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Old 06-24-2010, 07:45 PM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday 24 Jun 2010 08:27:19 giovanni_re wrote:
> What's the proper set of packages, & setup actions, to get PulseAudio
> working properly on KUbuntu 10.4?

There isn't a 'proper' way to enable pulseaudio under Kubuntu, as it's not supported and it doesn't work properly. You can get it to run by installing 'pulseaudio' and 'pavucontrol' as a minimum. padevchooser is obsolete and not required. pavucontrol is the pulseaudio volume control and audio routing application. You should use the Xine backend for Phonon (phonon-xine) and make sure you have the xine pulseaudio package installed, the gstreamer backend is broken. Also, last I heard, the Xine backend also has issues.

You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be fixed in Lucid.

Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and does not work properly.

Mark

>
> == Background
> To assist in Skype setup on a KUbuntu 10.4 system, a friend familiar
> with PA on Ubuntu suggested I install some specific PA packages:
> padevchooser & pavucontrol. I installed those 2 packages. Which gave
> me:
> dpkg -l | grep PulseAudio
> ii gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio 0.10.21-1ubuntu3
> GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio
> ii libpulse-browse0
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio client
> libraries (zeroconf suppor
> ii libpulse-mainloop-glib0
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio client
> libraries (glib support)
> ii libpulse0
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio client
> libraries
> ii padevchooser 0.9.3-2ubuntu4
> PulseAudio Device Chooser
> ii paman 0.9.4-1ubuntu2
> PulseAudio Manager
> ii paprefs 0.9.9-2ubuntu1
> PulseAudio Preferences
> ii pavucontrol 0.9.9-1
> PulseAudio Volume Control
> ii pavumeter 0.9.3-1ubuntu1
> PulseAudio Volume Meter
> ii pulseaudio
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio sound server
> ii pulseaudio-esound-compat
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio ESD
> compatibility layer
> ii pulseaudio-module-gconf
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 GConf module for
> PulseAudio sound server
> ii pulseaudio-module-x11
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 X11 module for
> PulseAudio sound server
> ii pulseaudio-module-zeroconf
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 Zeroconf module for
> PulseAudio sound server
> ii pulseaudio-utils
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 Command line tools for
> the PulseAudio sound
>
>
> I see here:
> http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio
> "The following obsolete or out-of-date UI tools have been Developed for
> PulseAudio as well:
> * PulseAudio Manager
> * PulseAudio Volume Meter
> * PulseAudio Device Chooser "
>
> So, the chooser is out of date. There's no indication on that page what
> it has been replaced with, if anything.
>
> So, firstly, what is the proper set of packages to get a proper PA
> system installed on KUbuntu?
>
> I see here:
> http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup
> "Install All Utilities
> Make sure to install all auxiliary GUI tools for the PulseAudio sound
> server:
> * PulseAudio Volume Control
> * PulseAudio Volume Meter
> * PulseAudio Manager OBSOLETE
> * PulseAudio Device Chooser OBSOLETE
> * PulseAudio Preferences
> The packages are pavucontrol pavumeter paman padevchooser paprefs. "
>
> So, someone should update that page & remove those "oblolete" packages
> from the
> "Make sure to install" list! And make sure the resultant list is
> correct.
>
>
> Moreover, there should be a list of the proper .deb packages to install
> for an Ubuntu (I'm guessing the #1 most used GNU/Linux distro).
>
> What packages should be installed?
> Would installing just the
> ii pulseaudio
> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14 PulseAudio sound server
> package be sufficient? Or, should others be installed as well.
>
>
> What GUI tools should be installed to allow a user to easily monitor &
> see what settings are in place in the PA system - especially with a view
> to debugging to determine why some audio on the system isn't working,
> like "why can Audacity output properly, but DragonPlayer makes no
> output?" {which is my current problem}.
>
> All that info should be on that web page.
>
>
> =====
> "Current Status
> The PulseAudio daemon and utilities are still under heavy development.
> Although they are generally considered stable, they haven't seen enough
> testing to warrant a first completely stable release."
>
> So, what are the important things to be aware of?
> And what are estimated dates for future feature releases?
>
> That is crucial info, given that
> http://pulseaudio.org/
> shows no releases since Nov 2009 - 6 months ago.
>
>
> ===== Home page improvements:
> The PA home page would be greatly improved for potential users if
> several items were added to it:
> 1) A few sentences about "what is the purpose of PA? What uses/needs
> does it fulfull? For users? For developers?
> 2) Here is the suggested set of sw you should install.
>
> ======
> I'm sending this question to the KUbuntu & PulseAudio mailing lists.
>
> =========
> So, what is the proper set of packages to get a proper PA system
> installed on KUbuntu?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
>

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Old 06-24-2010, 07:56 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:

> You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA routing to
> talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at all. This problem
> is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be fixed in Lucid.
>
> Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and does
> not work properly.
>
> Mark

I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
<sighs> Ric



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Old 06-24-2010, 08:18 PM
Reinhold Rumberger
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
> > routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at
> > all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
> > fixed in Lucid.
> >
> > Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and
> > does not work properly.
>
> I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
> <sighs> Ric

Why would they fix something they don't support?

--Reinhold

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Old 06-24-2010, 08:45 PM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday 24 Jun 2010 21:18:13 Reinhold Rumberger wrote:
> On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > > You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
> > > routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at
> > > all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
> > > fixed in Lucid.
> > >
> > > Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and
> > > does not work properly.
> >
> > I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
> > <sighs> Ric
>
> Why would they fix something they don't support?
>
> --Reinhold
>
>
As Reinhold says, it's not supported.

Also the instructions you've found for Skype appear to refer to using it under Gnome (the references to GStreamer confirm this), so you may find them misleading. Your problem with Dragon Player not working could be down to you using the GStreamer backend instead of the Xine backend for Phonon.

> ===== Home page improvements:
> The PA home page would be greatly improved for potential users if
> several items were added to it:
> 1) A few sentences about "what is the purpose of PA? What uses/needs
> does it fulfull? For users? For developers?

Pulseaudio is a sound server. It permits multiple applications to play audio simultaneously. It is a replacement for the esound engine under Gnome. It also provides on-the-fly audio routing per-application, and per-application volume controls, as well as network audio. (As an aside, I love it, it's great).

> 2) Here is the suggested set of sw you should install.

In any up to date distro where it is supported (eg Ubuntu 10.04), it will be preinstalled and preconfigured, as it's pretty much a requirement for Gnome these days. Under KDE there is a feeling that it's not required as KDE has Phonon. In my view (and it seems only the Kubuntu devs disagree with me on this) this is a mistake, as Phonon does not provide half the functionality of pulseaudio.

A lot of work went into KDE over the last 6 months to make it pulseaudio-friendly. However these changes arrived slightly too late for the 10.04 Kubuntu release and there were build issues and packaging problems that would have been too risky to address at the late stage when the problem was identified. Not to mention the fact there appear to be two versions of Phonon upstream. I raised the bug, but I didn't spot it until the 10.04 RC.

Mark

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Old 06-24-2010, 09:03 PM
Steve Morris
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On 25/06/10 06:45, Mark Greenwood wrote:

On Thursday 24 Jun 2010 21:18:13 Reinhold Rumberger wrote:


On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:


On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:


You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at
all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
fixed in Lucid.

Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and
does not work properly.


I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
<sighs> Ric


Why would they fix something they don't support?

--Reinhold




As Reinhold says, it's not supported.

Also the instructions you've found for Skype appear to refer to using it under Gnome (the references to GStreamer confirm this), so you may find them misleading. Your problem with Dragon Player not working could be down to you using the GStreamer backend instead of the Xine backend for Phonon.


Just some info on this topic. I use another linux distribution as well
as Kubuntu/Ubuntu which has standardised on Pulse as "the" sound
solution. That distribution does/will not support the use of Xine as the
backend to Pulse on any desktop flavour, they force the use of
Gstreamer. They also go so far as to say that if anybody using Xine as
their backend has problems with Pulse not working properly, it is
because they are using Xine and not Gstreamer. If I remember correctly
they are also saying that they are using Gstreamer as the backend
because that is what upstream wants.


regards,
Steve


===== Home page improvements:
The PA home page would be greatly improved for potential users if
several items were added to it:
1) A few sentences about "what is the purpose of PA? What uses/needs
does it fulfull? For users? For developers?


Pulseaudio is a sound server. It permits multiple applications to play audio simultaneously. It is a replacement for the esound engine under Gnome. It also provides on-the-fly audio routing per-application, and per-application volume controls, as well as network audio. (As an aside, I love it, it's great).



2) Here is the suggested set of sw you should install.


In any up to date distro where it is supported (eg Ubuntu 10.04), it will be preinstalled and preconfigured, as it's pretty much a requirement for Gnome these days. Under KDE there is a feeling that it's not required as KDE has Phonon. In my view (and it seems only the Kubuntu devs disagree with me on this) this is a mistake, as Phonon does not provide half the functionality of pulseaudio.

A lot of work went into KDE over the last 6 months to make it pulseaudio-friendly. However these changes arrived slightly too late for the 10.04 Kubuntu release and there were build issues and packaging problems that would have been too risky to address at the late stage when the problem was identified. Not to mention the fact there appear to be two versions of Phonon upstream. I raised the bug, but I didn't spot it until the 10.04 RC.

Mark


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Old 06-24-2010, 09:23 PM
Mark Greenwood
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday 24 Jun 2010 22:03:53 Steve Morris wrote:
> On 25/06/10 06:45, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > On Thursday 24 Jun 2010 21:18:13 Reinhold Rumberger wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
> >>>> routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at
> >>>> all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
> >>>> fixed in Lucid.
> >>>>
> >>>> Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and
> >>>> does not work properly.
> >>>>
> >>> I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
> >>> <sighs> Ric
> >>>
> >> Why would they fix something they don't support?
> >>
> >> --Reinhold
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > As Reinhold says, it's not supported.
> >
> > Also the instructions you've found for Skype appear to refer to using it under Gnome (the references to GStreamer confirm this), so you may find them misleading. Your problem with Dragon Player not working could be down to you using the GStreamer backend instead of the Xine backend for Phonon.
> >
> >
> Just some info on this topic. I use another linux distribution as well
> as Kubuntu/Ubuntu which has standardised on Pulse as "the" sound
> solution. That distribution does/will not support the use of Xine as the
> backend to Pulse on any desktop flavour, they force the use of
> Gstreamer. They also go so far as to say that if anybody using Xine as
> their backend has problems with Pulse not working properly, it is
> because they are using Xine and not Gstreamer. If I remember correctly
> they are also saying that they are using Gstreamer as the backend
> because that is what upstream wants.

Unfortunately, the GStreamer backend doesn't support a lot of formats that the Xine backend does support - including x264 and DVB. This is such a massive limitation that it makes it useless.

Personally, I use mplayer... :-)

Mark

>
> regards,
> Steve
>
> >> ===== Home page improvements:
> >> The PA home page would be greatly improved for potential users if
> >> several items were added to it:
> >> 1) A few sentences about "what is the purpose of PA? What uses/needs
> >> does it fulfull? For users? For developers?
> >>
> > Pulseaudio is a sound server. It permits multiple applications to play audio simultaneously. It is a replacement for the esound engine under Gnome. It also provides on-the-fly audio routing per-application, and per-application volume controls, as well as network audio. (As an aside, I love it, it's great).
> >
> >
> >> 2) Here is the suggested set of sw you should install.
> >>
> > In any up to date distro where it is supported (eg Ubuntu 10.04), it will be preinstalled and preconfigured, as it's pretty much a requirement for Gnome these days. Under KDE there is a feeling that it's not required as KDE has Phonon. In my view (and it seems only the Kubuntu devs disagree with me on this) this is a mistake, as Phonon does not provide half the functionality of pulseaudio.
> >
> > A lot of work went into KDE over the last 6 months to make it pulseaudio-friendly. However these changes arrived slightly too late for the 10.04 Kubuntu release and there were build issues and packaging problems that would have been too risky to address at the late stage when the problem was identified. Not to mention the fact there appear to be two versions of Phonon upstream. I raised the bug, but I didn't spot it until the 10.04 RC.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
>

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Old 06-25-2010, 01:02 AM
Kevin O'Brien
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On 06/24/2010 04:45 PM, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> In any up to date distro where it is supported (eg Ubuntu 10.04), it
> will be preinstalled and preconfigured, as it's pretty much a
> requirement for Gnome these days. Under KDE there is a feeling that
> it's not required as KDE has Phonon. In my view (and it seems only the
> Kubuntu devs disagree with me on this) this is a mistake, as Phonon
> does not provide half the functionality of pulseaudio.
> A lot of work went into KDE over the last 6 months to make it pulseaudio-friendly. However these changes arrived slightly too late for the 10.04 Kubuntu release and there were build issues and packaging problems that would have been too risky to address at the late stage when the problem was identified. Not to mention the fact there appear to be two versions of Phonon upstream. I raised the bug, but I didn't spot it until the 10.04 RC.
>
> Mark
>
That would be nice. I know that so far I have mostly had to rip out
every trace of pulseaudio to get sound to work on my Kubuntu boxes,
which led me to wonder why it was installed in the first place. It sure
would be nice if I could install Kubuntu and have sound "just work".

Regards,

--
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
nadreck@palain.com Linux User #333216

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot- proof programs, and the Universe trying
to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
-- Rich Cook

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Old 06-25-2010, 01:26 AM
Clay Weber
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday, June 24, 2010 09:02:35 pm Kevin O'Brien wrote:
> On 06/24/2010 04:45 PM, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > In any up to date distro where it is supported (eg Ubuntu 10.04),
it
> > will be preinstalled and preconfigured, as it's pretty much a
> > requirement for Gnome these days. Under KDE there is a feeling
that
> > it's not required as KDE has Phonon. In my view (and it seems
only the
> > Kubuntu devs disagree with me on this) this is a mistake, as
Phonon
> > does not provide half the functionality of pulseaudio.
> > A lot of work went into KDE over the last 6 months to make it
> > pulseaudio-friendly. However these changes arrived slightly too
late for
> > the 10.04 Kubuntu release and there were build issues and
packaging
> > problems that would have been too risky to address at the late
stage
> > when the problem was identified. Not to mention the fact there
appear to
> > be two versions of Phonon upstream. I raised the bug, but I didn't
spot
> > it until the 10.04 RC.
> >
> > Mark
>
> That would be nice. I know that so far I have mostly had to rip out
> every trace of pulseaudio to get sound to work on my Kubuntu
boxes,
> which led me to wonder why it was installed in the first place. It sure
> would be nice if I could install Kubuntu and have sound "just work".
>
> Regards,

Pulse is *NOT* installed in Kubuntu be default.

In my case, I installed it because it allowed audio from flash (hulu,
Boxee and XBMC) to play through HDMI to my television reliably and
dependably. no amount of configuration and tweaking and praying
would get this to work correctly, even after turning off my on-board
sound card. Nothing Flash based would play over HDMI until I tried
installing the dreaded pulseaudio. Which was as simple as apt-get
install pulseaudio.

Not saying it should or needs to be used by everyone.

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Old 06-25-2010, 03:16 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 22:18 +0200, Reinhold Rumberger wrote:
> On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > > You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
> > > routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio at
> > > all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
> > > fixed in Lucid.
> > >
> > > Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported, and
> > > does not work properly.
> >
> > I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
> > <sighs> Ric
>
> Why would they fix something they don't support?

Forgive me for being dense, but the comment made which I was replying to
was that it would "be fixed in Maverick", which I assume is the next
release?? Ergo, would it not be fixed for the LTS release which is
Lucid?

One thing is for sure, you cannot remove all of the pulseaudio packages
without major breakage to the system, so that leads me to believe that
there is a measure of support for pulse within the Kubuntu scheme of
things, especially if you cannot remove it.

It would suit me just fine to remove it completely and rely on alsa
totally. But, as I just mentioned, that apparently is not the case.
Anyone else want some of this? I suggest it be totally fixed or totally
removed. Let's hear it from the choir. Ric




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Old 06-25-2010, 03:37 AM
Clay Weber
 
Default Proper PulseAudio installation for KUbuntu 10.4 ; jor KUbuntu

On Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:16:30 pm Ric Moore wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 22:18 +0200, Reinhold Rumberger wrote:
> > On Thursday 24 June 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 20:45 +0100, Mark Greenwood wrote:
> > > > You'll find it mostly works, but KDE apps will all use ALSA
> > > > routing to talk to pulseaudio, or will not produce any audio
at
> > > > all. This problem is fixed in Maverick, but is unlikely to be
> > > > fixed in Lucid.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, pulseaudio under Kubuntu 10.04 is not supported,
and
> > > > does not work properly.
> > >
> > > I thought Lucid was LTS?? Why wouldn't it be "fixed"?
> > > <sighs> Ric
> >
> > Why would they fix something they don't support?
>
> Forgive me for being dense, but the comment made which I was
replying to
> was that it would "be fixed in Maverick", which I assume is the next
> release?? Ergo, would it not be fixed for the LTS release which is
> Lucid?
>
> One thing is for sure, you cannot remove all of the pulseaudio
packages
> without major breakage to the system, so that leads me to believe
that
> there is a measure of support for pulse within the Kubuntu scheme
of
> things, especially if you cannot remove it.
>
> It would suit me just fine to remove it completely and rely on alsa
> totally. But, as I just mentioned, that apparently is not the case.
> Anyone else want some of this? I suggest it be totally fixed or totally
> removed. Let's hear it from the choir. Ric

Again the pulseaudio *sound server* is NOT installed in Kubuntu by
default. There ARE a couple of *client library* files that help
applications communicate with pulse - think of running something KDE
in an Ubuntu/Gnome/Pulseaudio environment.

but there is no pulseaudio sound server running in Kubuntu unless
one installs it themselves

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