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Old 02-03-2012, 02:17 PM
"Bas G. Roufs "
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

Dear Everybody



So far, I have been making backups from time to time via Dolphin or Midnight Commander: OK for one complete backup, but not effective for daily routine focussed at only newly added or changed files. Of course, I have been looking at this issue at the internet. Several packages and methods are being mentioned there. However, I am wondering which method(s) and package(s) work best in practice in my situation: Eee PC 1001 HA along with Kubuntu 11.04 or 11.10, in combination with two external mass storage devices - one HD to store at home, a 2nd one to always carry with me. In fact, I am looking for a package which is able to help me as follows:

making a first complete backup from all the text files, images, photo's, video's, etc. at each of the 2 external devices;
afterwords, making routine backups at each of the two devices while focussing only at files added or modified ever since the previous backup session.
What else to take into account:

I do not want to backup software which is available anyway in the repositories or elsewhere;
My netbook does not run 24/24hours - so I prefer to regulate the time schedule manually instead of relying on some automatic schedule.
Be so kind to provide me with you practical experience and thoughts. Thanks, respectfully yours,



Bas Roufs.
--

====

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Van 't Hoffstraat 1

NL-3514 VT Utrecht

+31 30 785 20 40

+31 6 446 835 10

BasRoufs@gmail.com

OS: Linux Kubuntu 11.04, kubuntu.org

Websites in construction:

* rainbowgathering.eu

* basroufs.eu

* viaconsensus.nl







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Old 02-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Basil Chupin
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

On 04/02/12 02:17, Bas G. Roufs wrote:


Dear Everybody

So far, I have been making backups from time to time via Dolphin or
Midnight Commander: OK for one complete backup, but not effective for
daily routine focussed at only newly added or changed files. Of
course, I have been looking at this issue at the internet. Several
packages and methods are being mentioned there. However, I am
wondering which method(s) and package(s) work best in practice in my
situation: Eee PC 1001 HA along with Kubuntu 11.04 or 11.10, in
combination with two external mass storage devices - one HD to store
at home, a 2nd one to always carry with me. In fact, I am looking for
a package which is able to help me as follows:


* making a first complete backup from all the text files, images,
photo's, video's, etc. at each of the 2 external devices;
* afterwords, making routine backups at each of the two devices
while focussing only at files added or modified ever since the
previous backup session.



I don't the answer which you are seeking but I do have a suggestion as a
work-around.


Seeing as how you already use mc (Midnight Commander), you do know that
you can click on the Column Heading "Modify Time" and the files get
resorted with, say, latest down to earliest?


But the other thing, of course, is that using mc you get to answer the
question whether you want to overwrite files and according to the
criterium you choose (eg, if size is different, if date is earlier, etc).



What else to take into account:

* I do not want to backup software which is available anyway in the
repositories or elsewhere;
* My netbook does not run 24/24hours - so I prefer to regulate the
time schedule manually instead of relying on some automatic schedule.

Be so kind to provide me with you practical experience and thoughts.
Thanks, respectfully yours,


Bas Roufs.



BC

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"Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?"
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:39 AM
Paul Lemmons
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

I use a simple shell script that uses rsync. It works perfectly for me.I have included it below.

What you will see is first a check to see if my external drive is mounted. It auto-mounts when plugged in. Next you will see several sections that create backups of specific directories.


The cleverness of the script is in the rsync command used. What it does is create a complete backup of all files every night into a new directory. However, if the file has not changed from the last time it was backed up it simply creates a hard-link to the previous backed up file. You can delete old backups and still not lose access to the files that are refrenced in later backups because they still have a hard link assigned to them. This gives you the *appearance* of a full backup every night while only using the space required to hold the deltas and a little overhead for the hard links.


When you do an ls on the backup directory you will see a something-current directory, which is the latest backup and then dated directories representing when their backups were taken.

I have several versions of this script that operate in different ways but the concept is the same. I am sure with a little chin scratching you could modify it to meet your need.


#!/bin/shif [ -e $HOME/passport/backups ]
then** date=`date "+%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S"`
** echo "Backing up /home/paul"** sudo rsync -axP --link-dest=$HOME/passport/backups/home-current /home/paul $HOME/passport/backups/home-back-$date
** if [ -e $HOME/passport/backups/home-back-$date ]** then
***** rm -f $HOME/passport/backups/home-current***** ln -s $HOME/passport/backups/home-back-$date $HOME/passport/backups/home-current
** fi** echo "Backing up /etc"
** sudo rsync -axP --link-dest=$HOME/passport/backups/etc-current* /etc****** $HOME/passport/backups/etc-back-$date** if [ -e $HOME/passport/backups/etc-back-$date ]
** then***** rm -f $HOME/passport/backups/etc-current
***** ln -s $HOME/passport/backups/etc-back-$date* $HOME/passport/backups/etc-current** fi
** echo "Backing up /var/www"** sudo rsync -axP --link-dest=$HOME/passport/backups/www-current* /var/www** $HOME/passport/backups/www-back-$date
** if [ -e $HOME/passport/backups/www-back-$date ]** then
***** rm -f $HOME/passport/backups/www-current***** ln -s $HOME/passport/backups/www-back-$date* $HOME/passport/backups/www-current
** fielse** echo "Passport not mounted. Backup Aborting"
fi

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:

On 04/02/12 02:17, Bas G. Roufs wrote:




Dear Everybody



So far, I have been making backups from time to time via Dolphin or Midnight Commander: OK for one complete backup, but not effective for daily routine focussed at only newly added or changed files. Of course, I have been looking at this issue at the internet. Several packages and methods are being mentioned there. However, I am wondering which method(s) and package(s) work best in practice in my situation: Eee PC 1001 HA along with Kubuntu 11.04 or 11.10, in combination with two external mass storage devices - one HD to store at home, a 2nd one to always carry with me. In fact, I am looking for a package which is able to help me as follows:




** making a first complete backup from all the text files, images,

* *photo's, video's, etc. at each of the 2 external devices;

** afterwords, making routine backups at each of the two devices

* *while focussing only at files added or modified ever since the

* *previous backup session.






I don't the answer which you are seeking but I do have a suggestion as a work-around.



Seeing as how you already use mc (Midnight Commander), you do know that you can click on the Column Heading "Modify Time" and the files get resorted with, say, latest down to earliest?



But the other thing, of course, is that using mc you get to answer the question whether you want to overwrite files and according to the criterium you choose (eg, if size is different, if date is earlier, etc).




What else to take into account:



** I do not want to backup software which is available anyway in the

* *repositories or elsewhere;

** My netbook does not run 24/24hours - so I prefer to regulate the

* *time schedule manually instead of relying on some automatic schedule.



Be so kind to provide me with you practical experience and thoughts. Thanks, respectfully yours,



Bas Roufs.






BC



--

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"Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?"

"Not yet," she replied.



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Old 02-04-2012, 09:38 PM
Tom Bell
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

On 02/03/2012 10:17 AM, Bas G. Roufs wrote:



Dear Everybody

So far, I have
been making backups from time to time via Dolphin or Midnight
Commander: OK for one complete backup, but not effective for
daily routine focussed at only newly added or changed files.
Of course, I have been looking at this issue at the internet.
Several packages and methods are being mentioned there.
However, I am wondering which method(s) and package(s) work
best in practice in my situation: Eee PC 1001 HA along with
Kubuntu 11.04 or 11.10, in combination with two external mass
storage devices - one HD to store at home, a 2nd one to always
carry with me. In fact, I am looking for a package which is
able to help me as follows:


making a first complete backup from
all the text files, images, photo's, video's, etc. at each of
the 2 external devices;
afterwords, making routine backups
at each of the two devices while focussing only at files added
or modified ever since the previous backup session.

What else to
take into account:


I do not want to backup software
which is available anyway in the repositories or elsewhere;
My netbook does not run 24/24hours
- so I prefer to regulate the time schedule manually instead
of relying on some automatic schedule.

Be so kind to
provide me with you practical experience and thoughts. Thanks,
respectfully yours,

Bas Roufs.

--

====

Bas G.
Roufs MA

Van 't
Hoffstraat 1

NL-3514 VT
Utrecht

+31 30 785 20
40

+31 6 446 835
10

BasRoufs@gmail.com

OS: Linux
Kubuntu 11.04, kubuntu.org

Websites in
construction:

*
rainbowgathering.eu

* basroufs.eu

*
viaconsensus.nl











I would recommend using TARDIS.* You can find it in the repositories
and add it to the panel by selecting the widget.* After that pick
the directory you wish to backup and the directory you wish to
backup to, with the time to perform the backup and you are all set.

Hope this helps!

Good luck!



Tom



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Old 02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
Bas Roufs
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

Hello Tom

You advised me the following:

I would recommend using TARDIS.* You can find it in the repositories
and add it to the panel by selecting the widget.* After that pick
the directory you wish to backup and the directory you wish to
backup to, with the time to perform the backup and you are all set.

One question for now. TARDIS: is the page indicated below related to the package you are aiming at?

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=148033


Respectfully yours,
Bas.


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Old 02-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

On 4 Feb 2012, at 23:10, Bas Roufs wrote:Hello Tom

You advised me the following:

I would recommend using TARDIS.* You can find it in the repositories
and add it to the panel by selecting the widget.* After that pick
the directory you wish to backup and the directory you wish to
backup to, with the time to perform the backup and you are all set.

One question for now. TARDIS: is the page indicated below related to the package you are aiming at?

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=148033



As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever intended to do that.
The basic idea of it though is probably what you need; you could use rsync and a couple of bash scripts to do manual incremental backups in the style of TARDIS, but without the automatic ageing. I'd be happy to advise if you like.
Nice to see someone recommending it though
Mark

Respectfully yours,
Bas.


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Old 02-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Bas Roufs
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

Dear Mark and Everybody Else

ark and Everybody Else


As
the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I
refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you
want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever
intended to do that.As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever intended to do that.

*This is exactly the reason I hesitate about TARDIS.
On the other hand: backing up and syncing I do with one external HD at a time only anyway.


The basic idea of it though is probably what you need; you could use rsync and a couple of bash scripts to do manual incremental backups in the style of TARDIS, but without the automatic ageing. I'd be happy to advise if you like.

In the meantime, I have been experimenting with "LuckyBackup" - which has RSync and some other scripts under the hood. It works both graphically and with command line. It is in the repo as well. More info:

http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/




My experiences so far can be summarised as follows.



http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/

I successfully managed to make a complete backup of the WHOLE home directory to the biggest external HD: "WD Elements" , 2 Terabytes. The strange aspect of this experience is the way in which that HD has been formatted: NTFS. But there was not one single error report.


My question is: what best to do with the big external HD? Leaving it
as it is now while continuing to use it? Or is it better to reformat it
into EXT4 and making a new backup afterwords?


With respect to the other external HD: that one is a "ADATA NH 92" of 500 GB. Although I did format that one as FAT32, more than 800 error reports have been mentioned with respect to my attempt to backup my HOME directory there. The error reports mainly refer to the KMAIL e-mail directories in .kde/share. An attempt to synchronise the HOME directory at the netbook and the NH92 ended up in a similar result.



On the other hand, I DID manage to successfully backup all the datafiles, images, etc. to the NH92. Even eg. software and iso images could be transferred without problems. The problem is limited to the e-mail directory .kde/share.




My question is: do I need to reformat the NH92? if I need EXT4 for the backup, is it possible to leave 50 or 100 GB as FAT32 by means of partitioning?




Thanks for your replies. Respectfully yours,
Bas Roufs.


















*

Nice to see someone recommending it though
Mark

Respectfully yours,
Bas.


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T. +31 30 785 2040

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Old 02-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Bas Roufs
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

Dear Mark and Everybody Else

ark and Everybody Else


As
the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I
refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you
want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever
intended to do that.As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever intended to do that.

*This is exactly the reason I hesitate about TARDIS.
On the other hand: backing up and syncing I do with one external HD at a time only anyway.


The basic idea of it though is probably what you need; you could use rsync and a couple of bash scripts to do manual incremental backups in the style of TARDIS, but without the automatic ageing. I'd be happy to advise if you like.

In the meantime, I have been experimenting with "LuckyBackup" - which has RSync and some other scripts under the hood. It works both graphically and with command line. It is in the repo as well. More info:

http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/




My experiences so far can be summarised as follows.



http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/

I successfully managed to make a complete backup of the WHOLE home directory to the biggest external HD: "WD Elements" , 2 Terabytes. The strange aspect of this experience is the way in which that HD has been formatted: NTFS. But there was not one single error report.


My question is: what best to do with the big external HD? Leaving it
as it is now while continuing to use it? Or is it better to reformat it
into EXT4 and making a new backup afterwords?


With respect to the other external HD: that one is a "ADATA NH 92" of 500 GB. Although I did format that one as FAT32, more than 800 error reports have been mentioned with respect to my attempt to backup my HOME directory there. The error reports mainly refer to the KMAIL e-mail directories in .kde/share. An attempt to synchronise the HOME directory at the netbook and the NH92 ended up in a similar result.



On the other hand, I DID manage to successfully backup all the datafiles, images, etc. to the NH92. Even eg. software and iso images could be transferred without problems. The problem is limited to the e-mail directory .kde/share.




My question is: do I need to reformat the NH92? if I need EXT4 for the backup, is it possible to leave 50 or 100 GB as FAT32 by means of partitioning?




Thanks for your replies. Respectfully yours,
Bas Roufs.


















*

Nice to see someone recommending it though
Mark

Respectfully yours,
Bas.


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NL-3514 VT *Utrecht
M./SMS +31 6 446 835 10
T. +31 30 785 2040

E. BasRoufs@gmail.com


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Old 02-05-2012, 09:33 PM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

On 5 Feb 2012, at 22:20, Bas Roufs wroteear Mark and Everybody Else

ark and Everybody Else


As
the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I
refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you
want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever
intended to do that.As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever intended to do that.

*This is exactly the reason I hesitate about TARDIS.
On the other hand: backing up and syncing I do with one external HD at a time only anyway.


The basic idea of it though is probably what you need; you could use rsync and a couple of bash scripts to do manual incremental backups in the style of TARDIS, but without the automatic ageing. I'd be happy to advise if you like.

In the meantime, I have been experimenting with "LuckyBackup" - which has RSync and some other scripts under the hood. It works both graphically and with command line. It is in the repo as well. More info:
http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/


My experiences so far can be summarised as follows.

http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/ I successfully managed to make a complete backup of the WHOLE home directory to the biggest external HD: "WD Elements" , 2 Terabytes. The strange aspect of this experience is the way in which that HD has been formatted: NTFS. But there was not one single error report.

My question is: what best to do with the big external HD? Leaving it
as it is now while continuing to use it? Or is it better to reformat it
into EXT4 and making a new backup afterwords?
With respect to the other external HD: that one is a "ADATA NH 92" of 500 GB. Although I did format that one as FAT32, more than 800 error reports have been mentioned with respect to my attempt to backup my HOME directory there. The error reports mainly refer to the KMAIL e-mail directories in .kde/share. An attempt to synchronise the HOME directory at the netbook and the NH92 ended up in a similar result.


On the other hand, I DID manage to successfully backup all the datafiles, images, etc. to the NH92. Even eg. software and iso images could be transferred without problems. The problem is limited to the e-mail directory .kde/share.


My question is: do I need to reformat the NH92? if I need EXT4 for the backup, is it possible to leave 50 or 100 GB as FAT32 by means of partitioning?


Thanks for your replies. Respectfully yours,Bas Roufs.


The problem you may have with using these disc formats is if your backup program using hard linking.
The basic method *most* rsync-based backup utilities use is to copy changed files but hard-link to unchanged files. NTFS supports hard linking but in a significantly less efficient way than any ext filesystem. FAT32 does not support hard linking at all.
I've done a minor amount of testing with NTFS on TARDIS but came to the conclusion that although it works ext4 is faster, more reliable, and uses much less disc space. Also note that FAT32 can't handle a file bigger than 2GB - whereas NTFS and ext can.
The other issue you may have with using a non-linux filesystem is to do with file permissions - NTFS handles permissions in a very different way than ext4 so these may not be restored properly. If it were me and I felt I might need to share my data with a Windows system the I'd use NTFS otherwise I'd have no hesitation in reformatting to ext4.
I've no experience with lucky backup so I can't comment on that. If you want to reformat your discs I can think of no reason why you can't make some partitions in the way you suggest.
Mark












*

Nice to see someone recommending it though
Mark

Respectfully yours,
Bas.


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T. +31 30 785 2040

E. BasRoufs@gmail.com


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Old 02-06-2012, 09:20 AM
"Bas G. Roufs"
 
Default How best to make daily routine backups from netbook to 2 external HD's?

Hello Loukas and Everybody Else




Thanks everybody for all the useful advise that came in so far in this thread.



> I've just been CC'd a message of yours but seems like I've missed lots of

> some conversation that's going on.







No problem, I can shortly summarise it. I am looking for a safe way to make daily routine backups within the following limits:

Netbook Eee PC 1001 HA, 250 GB HD, 2 GB RAM, 1,9GHZ processor, Kubuntu 11.04 (and soon Kubuntu 11.10)
backup to one large external HD meant to stay at home: " WG Elements" 2 TB;
backup to 2nd external HD, meant to always carry with me: "Adata NH92", 500 GB;
preference for "manual", so NOT automatic backup time schedule.
>

> I wouldn't like to start guessing, so if you need support about luckybackup

> (or anything within the limits of my knowledge and capabilities) please let

> me know of the backup scenario you wish to achieve, what's been done until

> now and anything that could be used to fill in the gaps of this story.

All the replies that have come in so far, point at the essential role of "RSYNC" - a script which is also being used in "LuckyBackup".

Another package which uses RSYNC is "KTARDIS". However, this KDE package is aimed at automatic time schedule backups to one target external HD only - so it became quickly clear that such a package will not work for me. Your colleague :-) Mark Greenwood, the developer of KTARDIS, honestly said this himself.




In the mean time, I started experimenting with LuckyBackup.

I DID manage to apparantly successfully backup the whole HOME directory to the big "WG Elements" 2 TB drive - though it is still formatted in NTFS format. Mark Greenwood, your colleague :-) who has developed KTARDIS, explained that NTFS can handle Linux "deep links": but less efficiently and less safely than the native Linux format EXT4. You can find the report of this backup process as follows:

go to http://viaconsensus.nl/LuckyBackup/
click at the link below "WG Elements 2 TB".....
Problems came up when trying to backup exactly the same directory to the "Adata N92" 500 GB HD, formatted as FAT32. Both the initial backup and the synchronisation attempts ended up in exactly the samen results:

about 800 problem reports for the KMAIL EMail directory .kde/share
OK for everything else.
For the detailed report, go again to http://viaconsensus.nl/LuckyBackup/. Click at the link below ."...NH92....".

Now, I come to the question for you, Loukas.

Mark Greenwood advises me to reformat both external hard disks to EXT4 - at least, when using RSYNC and/or KTARDIS. Does this advise also apply to LuckyBackup? In other words: can I avoid the problems I have had with the NH92 if I reformat it from FAT32 to EXT4?

For you, Mark: I am happy to reformat both external HD's to EXT4 if necessary. A third small sized external HD I have for exchange of data with Windows and Mac computers. Question for everybody: which format is best for such a purpose: FAT32 or NTFS?

This is it for now. Respectfully yours,

Bas.








































>

> Please excuse me for not directly replying at your questions.

> I don't want any misunderstandings that may lead to false advice with

> whatever the consequences.

>

> kind regards,

> Loukas

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> On Monday 06 of February 2012 00:20:56 you wrote:

> > *Dear Mark and Everybody Else*

> >

> > > *ark and Everybody Else*

> > >

> > >> As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I

> > >> refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you

> > >> want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever

> > >> intended to do that.

> > >

> > > As the developer of TARDIS ( ) I can say yes it probably is. I

> > > refrained from recommending it to you since it won't quite do what you

> > > want because it won't back up to 2 different discs - it wasn't ever

> > > intended to do that.

> >

> > *This is exactly the reason I hesitate about TARDIS.

> >

> > On the other hand: backing up and syncing I do with one external HD at a

> > time only anyway.

> > *

> >

> > > The basic idea of it though is probably what you need; you could use

> > > rsync and a couple of bash scripts to do manual incremental backups in

> > > the style of TARDIS, but without the automatic ageing. I'd be happy to

> > > advise if you like.

> >

> > *In the meantime, I have been experimenting with "L*uckyBackup" - *which

> > has RSync and some other scripts under the hood. It works both

> > graphically and with command line. It is in the repo as well. More info:

> > *

> >

> > http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/

> >

> >

> > *My experiences so far can be summarised as follows.*

> >

> > http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/

> >

> > *I successfully managed to make a complete backup of the WHOLE home

> > directory to the biggest external HD: "WD Elements" , 2 Terabytes. The

> > strange aspect of this experience is the way in which that HD has been

> > formatted: NTFS. But there was not one single error report. **

> > *

> >

> > *My question is: what best to do with the big external HD? Leaving it as

> > it is now while continuing to use it? Or is it better to reformat it

> > into EXT4 and making a new backup afterwords?*

> >

> >

> > *With respect to the other external HD: that one is a "ADATA NH 92" of

> > 500 GB. Although I did format that one as FAT32, more than 800 error

> > reports have been mentioned with respect to my attempt to backup my HOME

> > directory there. The error reports mainly refer to the KMAIL e-mail

> > directories in .kde/share. An attempt to synchronise the HOME directory

> > at the netbook and the NH92 ended up in a similar result. *

> >

> > *On the other hand, I DID manage to successfully backup all the

> > datafiles, images, etc. to the NH92. Even eg. software and iso images

> > could be transferred without problems.* *The problem is limited to the

> > e-mail directory .kde/share.

> > *

> >

> >

> > *My question is: do I need to reformat the NH92? if I need EXT4 for the

> > backup, is it possible to leave 50 or 100 GB as FAT32 by means of

> > partitioning?

> > *

> >

> >

> > *Thanks for your replies. Respectfully yours,*

> >

> > *Bas Roufs.

> > *

> >

> >

> > *

> > *

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > *

> > *

> >

> > > Nice to see someone recommending it though

> > >

> > > Mark

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully yours,

> > > Bas.

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > kubuntu-users mailing list

> > > kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com

> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:

> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > kubuntu-users mailing list

> > > kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com

> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:

> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users


--

Drs. Bas G. Roufs

Van 't Hoffstraat 1

NL-3514 VT Utrecht

+31 30 785 20 40

+31 6 446 835 10

BasRoufs@gmail.com

OS: Linux Kubuntu 11.04, kubuntu.org

Internetpagina's in opbouw:

BasRoufs.eu, Viaconsensus.nl, RainbowGathering.eu.

Lid GL? Kies Arno Uijlenhoet als nieuwe partijvoorzitter.
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