, so good. However, two important questions still remain:
> * what is the best moment to try to resolve the sound problem on my
> desktop: before or after the upgrade indicated above?
Upgrade first, then try to solve any problem that may arise. Maybe with
the new version it will work fine.
> * what about the problem with Firefox 3, which is in Hardy, but which is
> still unable to work with vitally important add-ons?
try this:
cd /etc/usr/bin
sudo rm firefox (removes the firefox link)
sudo ln -s firefox-2 firefox (create a link from firefox 2 to firefox)
then you have to go to your firefox2 folder:
.mozilla/firefox/ and then a folder with numbers and letters. You have
to remove the file extensions.rdf and you can use firefox2 and your
extensions again.
> Finally, I have a few questions about your message, Xurxo:
>
> > I have been upgrading since feisty (dapper to feisty upgrade broke my swap partition due to using UID to identify partitions).
> How can prevent happening something like this?
Upgrading is usually safe. If you keep /home on a different partition
the worst escenario would be to format "/" volume and install again. I
keep an excel file with the software I have installed and a copy of my
sources.list file just in case.
>
> > Sadly, resuming from suspend doesn't work on my laptop in Hardy so I had to go back to Gutsy.
> 'Resuming from suspend': what does this expression mean in this case?
You can suspend to ram or hibernate to harddisk when using laptops. I like it to suspend the ram when closing the lid.
>
> > I don't think Hardy was stable enough for a LTS release ....
Maybe that word was too strong. Hardy is stable but I lost japanese input and suspend and i need those features. japanese input is solved now though.
> 'LTS Release':
It's already been told but it's because of having 3.5 and 4 version at
the same time. Not a big deal anyway.

> On the other hand: if Hardy is still not 'stable' now, can we expect
> that so-called 'updates' can sufficiently effectively eliminate the most
> important bugs?
I shouldn't have used the word "stable". I missed some features, thats all.


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