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Old 05-31-2012, 03:05 AM
Ryan Gauger
 
Default Update to the Community

What does all of this have to do with the original email?

On May 30, 2012, at 6:12 PM, "Juan R. de Silva" <juan.r.d.silva@gmail.com> wrote:

>> People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet
>> journey adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the
>> then-popular Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do
>> with the limited storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times.
>
> While it mostly true that the mentioned habits originated in mentioned
> "then" realities, it is also true that these habits aimed usability,
> meaning the time spent on reading and responding in first place. And this
> is probably the main reason why these habits outlived their original
> constrains and successfully migrated to new realities.
>
> Increased storage space and bandwidth do not mean people are ready to
> spend their personal time "fishing" for the actual poster's message
> between all HTML tags.
>
>> Naturally, these people
>> brought their behavior to the Internet when corporate networks and the
>> Internet converged.
>
> It might be very natural for them but it is not necessarily natural for
> the community they just joined. See for the main reason above.
>
> IMHO, when people join a new to them community and look for assistance
> from its members, it seems to be also natural to respect time and efforts
> of those who they are expecting to provide such assistance.
>
>> Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to
>> expect everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to
>> format messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes.
>> In fact, it comes across as elitist and alienating.
>
> Well, first of all, it's not quite right to use words like "kvetching".
> This DOES "comes across as elitist and alienating".
>
> If you read my post again you'd see that I just suggested that posting in
> HTML was actually the best way for "alienating" a significant portion of
> the community that is capable and would be willing to provide an
> assistance.
>
> And BTW isn't it true that the existent posting etiquette does suggests
> not HTML formatting as a PROPER one?
>
>> If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators
>> appear convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles
>> might find their way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way
>> to this email list. They will bring with them habits gained from years
>> of doing things the Windows way. Are these habits in some manner wrong?
>> No, of course not. They're just different.
>
> With you permission, I would strongly disagree with you on this.
>
> Consider a simple example. People used to drive along the left hand road
> side in UK. Some of them comes to another country where cars move along
> right hand road side. Imagine now he/she would attempt to keep his/her
> habits...
>
> Would it be "just different"? Or would it be wrong?
>
> You see, "just different" at times can be just wrong.
>
>> We, then, are faced with a
>> choice: we can either welcome them to the wonderful world that is
>> community-driven free software, or we can drive them away. Let's not
>> drive them away.
>
> Agree with every single word.
>
> But let welcome them by helping to understand how Linux community in
> large lives and why it is for their own benefit to accept and to adapt to
> certain "habits" of this community.
>
> Yes, we can certainly "welcome" them by not letting them know about
> existence of a posting etiquette. But wouldn't it be wrong? Wouldn't it
> mean alienating them instead?
>
> Is it really the best way to welcome newcomers by slowly eroding the
> community etiquette.
>
>
> --
> kubuntu-users mailing list
> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users

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Old 05-31-2012, 03:19 AM
Leslie Anne Chatterton
 
Default Update to the Community

Agreed, we need to get back to discussion of technical issues.

On May 30, 2012 11:07 PM, "Ryan Gauger" <rtgkid@gmail.com> wrote:
What does all of this have to do with the original email?



On May 30, 2012, at 6:12 PM, "Juan R. de Silva" <juan.r.d.silva@gmail.com> wrote:



>> People have different online habits. Those who began their Internet

>> journey adopted one set of habits, largely informed by the norms of the

>> then-popular Usenet community. Some of these habits probably had to do

>> with the limited storage space and narrow bandwidth of the times.

>

> While it mostly true that the mentioned habits originated in mentioned

> "then" realities, it is also true that these habits aimed usability,

> meaning the time spent on reading and responding in first place. And this

> is probably the main reason why these habits outlived their original

> constrains and successfully migrated to new realities.

>

> Increased storage space and bandwidth do not mean people are ready to

> spend their personal time "fishing" for the actual poster's message

> between all HTML tags.

>

>> Naturally, these people

>> brought their behavior to the Internet when corporate networks and the

>> Internet converged.

>

> It might be very natural for them but it is not necessarily natural for

> the community they just joined. See for the main reason above.

>

> IMHO, when people join a new to them community and look for assistance

> from its members, it seems to be also natural to respect time and efforts

> of those who they are expecting to provide such assistance.

>

>> Personally, I straddle both worlds. But I don't think it's right to

>> expect everyone to do that. Kvetching on lists about the "proper" way to

>> format messages is likely not to result in the desired behavior changes.

>> In fact, it comes across as elitist and alienating.

>

> Well, first of all, it's not quite right to use words like "kvetching".

> This DOES "comes across as elitist and alienating".

>

> If you read my post again you'd see that I just suggested that posting in

> HTML was actually the best way for "alienating" a significant portion of

> the community that is capable and would be willing to provide an

> assistance.

>

> And BTW isn't it true that the existent posting etiquette does suggests

> not HTML formatting as a PROPER one?

>

>> If Windows 8 turns out to be the disaster that the prognosticators

>> appear convinced it will be, a certain percentage of Windows exiles

>> might find their way to Kubuntu. Some of these might also find their way

>> to this email list. They will bring with them habits gained from years

>> of doing things the Windows way. Are these habits in some manner wrong?

>> No, of course not. They're just different.

>

> With you permission, I would strongly disagree with you on this.

>

> Consider a simple example. People used to drive along the left hand road

> side in UK. Some of them comes to another country where cars move along

> right hand road side. Imagine now he/she would attempt to keep his/her

> habits...

>

> Would it be "just different"? Or would it be wrong?

>

> You see, "just different" at times can be just wrong.

>

>> We, then, are faced with a

>> choice: we can either welcome them to the wonderful world that is

>> community-driven free software, or we can drive them away. Let's not

>> drive them away.

>

> Agree with every single word.

>

> But let welcome them by helping to understand how Linux community in

> large lives and why it is for their own benefit to accept and to adapt to

> certain "habits" of this community.

>

> Yes, we can certainly "welcome" them by not letting them know about

> existence of a posting etiquette. But wouldn't it be wrong? *Wouldn't it

> mean alienating them instead?

>

> Is it really the best way to welcome newcomers by slowly eroding the

> community etiquette.

>

>

> --

> kubuntu-users mailing list

> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com

> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users



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Old 05-31-2012, 04:40 AM
Jon Trulson
 
Default Update to the Community

On Wed, 30 May 2012, Ryan Gauger wrote:


What does all of this have to do with the original email?



Well, it was a discussion of etiquette, which is needed from
time-to-time. But you're right. Let's 'stay on target' and keep this
list focused on a purely technical basis.

Yours in Allah, Peace Be Upon Him.
-Jon





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Old 05-31-2012, 01:16 PM
Ryan Gauger
 
Default Update to the Community

On 05/30/2012 11:40 PM, Jon Trulson wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2012, Ryan Gauger wrote:


What does all of this have to do with the original email?



Well, it was a discussion of etiquette, which is needed from
time-to-time. But you're right. Let's 'stay on target' and keep this
list focused on a purely technical basis.

Yours in Allah, Peace Be Upon Him.
-Jon





I do agree that this is needed from time-to-time, but technical issues
is what this list is all about.


In Christ,
Ryan

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