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Old 04-29-2008, 04:26 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default ReiserFS

Michael Leone wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Bruce Marshall <bmarsh@bmarsh.com>
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 29 April 2008, Michael Leone wrote:
>> > Well, that was *8* years ago ... things change in 8 years, you know
>> > ... :-)
>> >
>> > Use whatever makes you happy, but basing decisions based on antiquity
>> > may not be the best way to go. I used to use ReiserFS way back when
>> > (up till about 3 years ago), and I never had that problem. I did have
>> > a drive start to die, and when I re-formatted it, I decided to change
>> > to a different filesystem, mostly because I could.
>>
>> If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (referring to my use of ext3 since 8
>> yrs ago)
>
> In which case, nothing ever gets upgraded to newer, or better (not
> that the two are not necessarily the same).
>
> :-)
>
> Just teasing. I use ext3 myself now, since it suits my minuscule home
> needs.

Indeed. I use JFS just because I can - while I had a bad experience with
Reiser, I suspect the drive was dieing at the time, so it probably wasn't
Reiser's fault. Ext3 is inefficient, but how many of us with our
single-user machines will ever notice?
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:07 PM
David McGlone
 
Default ReiserFS

On Tuesday 29 April 2008 12:22:50 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
> David McGlone wrote:
> > On Tuesday 29 April 2008 9:02:27 am Michael wrote:
> >> Derek Broughton wrote:
> >> > Michael wrote:
> >> >> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
> >> >> material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
> >> >> redistributed./

> You can't just post copyrighted material anywhere you want.

Why not? As long as the writer cites the source.
>
> > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
> >
> > I could have written my own definition, instead I quoted wikipedia and
> > cited my source.
>
> Wikipedia is different, since you _do_ have a legal write to quote it.

It was an example of citing sources.



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Old 04-29-2008, 07:19 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default ReiserFS

On Tuesday 29 April 2008, David McGlone wrote:
>On Tuesday 29 April 2008 12:22:50 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
>> David McGlone wrote:
>> > On Tuesday 29 April 2008 9:02:27 am Michael wrote:
>> >> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> >> > Michael wrote:
>> >> >> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
>> >> >> material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
>> >> >> redistributed./
>>
>> You can't just post copyrighted material anywhere you want.
>
>Why not? As long as the writer cites the source.
>
Please, re-read the above quoted notice. The power of copyright law is
universal according to the Burne Convention. Regardless of how you cite it,
it is still a copyright violation. Supplying the <http://etc.etc.etc> url is
not a violation because then the reader is reading the original, which is not
a copyright violation. You copied it, and that in itself IS the violation.

>> > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
>> >
>> > I could have written my own definition, instead I quoted wikipedia and
>> > cited my source.
>>
>> Wikipedia is different, since you _do_ have a legal write to quote it.
>
>It was an example of citing sources.



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Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
<LIM> mmmm, multitextured donuts....
<knghtbrd> LIM: with fruit filling?
<LIM> knghtbrd: chocolate cream...

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Old 04-29-2008, 07:24 PM
"J. Michael Morse"
 
Default ReiserFS

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> *
> *> Derek Broughton wrote:
> *>> Michael wrote:

> *>>
> *>>
> *>>> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material
> *>>> may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed./
> *>>>

> *>>
> *>> Does it make it alright to reprint copyrighted material if you post the
> *>> copyright notice that proves you stole it?
> *>>
> *> It is called citing your source. *

> *
> *No, it's called plagiarism. *Fair use does NOT include stealing the whole
> *article. *Just provide a URL and a summary.
> *--
> *derek

If I were writing a term paper, I would agree. *And even then, it still wouldn't be plagiarism.* Plagiarism is the intentional use of work that is not your own and claiming that it is. *No doubt, the professor would echo what you have just said - *summarize* and then cite the source. *So, I am guilty of improper citation.* However, there is a world of difference between stealing (plagiarism) and improper citation.


Needless to say, I won't be losing any sleep wondering if lawyers for Fox News will be banging on my door.*



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Old 04-30-2008, 01:08 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default ReiserFS

David McGlone wrote:

> On Tuesday 29 April 2008 12:22:50 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
>> David McGlone wrote:
>> > On Tuesday 29 April 2008 9:02:27 am Michael wrote:
>> >> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> >> > Michael wrote:
>> >> >> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
>> >> >> material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
>> >> >> redistributed./
>
>> You can't just post copyrighted material anywhere you want.
>
> Why not? As long as the writer cites the source.

Because _it's illegal_.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:11 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default ReiserFS

J. Michael Morse wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca>
> wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>> > Derek Broughton wrote:
>> >> Michael wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
> material
>> >>> may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed./
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Does it make it alright to reprint copyrighted material if you post
> the
>> >> copyright notice that proves you stole it?
>> >>
>> > It is called citing your source.
>>
>> No, it's called plagiarism. Fair use does NOT include stealing the
>> whole
>> article. Just provide a URL and a summary.
>
> If I were writing a term paper, I would agree. And even then, it still
> wouldn't be plagiarism. Plagiarism is the intentional use of work that is
> not your own and claiming that it is. No doubt, the professor would echo
> what you have just said - *summarize* and then cite the source. So,
> I* am*guilty of improper citation. However, there is a world of
> difference
> between stealing (plagiarism) and improper citation.
>
> Needless to say, I won't be losing any sleep wondering if lawyers for Fox
> News will be banging on my door.

Perhaps not, but I find it distressing - and blame OSS for part of it - that
people consider it perfectly alright to steal somebody else's intellectual
property without a second thought. What you did is theft. Citing it
doesn't make it right. Unfortunately, we're all so used to freely sharing
software and documentation - legally - that many people can't differentiate
between what they can copy and what they can't.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:50 PM
Eduardo Robles Elvira
 
Default ReiserFS

El Miércoles 30 Abril 2008, Derek Broughton escribió:
> Perhaps not, but I find it distressing - and blame OSS for part of it -
> that people consider it perfectly alright to steal somebody else's
> intellectual property without a second thought. *What you did is theft.
> *Citing it doesn't make it right. *Unfortunately, we're all so used to
> freely sharing software and documentation - legally - that many people
> can't differentiate between what they can copy and what they can't.

It's NOT theft. I'll let Thomas Jefferson explain it for you:

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar
character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other
possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives
instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at
mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread
from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of
man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and
benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible
over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the
air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of
confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be
a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson



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Old 04-30-2008, 02:06 PM
Ignazio Palmisano
 
Default ReiserFS

Eduardo Robles Elvira wrote:
> El Miércoles 30 Abril 2008, Derek Broughton escribió:
>> Perhaps not, but I find it distressing - and blame OSS for part of it -
>> that people consider it perfectly alright to steal somebody else's
>> intellectual property without a second thought. What you did is theft.
>> Citing it doesn't make it right. Unfortunately, we're all so used to
>> freely sharing software and documentation - legally - that many people
>> can't differentiate between what they can copy and what they can't.
>
> It's NOT theft. I'll let Thomas Jefferson explain it for you:
>
> "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
> which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
> himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
> of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar
> character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other
> possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives
> instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at
> mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread
> from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of
> man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and
> benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible
> over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the
> air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of
> confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be
> a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson
>

Good point but this is not about the broadcasting of copyrighted
material being right or wrong in absolute terms, this is about it being
legal. My guess about copyright laws is that they enable the original
source to say: thou shalt not broadcast this. Whether this is right or
wrong, it's still their legal right to say so. A wrong law does not make
legal to break it, a wrong law is reason for those who think it wrong to
stand and make their opinion heard, voting for the law to be changed or
otherwise acting, but breaking the law is breaking the law anyway. At
least this is my reading of how Thoreau describes civil disobedience;
that does not involve impunity if the law is broken.

I.

>
>
>



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Old 04-30-2008, 02:35 PM
David McGlone
 
Default ReiserFS

On Tuesday 29 April 2008 9:08:01 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
> David McGlone wrote:
> > On Tuesday 29 April 2008 12:22:50 pm Derek Broughton wrote:
> >> David McGlone wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday 29 April 2008 9:02:27 am Michael wrote:
> >> >> Derek Broughton wrote:
> >> >> > Michael wrote:
> >> >> >> /Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
> >> >> >> material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
> >> >> >> redistributed./
> >>
> >> You can't just post copyrighted material anywhere you want.
> >
> > Why not? As long as the writer cites the source.
>
> Because _it's illegal_.

I really don't understand where your train of thought comes from. Quoting and
citing sources is not illegal. Whether it may be copyrighted or not. If the
original poster claimed that what he posted was_his_own_words, then _that_is_
theft and copyright infringement.


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Old 04-30-2008, 02:36 PM
"Michael Leone"
 
Default ReiserFS

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Eduardo Robles Elvira <edulix@gmail.com> wrote:
> El Miércoles 30 Abril 2008, Derek Broughton escribió:
> > Perhaps not, but I find it distressing - and blame OSS for part of it -
> > that people consider it perfectly alright to steal somebody else's
> > intellectual property without a second thought. What you did is theft.
> > Citing it doesn't make it right. Unfortunately, we're all so used to
> > freely sharing software and documentation - legally - that many people
> > can't differentiate between what they can copy and what they can't.
>
> It's NOT theft. I'll let Thomas Jefferson explain it for you:

Here's the concept that you're missing ..

Doesn't matter what Thomas Jefferson thinks. Doesn't matter what
*anyone* thinks. It can still be illegal.

You, I, or Thomas Jefferson make think that it's wrong for it to be
illegal. That doesn't stop it from being illegal.

As to the actual quoting of the article contents ... while it *may*
technically be illegal (not being a lawyer, I have no idea if there is
some special exemption for quoting like that), it's a bit like
jay-walking ... yes, it's illegal. But you will very rarely get a
ticket for it (in the US, anyway), because it's such a minor thing
(and please - no need to bring up Arlo Guthrie; yes, I know he was
once ticketed for jay-walking, and this helped him get out of the
draft, because he had a "criminal" record).

So no, I doubt the New York Times is going to come prosecute you for
copyright violation, not on a mailing list, anyway. But technically,
Derek is probably right that it is illegal.

>
> "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
> which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
> himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
> of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar
> character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other
> possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives
> instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at
> mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread
> from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of
> man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and
> benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible
> over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the
> air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of
> confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be
> a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson
>
>
>
> --
> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
> depends on the unreasonable man." (George Bernard Shaw)
>
> --
> kubuntu-users mailing list
> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>
>



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