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Old 11-28-2007, 03:54 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Setup woes

Bill Vance wrote:

> Derek Broughton (news@pointerstop.ca) had this to say on 11/27/07 at
> 10:35:

No, I didn't. Please try to keep the attributions straight.

>>You don't *have* to follow all things the Ubuntu way, if you don't want
>>to.
>
> Which brings up something I've been noticing. I've gone through running
> an Amiga dos UUCP site with a Unix style shell, to three upgrades of
> Caldera
> Linux, to one of SUSE, and now Kubuntu. While the past systems, (and
> Kubuntu as well), all had a bit of a learning curve, this is the first
> time I've got the feeling of, "We're not going to let you do this, just
> because we don't like it that way, so there!"

There's no paternalism going on here. It's _really_ easy to enable a root
prompt. It is, in my own opinion, a Really Bad Idea, but Ubuntu in no way
prevents you from doing stupid things. Ubuntu doesn't say "you can't do
this", it simply doesn't enable a root account because it isn't necessary
and it's a security hole.

> Then I noticed that the system tends to lose
> track of who is doing what when one of the available shells is being run
> by "root". In other words, you can't do a really long, complex,
> job of some sort as root, and take an occaisional email break, (or
> whatever), in another shell
> as, "user", without things getting a little kinky. I'll refrain from
> trying to deduce which is caused by which, (maybe it's something else,
> entirely).

Could you give some examples? I just don't understand what you're
suggesting - whether using "su" or "sudo", "the system" keeps track of "who
is doing what" perfectly well - certainly no worse than any other linux.
Additionally, with sudo, it logs that... (btw, both su and sudo exist on
RedHat-based systems, and as far as I can see are identical to Ubuntu's).
--
derek


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Old 11-29-2007, 02:00 AM
Mike Leone
 
Default Setup woes

Derek Broughton wrote:

>> And everyone
>> should have the freedom to run their system the way they like, don't you
>> think?
>
> Of course they should - I just don't think it's a good idea to advise
> somebody to bypass a good security feature when they aren't doing very well
> with security in the first place. Rebooting in single-user mode after
> screwing up sudoers is a _very_ small price to pay.

I advised no one to do anything. I stated what I did, and why. And said
YMMV. The OP is quite free to ignore what I say or suggest, if he didn't
like what I had to say. As everyone is, really.

>> You don't *have* to follow all things the Ubuntu way, if you don't want
>> to.
>
> You certainly don't, but you don't have to offer a suicidal person a rope
> with a pre-made noose, either.

Oh, please. Some perspective, Derek. "suicidal" LOL




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Old 11-29-2007, 08:15 AM
Bill Vance
 
Default Setup woes

On Wed Nov 28 08:47:00 2007 Derek Broughton wrote:

>Mike Leone wrote:
>
>> Derek Broughton (news@pointerstop.ca) had this to say on 11/27/07 at
>> 10:35:
>>> Mike Leone wrote:
>>>
>>> > Nils Kassube wrote:
>>> >> Bill Vance wrote:
>>> >>> Ok, I tried, "sudo ls", and got:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> sudo: /etc/sudoers is mode 0740, should be 0440
>>> >>
>>> >> As you can't use the sudo command any more, I think you should boot to
>>> >> recovery mode now.
>>> >
>>> > That's one of the reasons why I always put a password on "root", and
>>> > use "su". YMMV.
>>>
>>> Pretty weak. He only got this way by doing things he shouldn't - so
>>> you'd like to make it easier to do things you shouldn't...
>>
>> "Shouldn't"? Using "su" is pretty standard Linux practice.
>
>That's not what caused his problem. Simply using sudo or su doesn't mess up
>the permissions on /etc/sudoers. Somebody had to have done that ...
>
>> And everyone
>> should have the freedom to run their system the way they like, don't you
>> think?
>
>Of course they should - I just don't think it's a good idea to advise
>somebody to bypass a good security feature when they aren't doing very well
>with security in the first place. Rebooting in single-user mode after
>screwing up sudoers is a _very_ small price to pay.
>
>> You don't *have* to follow all things the Ubuntu way, if you don't want
>> to.
>
>You certainly don't, but you don't have to offer a suicidal person a rope
>with a pre-made noose, either.
>--
>derek


FYI, It was nothing I deliberately did. It was something the system did,
while I was doing something else, entirely. Adept Manager seems quite buggy
on this end, and that's straight out of the distro box, including some effect
or other on just about everything. Text install was the only one that worked,
and I'm still wondering what to do about some of the hard drive partitions it
didn't get right, some device that Adept Manager can't open, and a number of
other weirdies.

Bill


--
************************************************** ******************************
* *
RKBA! * Blessings on thee, oh Israel!!! * 4-19!
* *
************************************************** ******************************

An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured by | All Matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by Colt; | --Max Planck | weapon, sell his
hand = Freedom | Dial | In the beginning was the | garment, and buy a
on every side!! | 1-911-A1 | Word. --The Holy Bible | sword. --Jesus Christ

************************************************** ******************************

Constitutional Government is dead! LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!

************************************************** ******************************

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Old 11-29-2007, 08:25 AM
Bill Vance
 
Default Setup woes

On Wed Nov 28 08:54:58 2007 Derek Broughton wrote:

>Bill Vance wrote:
>
>> Derek Broughton (news@pointerstop.ca) had this to say on 11/27/07 at
>> 10:35:
>
>No, I didn't. Please try to keep the attributions straight.
>
>>>You don't *have* to follow all things the Ubuntu way, if you don't want
>>>to.
>>
>> Which brings up something I've been noticing. I've gone through running
>> an Amiga dos UUCP site with a Unix style shell, to three upgrades of
>> Caldera
>> Linux, to one of SUSE, and now Kubuntu. While the past systems, (and
>> Kubuntu as well), all had a bit of a learning curve, this is the first
>> time I've got the feeling of, "We're not going to let you do this, just
>> because we don't like it that way, so there!"
>
>There's no paternalism going on here. It's _really_ easy to enable a root
>prompt. It is, in my own opinion, a Really Bad Idea, but Ubuntu in no way
>prevents you from doing stupid things. Ubuntu doesn't say "you can't do
>this", it simply doesn't enable a root account because it isn't necessary
>and it's a security hole.
>
>> Then I noticed that the system tends to lose
>> track of who is doing what when one of the available shells is being run
>> by "root". In other words, you can't do a really long, complex,
>> job of some sort as root, and take an occaisional email break, (or
>> whatever), in another shell
>> as, "user", without things getting a little kinky. I'll refrain from
>> trying to deduce which is caused by which, (maybe it's something else,
>> entirely).
>
>Could you give some examples? I just don't understand what you're
>suggesting - whether using "su" or "sudo", "the system" keeps track of "who
>is doing what" perfectly well - certainly no worse than any other linux.
>Additionally, with sudo, it logs that... (btw, both su and sudo exist on
>RedHat-based systems, and as far as I can see are identical to Ubuntu's).
>--
>derek

I mentioned some problems with the distro in my just previous reply. I'll
bring up some details as I get around to dealling with each. Too many things
going on at one time just makes everything more confusing.

Bill


--
************************************************** ******************************
* *
RKBA! * Blessings on thee, oh Israel!!! * 4-19!
* *
************************************************** ******************************

An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured by | All Matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by Colt; | --Max Planck | weapon, sell his
hand = Freedom | Dial | In the beginning was the | garment, and buy a
on every side!! | 1-911-A1 | Word. --The Holy Bible | sword. --Jesus Christ

************************************************** ******************************

Constitutional Government is dead! LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!

************************************************** ******************************

--
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kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
 
Old 11-29-2007, 12:30 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Setup woes

Mike Leone wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:
>
>>> You don't *have* to follow all things the Ubuntu way, if you don't want
>>> to.
>>
>> You certainly don't, but you don't have to offer a suicidal person a rope
>> with a pre-made noose, either.
>
> Oh, please. Some perspective, Derek. "suicidal" LOL

It was _supposed_ to be "LOL". It's an extreme example, but I'm trying to
make a point. The OP was clearly doing things with sudo that he didn't
understand - but at least once he fixes sudo, he can go through the sudo
logs and find out what he did (unless he was using "sudo -i" or similar).
Using su, he'll never know.
--
derek


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Old 11-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Setup woes

Bill Vance wrote:
>
> It was something the system did,

I'm not trying to find fault, but I find that extremely unlikely. If "the
system" would change the privilege on /etc/sudoers, we'd have heard this
same story countless times.

My bet is that at some point you tried to change read permission on some or
all files in /etc, and that broke sudo.

If you haven't been using commands to put yourself into a root shell
like "sudo -i" or "sudo -s":

grep sudo /var/log/auth.log

should show the command that broke it as the last line before you fixed the
permissions.

Note, anyone who's been using Linux for more than a few weeks, has surely
done more damage to his system than merely screwing up the permissions
on /etc/sudoers...
--
derek


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Old 12-01-2007, 07:18 AM
Bill Vance
 
Default Setup woes

Howdy folks;

Finally getting back to the job at hand, dealling with one of the many distro/
install problems.

Ok, starting up the 7.04 system installed, sorta crashes, (not completely),
with the following error message(s). There's a lot more afterwards, but one
thing at a time, (this isn't the only faulty partition, but is the one fsck
is dying on so far.


/var: Reisrfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with standard
journal
Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
Filesystem is clean
Failed to open the device 'UUID=96e20c1e-6919-4621-ad05-ff7074387447': No such

/var: Reiserfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with standard
journal
Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
Filesystem is clean
fsck died with exit status 0
...fail!
* File system check failed
A log is being saved in /var/log/fsck/checkfs if that location is writable.
Please repair the file system manually.


And then doesn't give the slightest clue as to how to do that.

I'd send the file, or at least the pertenant parts, but the floppy disk is
yet another problem, and this machine is not the one I'm currently emailing
from. Both machines share one monitor, (plug/unplug), so I have to write this
all down by hand, and then type it in by hand. Fun stuff. I think I'll have a
partial work around for that tomorrow, but I'll still have to type it in on
this box. *Sigh*

Bill


--
************************************************** ******************************
* *
RKBA! * Blessings on thee, oh Israel!!! * 4-19!
* *
************************************************** ******************************

An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured by | All Matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by Colt; | --Max Planck | weapon, sell his
hand = Freedom | Dial | In the beginning was the | garment, and buy a
on every side!! | 1-911-A1 | Word. --The Holy Bible | sword. --Jesus Christ

************************************************** ******************************

Constitutional Government is dead! LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!

************************************************** ******************************

--
kubuntu-users mailing list
kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
 
Old 12-02-2007, 12:05 AM
Bill Vance
 
Default Setup woes

On Sat Dec 1 00:18:39 2007 Bill Vance wrote:
>
>Howdy folks;
>
>Finally getting back to the job at hand, dealling with one of the many distro/
>install problems.
>
>Ok, starting up the 7.04 system installed, sorta crashes, (not completely),
>with the following error message(s). There's a lot more afterwards, but one
>thing at a time, (this isn't the only faulty partition, but is the one fsck
>is dying on so far.
>
>
>/var: Reisrfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with standard
>journal
>Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
>Filesystem is clean
>Failed to open the device 'UUID=96e20c1e-6919-4621-ad05-ff7074387447': No such


OOPS! That last line should end with, "No such file or directory". More on
this problem, see below.


>/var: Reiserfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with standard
>journal
>Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
>Filesystem is clean
>fsck died with exit status 0
> ...fail!
>* File system check failed
>A log is being saved in /var/log/fsck/checkfs if that location is writable.
>Please repair the file system manually.
>
>
>And then doesn't give the slightest clue as to how to do that.
>
>I'd send the file, or at least the pertenant parts, but the floppy disk is
>yet another problem, and this machine is not the one I'm currently emailing
>from. Both machines share one monitor, (plug/unplug), so I have to write this
>all down by hand, and then type it in by hand. Fun stuff. I think I'll have a
>partial work around for that tomorrow, but I'll still have to type it in on
>this box. *Sigh*
>
>Bill

Well, I found something that just might be the source of this and several other
problems, not to mention my current wailling and gnashing of teeth. A file
no-ones mentioned yet, "/var/log/fsck/checkroot", says that, "/", is mounted
read only. Thats a new one on me, but considering the system wide implications,
and before I do anything too stupid, is there an optimal way of dealling with
this? Umount/mount from the boot shell? Other options?

Bill


--
************************************************** ******************************
* *
RKBA! * Blessings on thee, oh Israel!!! * 4-19!
* *
************************************************** ******************************

An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured by | All Matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by Colt; | --Max Planck | weapon, sell his
hand = Freedom | Dial | In the beginning was the | garment, and buy a
on every side!! | 1-911-A1 | Word. --The Holy Bible | sword. --Jesus Christ

************************************************** ******************************

Constitutional Government is dead! LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!

************************************************** ******************************

---------- end forwarded message from Bill Vance ----------

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Old 12-02-2007, 07:24 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Setup woes

Bill Vance wrote:
> On Sat Dec 1 00:18:39 2007 Bill Vance wrote:
> >Ok, starting up the 7.04 system installed, sorta crashes, (not
> > completely), with the following error message(s). There's a lot more
> > afterwards, but one thing at a time, (this isn't the only faulty
> > partition, but is the one fsck is dying on so far.
> >
> >
> >/var: Reisrfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with
> > standard journal
> >Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
> >Filesystem is clean
> >Failed to open the device 'UUID=96e20c1e-6919-4621-ad05-ff7074387447':
> > No such
>
> OOPS! That last line should end with, "No such file or directory".
> More on this problem, see below.

It seems the script which starts the fsck program can't find the device
with the UUID mentioned above. Please check your /etc/fstab what device
should be using that UUID and compare it with the output of

vol_id devicename

where you replace "devicename" with the appropriate name (/dev/something)
from the fstab line for your UUID.

> >/var: Reiserfs super block in block 16 on 0x805 of format 3.6 with
> > standard journal
> >Blocks (total/free): 2640672/2517442 by 4096 bytes
> >Filesystem is clean
> >fsck died with exit status 0
> > ...fail!
> >* File system check failed
> >A log is being saved in /var/log/fsck/checkfs if that location is
> > writable. Please repair the file system manually.
> >
> >
> >And then doesn't give the slightest clue as to how to do that.

You would have to run fsck manually for the device with errors, but it may
not be mounted rw when you run fsck.

> Well, I found something that just might be the source of this and
> several other problems, not to mention my current wailling and gnashing
> of teeth. A file no-ones mentioned yet, "/var/log/fsck/checkroot",
> says that, "/", is mounted read only. Thats a new one on me, but
> considering the system wide implications, and before I do anything too
> stupid, is there an optimal way of dealling with this? Umount/mount
> from the boot shell? Other options?

If your "/" file system is mounted ro, the system can't work properly. You
could check that in a terminal with the command "mount". If it is still
mounted ro, you can run the command

sudo fsck devicename

where you replace the devicename for your "/" file system. If it is
mounted rw, I would suggest to boot from a live CD and do the fsck for
all partitions except swap partitions from there without mounting any
disks. I think it can be done from the recovery mode, but I can't tell
you how to do that.


Nils

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