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Old 02-08-2012, 11:10 AM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On 8 Feb 2012, at 11:51, Sid Boyce wrote:

> On 08/02/12 03:26, kubuntu-users-request@lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
>> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:19:27 -0500 From: doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> To: kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu Message-ID: <4F31955F.5070701@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 02/07/2012 09:27 AM, Thomas K Gamble wrote:
>>> According to Ubuntu Counter (assuming theire stats are a reasonably accurate
>>> representation)
>>>
>>> http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/
>>>
>>> Kubuntu only accounts for 2% of the various Ubuntu flavor installs.
>>>
>>> Rather surprising, imho.
>>>
>>> /snip/
>> I looked at Kubuntu about a year ago. It was the absolute worst
>> rendition of KDE that I have ever seen.
>> It's no wonder nobody wants it!
>>
>> --doug
>>
> I use Kubuntu 11.10 on 2 x86_64 boxes, Unity 11.10 on a BeagleBoard ARM platform and Unity on 12.04 on a x86_64 laptop run from a USB stick.
>
> I also run 3 openSUSE 12.2 Milestone 0 boxes with KDE.
>
> Unity is not nice, to put it politely and I don't see where it's heading.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with KDE and I for one prefer it.
>
> I know there were scathing comments when KDE4 was introduced, that was in spite of the clear warnings given by the developers that the intention was to get it out there to receive bug reports, etc.
> There was no distro that forced it on users but as usual the barbs came in spades and I'm sure they were expected.

That's not true. I was a Mandriva user at the time and KDE 4.1 was the default desktop in their 2010 release. It was buggy as hell and it was at that time I switched to Ubuntu for a year before finally switching to Kubuntu when KDE4 improved to the point where I could run it on a daily basis.

Yes the early releases were released with caveats, but in my view this was a huge mistake. A lot of Linux users like to keep up to date with the latest releases - to get up to date kernels and up to date software packages. Around that time if we wanted to do that we had no choice but to get KDE4 as well, despite it being only partially complete. KDE4 should not even have been made public unit 4.2 and even then that would have been classed as alpha software in my book. If you release a default desktop people expect it to basically work, which KDE4 didn't - this is not an unreasonable expectation. This made people angry and you know what the internet is like - angry people will write angry emails and that's what happened. And now we see the same thing happening all over again with Unity. Lessons clearly were not learned. The past two years in Linux have been the era of beta software, more so than at any time I can remember, and people are getting fed up.

Perhaps, with Kubuntu not being "commercially sponsored" any more, people will actually start to to expect less of it. I know that a lot of my criticism of it recently has been based on the fact that I expect better from a distro that is bankrolled by a billionaire. It's still to my mind the best of the KDE distros (I installed Debian wheezy yesterday and was not impressed). Perhaps we'll now see more of a community spirit around it.

Mark




>
> There were useful bug reports and observations fed back which led to fixes and improvements, the barbs duly consigned to the waste bin where they belonged though some may have been helpful.
> The developers knew the state of the code and users were forewarned even if they didn't heed the caveats issued.
> Regards
> Sid.
>
> --
> Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
> Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
> Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
> Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
>
>
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> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:26 PM
Tim Edwards
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012, at 12:10 PM, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> That's not true. I was a Mandriva user at the time and KDE 4.1 was the
> default desktop in their 2010 release. It was buggy as hell and it was at
> that time I switched to Ubuntu for a year before finally switching to
> Kubuntu when KDE4 improved to the point where I could run it on a daily
> basis.
>
> Yes the early releases were released with caveats, but in my view this
> was a huge mistake. A lot of Linux users like to keep up to date with the
> latest releases - to get up to date kernels and up to date software
> packages. Around that time if we wanted to do that we had no choice but
> to get KDE4 as well, despite it being only partially complete. KDE4
> should not even have been made public unit 4.2 and even then that would
> have been classed as alpha software in my book. If you release a default
> desktop people expect it to basically work, which KDE4 didn't - this is
> not an unreasonable expectation. This made people angry and you know what
> the internet is like - angry people will write angry emails and that's
> what happened. And now we see the same thing happening all over again
> with Unity. Lessons clearly were not learned. The past two years in Linux
> have been the era of beta software, more so than at any time I can
> remember, and people are getting fed up.
>
> Perhaps, with Kubuntu not being "commercially sponsored" any more, people
> will actually start to to expect less of it. I know that a lot of my
> criticism of it recently has been based on the fact that I expect better
> from a distro that is bankrolled by a billionaire. It's still to my mind
> the best of the KDE distros (I installed Debian wheezy yesterday and was
> not impressed). Perhaps we'll now see more of a community spirit around
> it.

+1 to all this. IMHO there was a massive failure in communication around
the early 4 releases which could've been avoided by simply adding the
words 'beta' and 'alpha', i.e. "KDE 4.0 alpha", "KDE 4.1 alpha", "KDE
4.2 beta" up to maybe "KDE 4.4".

Tim

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Old 02-09-2012, 08:59 AM
Valter Mura
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

In data marted́ 7 febbraio 2012 16:44:38, Sid Boyce ha scritto:

> Time to move to another distro that doesn't show such contempt for its
> users with an attitude that says they will damn well use what we give them.

I agree with you Sid. If Kubuntu should go worse and worse, I'll change
distro, even if I'm an active contributor of Kubuntu (localization).

I'll continue to contribute to KDE, obviuosly.

I've chosen KDE as my preferred DE, and I don't like Gnome very much.

Note also that, while KDE team develops many important apps, like Kontact,
Kmail, Koffice, integrated in Kubuntu, Gnome doesn't. Now default e-mail and
browser for Ubuntu/Gnome are Thunderbird and Firefox, which are a Mozilla
project. I think this is an easier way to work.

The (my real) dream is that all Distro teams "unify" their efforts to create a
big, strong, stable, to create an unique, KDE distro able to compete with
major companies' software (I mean Windows and Apple). Of course, there could
be some task-oriented variants (e.g., for graphics, music, edu, and so on),
but the core should be only one with one year cycle and a great community
involved to develop and test it.

Let's see

--
Valter
*Open Source is better!*
Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org
KDE: www.kde.org
LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Dale Trombley
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

I just don't see it being that big a deal. The other *buntu derivatives are quite good and have a strong loyal following (even more so now that unity has reared its fugly head).* So long as buntu base is still the best base and kde running on top of that we still have the best distro out there. Add to that the community will make the decisions and not be handcuffed by canonical and we'll have more followers/users than Ubuntu itself.


On Feb 9, 2012 5:01 AM, "Valter Mura" <valtermura@gmail.com> wrote:
In data marted́ 7 febbraio 2012 16:44:38, Sid Boyce ha scritto:



> Time to move to another distro that doesn't show such contempt for its

> users with an attitude that says they will damn well use what we give them.



I agree with you Sid. If Kubuntu should go worse and worse, I'll change

distro, even if I'm an active contributor of Kubuntu (localization).



I'll continue to contribute to KDE, obviuosly.



I've chosen KDE as my preferred DE, and I don't like Gnome very much.



Note also that, while KDE team develops many important apps, like Kontact,

Kmail, Koffice, integrated in Kubuntu, Gnome doesn't. Now default e-mail and

browser for Ubuntu/Gnome are Thunderbird and Firefox, which are a Mozilla

project. I think this is an easier way to work.



The (my real) dream is that all Distro teams "unify" their efforts to create a

big, strong, stable, to create an unique, KDE distro able to compete with

major companies' software (I mean Windows and Apple). Of course, there could

be some task-oriented variants (e.g., for graphics, music, edu, and so on),

but the core should be only one with one year cycle and a great community

involved to develop and test it.



Let's see



--

Valter

*Open Source is better!*

Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org

KDE: www.kde.org

LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org



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Old 02-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Sid Boyce
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On 09/02/12 09:59, Valter Mura wrote:

In data marted́ 7 febbraio 2012 16:44:38, Sid Boyce ha scritto:


Time to move to another distro that doesn't show such contempt for its
users with an attitude that says they will damn well use what we give them.

I agree with you Sid. If Kubuntu should go worse and worse, I'll change
distro, even if I'm an active contributor of Kubuntu (localization).

I'll continue to contribute to KDE, obviuosly.

I've chosen KDE as my preferred DE, and I don't like Gnome very much.

Note also that, while KDE team develops many important apps, like Kontact,
Kmail, Koffice, integrated in Kubuntu, Gnome doesn't. Now default e-mail and
browser for Ubuntu/Gnome are Thunderbird and Firefox, which are a Mozilla
project. I think this is an easier way to work.

The (my real) dream is that all Distro teams "unify" their efforts to create a
big, strong, stable, to create an unique, KDE distro able to compete with
major companies' software (I mean Windows and Apple). Of course, there could
be some task-oriented variants (e.g., for graphics, music, edu, and so on),
but the core should be only one with one year cycle and a great community
involved to develop and test it.

Let's see


We shall see. I hope Kubuntu lives even as an offshoot.
Gnome's take is that customers/users get confused by customisation,
based on some gut feeling it seems.


KDE allows most things to be customised but I don't see users getting
confused and running away.


One complaint, if you can call it that, from the City of Largo in
Florida was that with a new release their workers spent a lot of time
customising their desktops, but they didn't seem to consider the initial
productivity loss particularly significant.


The belief that drives Unity is that most people use mobile phones and
that their desktop should eventually look exactly the same, except
desktops do not suffer from the same lack of display real-estate as
mobile phones and right now Unity is a pale show of a mobile phone with
a mouse attached.

Regards
Sid.

--
Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot,
Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support
Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach
Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks


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Old 02-09-2012, 07:55 PM
Bruce Bales
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On 02/07/2012 06:16 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Jonathan Riddell wrote:


Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.

Well, try to look at the good side of this. My only reason for abandoning
Kubuntu 8-04 was that it was going (or was already) out of support. Now
that
10-04 will no longer be supported, I can go back to 8-04 and a usable
version

of kmail. Maybe someday I will find another useful setup with support, but
in the meantime I won't miss Kubuntu post 8-04 and I will still be using
Linux,

which I love.

Sorry for the rest of you.
bruce

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Old 02-10-2012, 01:04 AM
Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Bruce Bales <bbales@cox.net> wrote:
> On 02/07/2012 06:16 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
>>
>> Jonathan Riddell wrote:
>>
>>
>> Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
>> funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
>> Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
>> Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
>> infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
>> as well.
>
> Well, try to look at the good side of this. *My only reason for abandoning
> Kubuntu 8-04 was that it was going (or was already) out of support. *Now
> that
> 10-04 will no longer be supported, I can go back to 8-04 and a usable
> version
> of kmail. *Maybe someday I will find another useful setup with support, but
> in the meantime I won't miss Kubuntu post 8-04 and I will still be using
> Linux,
> which I love.

Well, to my good surprise, yesterday I updated to KDE 4.8 (using
ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports), and kmail just started to work. I have
been using it all day, with no issues.

>
> Sorry for the rest of you.
> bruce
>
>
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:06 AM
"O. Sinclair"
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On 09/02/12 22:55, Bruce Bales wrote:

On 02/07/2012 06:16 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Jonathan Riddell wrote:


Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.

Well, try to look at the good side of this. My only reason for abandoning
Kubuntu 8-04 was that it was going (or was already) out of support. Now
that
10-04 will no longer be supported, I can go back to 8-04 and a usable
version
of kmail. Maybe someday I will find another useful setup with support, but
in the meantime I won't miss Kubuntu post 8-04 and I will still be using
Linux,
which I love.

Sorry for the rest of you.
bruce

If you love KDE3 so much check out the Trinity project but note it is
essentially a one-man project. Updated kernel, ubuntu-based and an
updated kde3 environment


www.trinityproject.org



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Old 02-10-2012, 06:04 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

Bruce Bales wrote:
> Now that
> 10-04 will no longer be supported,

As I understand it, 10.04 is a LTS version and therefore supported for 3
years, i.e. until 2013. Or did I miss something?


Nils

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Old 02-10-2012, 06:47 AM
"O. Sinclair"
 
Default Canonical pulls the plug on Kubuntu

On 10/02/12 04:04, Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote:

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Bruce Bales<bbales@cox.net> wrote:

On 02/07/2012 06:16 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:


Jonathan Riddell wrote:


Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.


Well, try to look at the good side of this. My only reason for abandoning
Kubuntu 8-04 was that it was going (or was already) out of support. Now
that
10-04 will no longer be supported, I can go back to 8-04 and a usable
version
of kmail. Maybe someday I will find another useful setup with support, but
in the meantime I won't miss Kubuntu post 8-04 and I will still be using
Linux,
which I love.


Well, to my good surprise, yesterday I updated to KDE 4.8 (using
ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports), and kmail just started to work. I have
been using it all day, with no issues.

with "auto-completion" of email address from addressbook, not only
"recent addresses" working? That is what made me step back to 4.7.4,
that function went missing - and "distribution lists" also stopped
working btw


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