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-   -   Update to the Community (http://www.linux-archive.org/kubuntu-user/672015-update-community.html)

David Wonderly 05-28-2012 11:14 PM

Update to the Community
 
Hey everyone.

*

I know that it has been a while since I have made any updates to you guys.

*

Earlier this month, developer Jonathan Riddle and I were both at UDS (Ubuntu Developer Summit) and during that time we had a meeting with Canonical about the trademark. While not all of the paperwork is signed or finalized just yet, I wanted to update everyone on what happened and where we are at in this Trademark thing.

*

For starters, I know that there has been a lot of talk about changing the name of Kubuntu. As of right now there are plans to change the name. Any name change talks were to prepare for a worst case scenario. Seeing how well the talks went with Canonical, I cannot see any reasons we would change our name.

*

Another thing I want address and make very clear is the role Blue Systems is playing in Kubuntu.

*

Blue Systems is a small company that is paying people to develop key pieces of the KDE ecosphere. This means that their role is a monetary role. They are helping to sponsor the development of Kubuntu with the hiring of Jonathan Riddell. Kubuntu is still sponsored by Canonical as well.

*

Now I can hear everyone now, "But didn't they drop sponsorship of Kubuntu that started this whole thing?"

*

Sort of.

*

What Canonical dropped was COMMERCIAL support of Kubuntu. This means that companies can no longer buy paid support from Canonical for Kubuntu. It means that Jonathan Riddell was going to be reassigned within the Desktop Team at Canonical. And lastly, it means that Canonical will no longer be making Swag or Pressed CDs for Kubuntu.

*

Canonical still pays for a lot in Kubuntu. The hosting of code and providing the infastructer that we have, provides the iso spinning services, QA tools, sponsorships to UDS, Trakemark fees for 33 countries for the name Kubuntu (not just under the *buntu protection but, full on Kubuntu) and lastly, the legal protection for all of this.

*

So as you can see, our relationship has not chnaged all that much within the Kubuntu/Canonical relations. Yes, there has been some changes but, there are benifits to the changing as well and I firmly believe that the benifits greatly outweigh anything else.

*

There are talks about Kubuntu being able to create a non profit foundation to become a legal entity. This will allow the Kubuntu council to push Kubuntu to new heighths and also allow us to do a few very important things. it will allow us to build a Kubuntu store and it will also allow us to take donations, money to be placed in a budget and receive finactial support.

*

From a developers view, we are moving from the msin repositories and inti universe. This will give us more freedom of what we can include into our distro.

*

Overall, I think we can all see how much better and stronger we can be when this is all said and done. Working together, I am beyond confident that not only can we make Kubuntu the best KDE distro on the planet but, we can put Kubuntu on the map in very large ways.

*

Another amazing thing that happened is that Kubuntu was given an HUGE opportunity to push Kubuntu Active (KDE Plasma Active for tablet) onto actual tablet hardware.

*

ZaReason is a company here in the US that builds and ships computers with Linux, Ubuntu and distros, preinstalled. Later this year, they will be selling the ZaTab. It's a tablet with the same size and feel of the iPad2. It already will be shipping with CyanogenMod 9 on it. Well, we were given a couple of these tablets to development reasons so that we can also give them the option to ship Kubuntu Active 12.10 on them at the end of the year. This is very very exciting for us as it moves us ahead in the tablet ready distros.

*

If you have any questions please, feel free to ask them.

*

Cheers all!

*

Dave

*

*
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Ryan Gauger 05-29-2012 01:37 AM

Update to the Community
 
On 05/28/2012 06:14 PM, David Wonderly wrote:



Hey everyone.

*

I know that it has been a
while since I have made any updates to you guys.

*

Earlier this month, developer
Jonathan Riddle and I were both at UDS (Ubuntu Developer
Summit) and during that time we had a meeting with Canonical
about the trademark. While not all of the paperwork is signed
or finalized just yet, I wanted to update everyone on what
happened and where we are at in this Trademark thing.

*

For starters, I know that
there has been a lot of talk about changing the name of
Kubuntu. As of right now there are plans to change the name.
Any name change talks were to prepare for a worst case
scenario. Seeing how well the talks went with Canonical, I
cannot see any reasons we would change our name.

*

Another thing I want address
and make very clear is the role Blue Systems is playing in
Kubuntu.

*

Blue Systems is a small
company that is paying people to develop key pieces of the KDE
ecosphere. This means that their role is a monetary role. They
are helping to sponsor the development of Kubuntu with the
hiring of Jonathan Riddell. Kubuntu is still sponsored by
Canonical as well.

*

Now I can hear everyone now,
"But didn't they drop sponsorship of Kubuntu that started this
whole thing?"

*

Sort of.

*

What Canonical dropped was
COMMERCIAL support of Kubuntu. This means that companies can
no longer buy paid support from Canonical for Kubuntu. It
means that Jonathan Riddell was going to be reassigned within
the Desktop Team at Canonical. And lastly, it means that
Canonical will no longer be making Swag or Pressed CDs for
Kubuntu.

*

Canonical still pays for a lot
in Kubuntu. The hosting of code and providing the infastructer
that we have, provides the iso spinning services, QA tools,
sponsorships to UDS, Trakemark fees for 33 countries for the
name Kubuntu (not just under the *buntu protection but, full
on Kubuntu) and lastly, the legal protection for all of this.

*

So as you can see, our
relationship has not chnaged all that much within the
Kubuntu/Canonical relations. Yes, there has been some changes
but, there are benifits to the changing as well and I firmly
believe that the benifits greatly outweigh anything else.

*

There are talks about Kubuntu
being able to create a non profit foundation to become a legal
entity. This will allow the Kubuntu council to push Kubuntu to
new heighths and also allow us to do a few very important
things. it will allow us to build a Kubuntu store and it will
also allow us to take donations, money to be placed in a
budget and receive finactial support.

*

From a developers view, we are
moving from the msin repositories and inti universe. This will
give us more freedom of what we can include into our distro.

*

Overall, I think we can all
see how much better and stronger we can be when this is all
said and done. Working together, I am beyond confident that
not only can we make Kubuntu the best KDE distro on the planet
but, we can put Kubuntu on the map in very large ways.

*

Another amazing thing that
happened is that Kubuntu was given an HUGE opportunity to push
Kubuntu Active (KDE Plasma Active for tablet) onto actual
tablet hardware.

*

ZaReason is a company here in
the US that builds and ships computers with Linux, Ubuntu and
distros, preinstalled. Later this year, they will be selling
the ZaTab. It's a tablet with the same size and feel of the
iPad2. It already will be shipping with CyanogenMod 9 on it.
Well, we were given a couple of these tablets to development
reasons so that we can also give them the option to ship
Kubuntu Active 12.10 on them at the end of the year. This is
very very exciting for us as it moves us ahead in the tablet
ready distros.

*

If you have any questions
please, feel free to ask them.

*

Cheers all!

*

Dave

*

*







Does this mean that I will no longer be able to purchase Kubuntu
pens/stickers/shirts in the Canonical Store as well? If not, I'm
glad I bought some Kubuntu merchandise already! Thanks!



--
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kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
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"Juan R. de Silva" 05-30-2012 03:34 AM

Update to the Community
 
On Mon, 28 May 2012 20:37:43 -0500, Ryan Gauger wrote:

> On 05/28/2012 06:14 PM, David Wonderly wrote:
>>
>> Hey everyone.
>>
>> I know that it has been a while since I have made any updates to you
>> guys.
>>
>> Earlier this month, developer Jonathan Riddle and I were both at UDS
>> (Ubuntu Developer Summit) and during that time we had a meeting with
>> Canonical about the trademark. While not all of the paperwork is signed
>> or finalized just yet, I wanted to update everyone on what happened and
>> where we are at in this Trademark thing.
>>
>> For starters, I know that there has been a lot of talk about changing
>> the name of Kubuntu. As of right now there are plans to change the
>> name. Any name change talks were to prepare for a worst case scenario.
>> Seeing how well the talks went with Canonical, I cannot see any reasons
>> we would change our name.
>>
>> Another thing I want address and make very clear is the role Blue
>> Systems is playing in Kubuntu.
>>
>> Blue Systems is a small company that is paying people to develop key
>> pieces of the KDE ecosphere. This means that their role is a monetary
>> role. They are helping to sponsor the development of Kubuntu with the
>> hiring of Jonathan Riddell. Kubuntu is still sponsored by Canonical as
>> well.
>>
>> Now I can hear everyone now, "But didn't they drop sponsorship of
>> Kubuntu that started this whole thing?"
>>
>> Sort of.
>>
>> What Canonical dropped was COMMERCIAL support of Kubuntu. This means
>> that companies can no longer buy paid support from Canonical for
>> Kubuntu. It means that Jonathan Riddell was going to be reassigned
>> within the Desktop Team at Canonical. And lastly, it means that
>> Canonical will no longer be making Swag or Pressed CDs for Kubuntu.
>>
>> Canonical still pays for a lot in Kubuntu. The hosting of code and
>> providing the infastructer that we have, provides the iso spinning
>> services, QA tools, sponsorships to UDS, Trakemark fees for 33
>> countries for the name Kubuntu (not just under the *buntu protection
>> but, full on Kubuntu) and lastly, the legal protection for all of this.
>>
>> So as you can see, our relationship has not chnaged all that much
>> within the Kubuntu/Canonical relations. Yes, there has been some
>> changes but, there are benifits to the changing as well and I firmly
>> believe that the benifits greatly outweigh anything else.
>>
>> There are talks about Kubuntu being able to create a non profit
>> foundation to become a legal entity. This will allow the Kubuntu
>> council to push Kubuntu to new heighths and also allow us to do a few
>> very important things. it will allow us to build a Kubuntu store and it
>> will also allow us to take donations, money to be placed in a budget
>> and receive finactial support.
>>
>> From a developers view, we are moving from the msin repositories and
>> inti universe. This will give us more freedom of what we can include
>> into our distro.
>>
>> Overall, I think we can all see how much better and stronger we can be
>> when this is all said and done. Working together, I am beyond confident
>> that not only can we make Kubuntu the best KDE distro on the planet
>> but, we can put Kubuntu on the map in very large ways.
>>
>> Another amazing thing that happened is that Kubuntu was given an HUGE
>> opportunity to push Kubuntu Active (KDE Plasma Active for tablet) onto
>> actual tablet hardware.
>>
>> ZaReason is a company here in the US that builds and ships computers
>> with Linux, Ubuntu and distros, preinstalled. Later this year, they
>> will be selling the ZaTab. It's a tablet with the same size and feel of
>> the iPad2. It already will be shipping with CyanogenMod 9 on it. Well,
>> we were given a couple of these tablets to development reasons so that
>> we can also give them the option to ship Kubuntu Active 12.10 on them
>> at the end of the year. This is very very exciting for us as it moves
>> us ahead in the tablet ready distros.
>>
>> If you have any questions please, feel free to ask them.
>>
>> Cheers all!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
> Does this mean that I will no longer be able to purchase Kubuntu
> pens/stickers/shirts in the Canonical Store as well? If not, I'm glad I
> bought some Kubuntu merchandise already! Thanks! <html>
> <head>
> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
> http-equiv="Content-Type">
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
> On 05/28/2012 06:14 PM, David Wonderly wrote: <blockquote
> cite="mid:1679029.OkPhZlXy5K@wing" type="cite">
> <meta name="qrichtext" content="1">
> <style type="text/css">
> p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
> </style>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Hey everyone.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">I know that it has been a
> while since I have made any updates to you guys.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Earlier this month, developer
> Jonathan Riddle and I were both at UDS (Ubuntu Developer
> Summit) and during that time we had a meeting with Canonical
> about the trademark. While not all of the paperwork is signed
> or finalized just yet, I wanted to update everyone on what
> happened and where we are at in this Trademark
> thing.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">For starters, I know that
> there has been a lot of talk about changing the name of
> Kubuntu. As of right now there are plans to change the name.
> Any name change talks were to prepare for a worst case
> scenario. Seeing how well the talks went with Canonical, I
> cannot see any reasons we would change our name.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Another thing I want address
> and make very clear is the role Blue Systems is playing in
> Kubuntu.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Blue Systems is a small
> company that is paying people to develop key pieces of the KDE
> ecosphere. This means that their role is a monetary role. They
> are helping to sponsor the development of Kubuntu with the
> hiring of Jonathan Riddell. Kubuntu is still sponsored by
> Canonical as well. </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Now I can hear everyone now,
> "But didn't they drop sponsorship of Kubuntu that started this
> whole thing?" </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Sort of.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">What Canonical dropped was
> COMMERCIAL support of Kubuntu. This means that companies can
> no longer buy paid support from Canonical for Kubuntu. It
> means that Jonathan Riddell was going to be reassigned within
> the Desktop Team at Canonical. And lastly, it means that
> Canonical will no longer be making Swag or Pressed CDs for
> Kubuntu.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Canonical still pays for a lot
> in Kubuntu. The hosting of code and providing the infastructer
> that we have, provides the iso spinning services, QA tools,
> sponsorships to UDS, Trakemark fees for 33 countries for the
> name Kubuntu (not just under the *buntu protection but, full
> on Kubuntu) and lastly, the legal protection for all of
> this.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">So as you can see, our
> relationship has not chnaged all that much within the
> Kubuntu/Canonical relations. Yes, there has been some changes
> but, there are benifits to the changing as well and I firmly
> believe that the benifits greatly outweigh anything
> else.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">There are talks about Kubuntu
> being able to create a non profit foundation to become a legal
> entity. This will allow the Kubuntu council to push Kubuntu to
> new heighths and also allow us to do a few very important
> things. it will allow us to build a Kubuntu store and it will
> also allow us to take donations, money to be placed in a
> budget and receive finactial support. </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">From a developers view, we are
> moving from the msin repositories and inti universe. This will
> give us more freedom of what we can include into our distro.
> </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Overall, I think we can all
> see how much better and stronger we can be when this is all
> said and done. Working together, I am beyond confident that
> not only can we make Kubuntu the best KDE distro on the planet
> but, we can put Kubuntu on the map in very large
> ways.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Another amazing thing that
> happened is that Kubuntu was given an HUGE opportunity to push
> Kubuntu Active (KDE Plasma Active for tablet) onto actual
> tablet hardware. </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">ZaReason is a company here in
> the US that builds and ships computers with Linux, Ubuntu and
> distros, preinstalled. Later this year, they will be selling
> the ZaTab. It's a tablet with the same size and feel of the
> iPad2. It already will be shipping with CyanogenMod 9 on it.
> Well, we were given a couple of these tablets to development
> reasons so that we can also give them the option to ship
> Kubuntu Active 12.10 on them at the end of the year. This is
> very very exciting for us as it moves us ahead in the tablet
> ready distros. </span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">If you have any questions
> please, feel free to ask them.</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Cheers all!</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px;
> margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;
> -qt-user-state:0;"><span style=" font-family:'Times New Roman';
> font-size:12pt; color:#000000;">Dave</span></p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px;
> margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px;
> -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; ">&nbsp;</p>
> <br>
> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br>
> </blockquote>
> Does this mean that I will no longer be able to purchase Kubuntu
> pens/stickers/shirts in the Canonical Store as well? If not, I'm
> glad I bought some Kubuntu merchandise already! Thanks!<br>
> </body>
> </html>

I wonder if it is really so difficult to stop posting in HTML? It's quite
impossible to read your posts.

Basically you hurt yourself, since a lot of Linux users just ignore such
posts.

Thank you.



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Basil Chupin 05-30-2012 07:01 AM

Update to the Community
 
On 30/05/12 13:34, Juan R. de Silva wrote:

[.............]



I wonder if it is really so difficult to stop posting in HTML? It's quite
impossible to read your posts.

Basically you hurt yourself, since a lot of Linux users just ignore such
posts.

Thank you.


ROFL!

Luv it! :-D .

So concerned you are about it that you then go ahead and quote in full
not only the original post but also the reply to it in HTML format!


BC

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Steve Riley 05-30-2012 05:14 PM

Update to the Community
 
On 2012-05-30 17:01:18 Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> So concerned you are about it that you then go ahead and quote in full
> not only the original post but also the reply to it in HTML format!

The following is not directed to any one person specifically.

People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet journey
adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the then-popular
Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do with the limited
storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times. Contributors to email and
news threads parsed messages, carefully pruning and grafting elements so that
only the necessary parts were carried through to maintain the conversation
flow.

Other people began their Internet journey differently. Mostly, these folk
initially gained their computer experience using internal corporate systems,
where storage and bandwidth were less of a concern. The tools themselves
(yeah, I mean Outlook and Notes) adopted a different pattern. Top-posting and
reply-all was (and is) useful in corporate settings. The ability to apply text
formatting is also useful. Naturally, these people brought their behavior to
the Internet when corporate networks and the Internet converged.

Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to expect
everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to format
messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes. In fact, it
comes across as elitist and alienating.

If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators appear
convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles might find their
way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way to this email list.
They will bring with them habits gained from years of doing things the Windows
way. Are these habits in some manner wrong? No, of course not. They're just
different. We, then, are faced with a choice: we can either welcome them to the
wonderful world that is community-driven free software, or we can drive them
away. Let's not drive them away.

...Steve Riley
...administrator, Kubuntu Forums


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Clay Weber 05-30-2012 05:37 PM

Update to the Community
 
While I do agree with you in general, there are reasons for this etiquette that have their basis more on efficiency and usability.



What we need to do is be friendlier about it, point folks to the guidelines a friendly manner

http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists

while maintaining a level of overall friendliness.





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Steve Riley <stvrly@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2012-05-30 17:01:18 Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> So concerned you are about it that you then go ahead and quote in full
> not only the original post but also the reply to it in HTML format!

The following is not directed to any one person specifically.

People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet journey
adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the then-popular
Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do with the limited
storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times. Contributors to email and
news threads parsed messages, carefully pruning and grafting elements so that
only the necessary parts were carried through to maintain the conversation
flow.

Other people began their Internet journey differently. Mostly, these folk
initially gained their computer experience using internal corporate systems,
where storage and bandwidth were less of a concern. The tools themselves
(yeah, I mean Outlook and Notes) adopted a different pattern. Top-posting and
reply-all was (and is) useful in corporate settings. The ability to apply text
formatting is also useful. Naturally, these people brought their behavior to
the Internet when corporate networks and the Internet converged.

Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to expect
everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to format
messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes. In fact, it
comes across as elitist and alienating.

If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators appear
convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles might find their
way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way to this email list.
They will bring with them habits gained from years of doing things the Windows
way. Are these habits in some manner wrong? No, of course not. They're just
different. We, then, are faced with a choice: we can either welcome them to the
wonderful world that is community-driven free software, or we can drive them
away. Let's not drive them away.

...Steve Riley
...administrator, Kubuntu Forums


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"Juan R. de Silva" 05-30-2012 05:39 PM

Update to the Community
 
> ROFL!
>
> Luv it! :-D .
>
> So concerned you are about it that you then go ahead and quote in full
> not only the original post but also the reply to it in HTML format!
>
> BC

I did it intentionally to show how "easy" would be both to read and to
post an answer - one would need to trim out all HTML.

Your reaction shows I achieved the desired result. :-)



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Clay Weber 05-30-2012 05:44 PM

Update to the Community
 
Clay Weber <clay@claydoh.com> wrote:
While I do agree with you in general, there are reasons for this etiquette that have their basis more on efficiency and usability.



What we need to do is be friendlier about it, point folks to the guidelines a friendly manner

http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists

while maintaining a level of overall friendliness.





--

Clay Weber

Steve Riley <stvrly@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2012-05-30 17:01:18 Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> So concerned you are about it that you then go ahead and quote in full
> not only the original post but also the reply to it in HTML format!

The following is not directed to any one person specifically.

People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet journey
adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the then-popular
Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do with the limited
storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times. Contributors to email and
news threads parsed messages, carefully pruning and grafting elements so that
only the necessary parts were carried through to maintain the conversation
flow.

Other people began their Internet journey differently. Mostly, these folk
initially gained their computer experience using internal corporate systems,
where storage and bandwidth were less of a concern. The tools themselves
(yeah, I mean Outlook and Notes) adopted a different pattern. Top-posting and
reply-all was (and is) useful in corporate settings. The ability to apply text
formatting is also useful. Naturally, these people brought their behavior to
the Internet when corporate networks and the Internet converged.

Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to expect
everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to format
messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes. In fact, it
comes across as elitist and alienating.

If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators appear
convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles might find their
way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way to this email list.
They will bring with them habits gained from years of doing things the Windows
way. Are these habits in some manner wrong? No, of course not. They're just
different. We, then, are faced with a choice: we can either welcome them to the
wonderful world that is community-driven free software, or we can drive them
away. Let's not drive them away.

...Steve Riley
...administrator, Kubuntu Forums


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Hehe just realized I never checked K9 mail's quote/reply settings! I just switched back to it yesterday.

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Steve Riley 05-30-2012 05:57 PM

Update to the Community
 
On 2012-05-30 13:37:13 Clay Weber <clay@claydoh.com> wrote:
>
> While I do agree with you in general, there are reasons for this etiquette
> that have their basis more on efficiency and usability.

Hmm... so which of the guidelines did you violate?

* Quoted the whole thing
* Top posted
* Used HTML
* No indenting

LOL, dude, just had to tease ya :) :)

...Steve


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"Juan R. de Silva" 05-30-2012 11:12 PM

Update to the Community
 
> People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet
> journey adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the
> then-popular Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do
> with the limited storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times.

While it mostly true that the mentioned habits originated in mentioned
"then" realities, it is also true that these habits aimed usability,
meaning the time spent on reading and responding in first place. And this
is probably the main reason why these habits outlived their original
constrains and successfully migrated to new realities.

Increased storage space and bandwidth do not mean people are ready to
spend their personal time "fishing" for the actual poster's message
between all HTML tags.

> Naturally, these people
> brought their behavior to the Internet when corporate networks and the
> Internet converged.

It might be very natural for them but it is not necessarily natural for
the community they just joined. See for the main reason above.

IMHO, when people join a new to them community and look for assistance
from its members, it seems to be also natural to respect time and efforts
of those who they are expecting to provide such assistance.

> Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to
> expect everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to
> format messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes.
> In fact, it comes across as elitist and alienating.

Well, first of all, it's not quite right to use words like "kvetching".
This DOES "comes across as elitist and alienating".

If you read my post again you'd see that I just suggested that posting in
HTML was actually the best way for "alienating" a significant portion of
the community that is capable and would be willing to provide an
assistance.

And BTW isn't it true that the existent posting etiquette does suggests
not HTML formatting as a PROPER one?

> If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators
> appear convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles
> might find their way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way
> to this email list. They will bring with them habits gained from years
> of doing things the Windows way. Are these habits in some manner wrong?
> No, of course not. They're just different.

With you permission, I would strongly disagree with you on this.

Consider a simple example. People used to drive along the left hand road
side in UK. Some of them comes to another country where cars move along
right hand road side. Imagine now he/she would attempt to keep his/her
habits...

Would it be "just different"? Or would it be wrong?

You see, "just different" at times can be just wrong.

> We, then, are faced with a
> choice: we can either welcome them to the wonderful world that is
> community-driven free software, or we can drive them away. Let's not
> drive them away.

Agree with every single word.

But let welcome them by helping to understand how Linux community in
large lives and why it is for their own benefit to accept and to adapt to
certain "habits" of this community.

Yes, we can certainly "welcome" them by not letting them know about
existence of a posting etiquette. But wouldn't it be wrong? Wouldn't it
mean alienating them instead?

Is it really the best way to welcome newcomers by slowly eroding the
community etiquette.


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