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Old 11-27-2007, 07:45 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

Sylviane et Perry White wrote:

>
> I followed that thread with interest, usually use Konk, but switcht to
> firefox if I need.
> Perhaps I will implement the strategie suggested by Derek "Change Browser
> Identification" [tells you how whicked some corporations are !] (it is not
> the first time I read about that).
>
To be fair, it's not usually "wicked", it's just sloppy. They write
javascript that needs to use specific work-arounds for different browsers,
instead of just using non-browser specific code - or using a product like
prototype or dojo which takes it out of your hands.
--
derek


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Old 11-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
> Perhaps I will implement the strategie suggested by Derek "Change
> Browser Identification"

May I suggest you use an obviously fake browser ID? Something like IE 11.3
on Mac OSX. Until now i found no site that didn't accept it. they seem to
only look for MSIE with a number >= 5.


Nils

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Old 11-27-2007, 09:38 PM
Thomas Olsen
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

On Tue 27 November 2007 09:52, Bjarne Wichmann Petersen wrote:
>
> It's quite interesting to read the responses to your post. I've been using
> Konqueror as my primary browser for the last 6-7 years. And I think it is
> doing really well. Though once in a while I encounter a
> non-standard-compliant (aka IE-only) website for which I then use Firefox.
>
> So I'd say Konqueror is one of the best standard-compliant websites and
> my "web-sphere" apparently consist of mostly standard-compliant websites!
> :-)

I second that. I only use FireFox for my web bank.

--
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Thomas Olsen



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Old 11-27-2007, 11:54 PM
Anton Rolls
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

Hi Dotan,

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 27/11/2007, Anton Rolls <anton@wilddsl.net.au> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Jonathan Jesse wrote:

>>> I am getting frustrated with using Konqueror as my default browser. I
>>> don't know if I just have some problems, or its the fact that I am running
>>> 64-bit Kubuntu,

>> It sounds like the solution for you might be to
>> install the win32 version of Firefox and install the
>> flash plugin.

>> Anton.
>
> You run the windows version of Fx in wine? You are aware that you can
> run 32 bit Firefox on a 64 bit system, no?
>
> Dotan Cohen

Oops, I'm on 32-bit and missed that the original poster's machine
is 64-bit. I don't know how well Firefox for Windows runs on 64-bit.

Apologies,

Anton.

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Old 11-28-2007, 12:47 AM
Francois-Denis Gonthier
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

On November 26, 2007 10:21:34 pm reuben firmin wrote:
> Does anybody on this list really use konqueror as their primary browser? Is
> there a good reason that kubuntu can't start shipping firefox in addition?
> It's all about the user experience, right? (BTW, I love konqueror, but
> strictly as a file manager / random-net-protocol client.)

I've used Konqueror as my primary browser for a long time, and still do while
I am at work. Since I use it as my filemanager too, it's always there,
always ready, and always much faster to start than FireFox.

Konqueror is perfectly functionnal for all the sites that are related to my
work, but I've grown accustomed to start FireFox to access problematic sites,
and even FireFox in a 32 bit chroot for sites than needed 32 bit plugins such
as Flash.

Some weeks ago, I decided to give Opera a try. While it's not as integrated
in KDE as Konqueror, it does pretty much everything FireFox and Konqueror did
when I used them both. I've force-installed the 32 bit Opera on my 64 bit
system to allow 32 bits plugins. Of course, I did that before I knew Gutsy
was distributing nspluginwrapper.

Personnaly, I don't like FireFox much, and won't even try to advocate the
inclusion of Opera by default in Kubuntu. If enough people get behind
FireFox then it should be included by default in Kubuntu, but I would not
like it set by default simply because of the fact that this is not KDE
browser.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:36 AM
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

I've done some web development... so I'll chime in.

I tested my sites against IE6(and later IE7), Konqueror and Firefox (a
bit of Opera, lynx etc too).

Konqueror is by far the most standards compliant web renderer there is.

If the standard says " do X, then Y then Z"... konqueror will render
correctly. IEx will NOT. Firefox does much better, Opera - OK, etc.

The problem seems to be IE is designed for badly designed websites.
You MUST be visiting sites that fall under this category.

There are many sites that are "designed" for IE, and many MANY more
sites that are designed by people who read "HOWTOs" that were written
by people who only knew IE.


Then there's the addition of non WWW elements in a WWW page (such as
flash, activeX components, etc) that I believe do not belong there.
This is way overused. If you want to disribute a video game... don't
use the .html suffix (unless it's purely for fun/experimentation/see
what you can do).


I suspect that in 2007, anyone who complains any browser is inferior
to IE must be spending his/her online time at myspace. What a
crap-tacular mess of mashed code (my the original programmers - buy
the unwashed masses who cut-and-pastes).

If you want to go to a site that harkens back to the AOL "ME TOO"
days, use IE. Nothing else will suffice.

Else, Konqueror will 100% satisfy.


WOW, got that off my chest.
-John


On 11/27/07, Francois-Denis Gonthier <neumann@lostwebsite.net> wrote:
> On November 26, 2007 10:21:34 pm reuben firmin wrote:
> > Does anybody on this list really use konqueror as their primary browser?
> Is
> > there a good reason that kubuntu can't start shipping firefox in addition?
> > It's all about the user experience, right? (BTW, I love konqueror, but
> > strictly as a file manager / random-net-protocol client.)
>
> I've used Konqueror as my primary browser for a long time, and still do
> while
> I am at work. Since I use it as my filemanager too, it's always there,
> always ready, and always much faster to start than FireFox.
>
> Konqueror is perfectly functionnal for all the sites that are related to my
> work, but I've grown accustomed to start FireFox to access problematic
> sites,
> and even FireFox in a 32 bit chroot for sites than needed 32 bit plugins
> such
> as Flash.
>
> Some weeks ago, I decided to give Opera a try. While it's not as integrated
> in KDE as Konqueror, it does pretty much everything FireFox and Konqueror
> did
> when I used them both. I've force-installed the 32 bit Opera on my 64 bit
> system to allow 32 bits plugins. Of course, I did that before I knew Gutsy
> was distributing nspluginwrapper.
>
> Personnaly, I don't like FireFox much, and won't even try to advocate the
> inclusion of Opera by default in Kubuntu. If enough people get behind
> FireFox then it should be included by default in Kubuntu, but I would not
> like it set by default simply because of the fact that this is not KDE
> browser.
>

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Old 11-28-2007, 01:38 AM
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

Oops, bad spell check.

mess of mashed code (my the original programmers - buy
the unwashed masses who cut-and-pastes).

should be:

mess of mashed code (not the original programmers - but
the unwashed masses who cut-and-pastes).


On 11/27/07, john.godzero@gmail.com <john.godzero@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've done some web development... so I'll chime in.
>
> I tested my sites against IE6(and later IE7), Konqueror and Firefox (a
> bit of Opera, lynx etc too).
>
> Konqueror is by far the most standards compliant web renderer there is.
>
> If the standard says " do X, then Y then Z"... konqueror will render
> correctly. IEx will NOT. Firefox does much better, Opera - OK, etc.
>
> The problem seems to be IE is designed for badly designed websites.
> You MUST be visiting sites that fall under this category.
>
> There are many sites that are "designed" for IE, and many MANY more
> sites that are designed by people who read "HOWTOs" that were written
> by people who only knew IE.
>
>
> Then there's the addition of non WWW elements in a WWW page (such as
> flash, activeX components, etc) that I believe do not belong there.
> This is way overused. If you want to disribute a video game... don't
> use the .html suffix (unless it's purely for fun/experimentation/see
> what you can do).
>
>
> I suspect that in 2007, anyone who complains any browser is inferior
> to IE must be spending his/her online time at myspace. What a
> crap-tacular mess of mashed code (my the original programmers - buy
> the unwashed masses who cut-and-pastes).
>
> If you want to go to a site that harkens back to the AOL "ME TOO"
> days, use IE. Nothing else will suffice.
>
> Else, Konqueror will 100% satisfy.
>
>
> WOW, got that off my chest.
> -John
>
>
> On 11/27/07, Francois-Denis Gonthier <neumann@lostwebsite.net> wrote:
> > On November 26, 2007 10:21:34 pm reuben firmin wrote:
> > > Does anybody on this list really use konqueror as their primary browser?
> > Is
> > > there a good reason that kubuntu can't start shipping firefox in
> addition?
> > > It's all about the user experience, right? (BTW, I love konqueror, but
> > > strictly as a file manager / random-net-protocol client.)
> >
> > I've used Konqueror as my primary browser for a long time, and still do
> > while
> > I am at work. Since I use it as my filemanager too, it's always there,
> > always ready, and always much faster to start than FireFox.
> >
> > Konqueror is perfectly functionnal for all the sites that are related to
> my
> > work, but I've grown accustomed to start FireFox to access problematic
> > sites,
> > and even FireFox in a 32 bit chroot for sites than needed 32 bit plugins
> > such
> > as Flash.
> >
> > Some weeks ago, I decided to give Opera a try. While it's not as
> integrated
> > in KDE as Konqueror, it does pretty much everything FireFox and Konqueror
> > did
> > when I used them both. I've force-installed the 32 bit Opera on my 64 bit
> > system to allow 32 bits plugins. Of course, I did that before I knew
> Gutsy
> > was distributing nspluginwrapper.
> >
> > Personnaly, I don't like FireFox much, and won't even try to advocate the
> > inclusion of Opera by default in Kubuntu. If enough people get behind
> > FireFox then it should be included by default in Kubuntu, but I would not
> > like it set by default simply because of the fact that this is not KDE
> > browser.
> >
>

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Old 11-28-2007, 06:29 AM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

On 28/11/2007, Anton Rolls <anton@wilddsl.net.au> wrote:
> > You run the windows version of Fx in wine? You are aware that you can
> > run 32 bit Firefox on a 64 bit system, no?
> >
> > Dotan Cohen
>
> Oops, I'm on 32-bit and missed that the original poster's machine
> is 64-bit. I don't know how well Firefox for Windows runs on 64-bit.
>
> Apologies,
>
> Anton.
>

My point is that there is no need to run Firefox on wine in Linux.
32-bit or 64-bit. It makes not one bit of sense.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:46 AM
Donn
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

> My point is that there is no need to run Firefox on wine in Linux.
Too true -- all you get out the other end is Drunkfox.


d

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Old 11-28-2007, 09:29 AM
Sebastian Kgler
 
Default Feeling like a 2nd class citizen

[Reducing to kubuntu-devel]

On Tuesday 27 November 2007 03:52:10 Jonathan Jesse wrote:
> I know I probablly shouldn't be posting this to both lists, but I couldn't
> figure out which one would be better to post to.
>
> I am getting frustrated with using Konqueror as my default browser. *I
> don't know if I just have some problems, or its the fact that I am running
> 64-bit Kubuntu, but it is getting to the point that browsing the web is
> just easier, and more fun in Internet Explorer.
[...]

Your post is a bit 'low on details'. Can you maybe give links to pages that
don't work and point out exactly what doesn't and what you expect?
Most probably, konqueror / KHTML developers are not aware of those problems
(as lots of other users who chimed in in this thread aren't).

So, how about filing bugs along the way with enough information so one can
actually reproduce, so it will be tracked and taken care of?
--
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