Dear everybody

Recently I installed a dual boot system at a laptop of friends of me:
Kubuntu 10.04 LTS next to Windows XP. The friends in question are no
computer experts, but also not totally computer illiterate. Moreover,
they both have a beta background - biology, physics, mathematics,
etc. That's why, I thought the configuration I worked out for them
would work for them. However, this was not the case. One of the
problems they mentioned was their difficulty to convert .odt files (OO
Writer) into .doc (Microsoft Word 97-2000). In theory, they correctly
acted: File > Save as > Microsoft Word 97 - 2000 - as I always do ever
since I work with OpenOffice. But the difference between those 2
friends on one hand and me on the other hand is apparently the way to
deal with computer problems. In the case of conversion into .doc, I
quickly managed to find out how to do it in such a way that it works.
But this is apparently more difficult for those who do lack a certain
"feeling" with computers. On the other hand: an ability to work with
computers apparently does not automatically imply an ability to
effectively clarify something to someone who has less feeling with
computers. The basic problem is in fact, that the friends in question
do not have the patience and creativity needed to solve the countless
number of little problems which are still in Linux. Even though I
cannot consider myself as an expert, I do manage to solve about 95% of
such problems myself and about 4% via "Kubuntu users" and other Linux
communities and 1% via other Linux users helping me directly. But
still - not everything works "automatically" or "out of the box".
That's why, I do not manage to convince those friends - they are going
back now to Windows XP.

I am afraid many computer users are like those friends - if an OS does
not quickly work "out of the box" at daily level, they will not be
able and willing to experiment with it. That is probably one of the
reasons still about 90%? of the computers world wide work with an
inferior system like Windows. That's why, I propose to shift our
priorities with respect to open source software development -
technical renewal is good, but making Linux more accessible for less
experienced users is better. The main question is now: how can we make
Linux more accessible for a bigger public?

Respectfully yours,

Bas Roufs.

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Bas Roufs wrote:
> Dear everybody
>
> <snipped>
>
> I am afraid many computer users are like those friends - if an OS does
> not quickly work "out of the box" at daily level, they will not be
> able and willing to experiment with it. That is probably one of the
> reasons still about 90%? of the computers world wide work with an
> inferior system like Windows. That's why, I propose to shift our
> priorities with respect to open source software development -
> technical renewal is good, but making Linux more accessible for less
> experienced users is better. The main question is now: how can we make
> Linux more accessible for a bigger public?
>
> Respectfully yours,
>
> Bas Roufs.
>

This comparison seems to be an "apples to oranges" one. MS-Windows is
controlled by one company - Microsoft. Compare this to Linux - many
different distributions and many variants of all of those
distributions. To make Linux more uniform would defeat the whole
purpose of FOSS. A double edged sword indeed.

My $0.02 worth (US currency.) YMMV.



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Bas Roufs wrote:
> Dear everybody
>
> Recently I installed a dual boot system at a laptop of friends of me:
> Kubuntu 10.04 LTS next to Windows XP. The friends in question are no
> computer experts, but also not totally computer illiterate. Moreover,
> they both have a beta background - biology, physics, mathematics,
> etc. That's why, I thought the configuration I worked out for them
> would work for them. However, this was not the case. One of the
> problems they mentioned was their difficulty to convert .odt files (OO
> Writer) into .doc (Microsoft Word 97-2000). In theory, they correctly
> acted: File > Save as > Microsoft Word 97 - 2000 - as I always do ever
> since I work with OpenOffice. But the difference between those 2
> friends on one hand and me on the other hand is apparently the way to
> deal with computer problems. In the case of conversion into .doc, I
> quickly managed to find out how to do it in such a way that it works.
> But this is apparently more difficult for those who do lack a certain
> "feeling" with computers. On the other hand: an ability to work with
> computers apparently does not automatically imply an ability to
> effectively clarify something to someone who has less feeling with
> computers. The basic problem is in fact, that the friends in question
> do not have the patience and creativity needed to solve the countless
> number of little problems which are still in Linux. Even though I
> cannot consider myself as an expert, I do manage to solve about 95% of
> such problems myself and about 4% via "Kubuntu users" and other Linux
> communities and 1% via other Linux users helping me directly. But
> still - not everything works "automatically" or "out of the box".
> That's why, I do not manage to convince those friends - they are going
> back now to Windows XP.
>
> I am afraid many computer users are like those friends - if an OS does
> not quickly work "out of the box" at daily level, they will not be
> able and willing to experiment with it. That is probably one of the
> reasons still about 90%? of the computers world wide work with an
> inferior system like Windows. That's why, I propose to shift our
> priorities with respect to open source software development -
> technical renewal is good, but making Linux more accessible for less
> experienced users is better. The main question is now: how can we make
> Linux more accessible for a bigger public?
I sort of agree with you. However, the kind of users you are referring
to would probably have headaches with Windows7 (not to mention Vista)
and Office2007 as well. I have a number of said users who happily
confuse Office (the software) with Windows (the OS) and who do not
understand why they can not open files user of Office2007 send to them etc.

Having said that, when I configure a new Kubuntu computer I try to take
into account the user in question. I set Openoffice to save in the MS
Office formats automatically, I set up the menu, printers and shares etc
and finally do my best to lock down the Plasma Desktop from too many
changes (he, you should see what can be accomplished with widgets by
those who have little or no idea what these are).

As I see it you can never throw an entirely new system at a user and
think they are going to figure out by themselves - and going from XP to
Kubuntu 10.04 is a BIG change.

I have no solution but it does involve training and patience. The
attitude of the users play a big role, and here is the "flair" or
"instinct" you talk about. Some figure things out and find that to be
exciting, others hate when something has changed.

Sinclair

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I reckon that in the case of most people (we are not most people) if their
driving skills were comparable to their computer skills we'd need ten times
as many hospitals.

The only reason they pass driving tests is because government policy forces
them to do so. Most people in the case of computers just aren't interested
and can't be bothered. They just want to buy it from the shop like a washing
machine, take it home and use it. They probably spend far more time reading
the instruction manual for the microwave oven or DVD recorder than they ever
spend learning about an operating system.

Yes it's depressing but I believe it to be true. I've offered to help loads of
people learn to use computers properly, and only one has ever shown the
slightest interest. She's running Hardy, like me.

Dave

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lunedì 31 maggio 2010 Bas Roufs ha scritto:

> Dear everybody
>
> Recently I installed a dual boot system at a laptop of friends of me:
> Kubuntu 10.04 LTS next to Windows XP. The friends in question are no
> computer experts, but also not totally computer illiterate. Moreover,
> they both have a beta background - biology, physics, mathematics,
> etc. That's why, I thought the configuration I worked out for them
> would work for them. However, this was not the case. One of the
> problems they mentioned was their difficulty to convert .odt files (OO
> Writer) into .doc (Microsoft Word 97-2000). In theory, they correctly
> acted: File > Save as > Microsoft Word 97 - 2000 - as I always do ever
> since I work with OpenOffice. But the difference between those 2
> friends on one hand and me on the other hand is apparently the way to
> deal with computer problems. In the case of conversion into .doc, I
> quickly managed to find out how to do it in such a way that it works.
> But this is apparently more difficult for those who do lack a certain
> "feeling" with computers. On the other hand: an ability to work with
> computers apparently does not automatically imply an ability to
> effectively clarify something to someone who has less feeling with
> computers. The basic problem is in fact, that the friends in question
> do not have the patience and creativity needed to solve the countless
> number of little problems which are still in Linux. Even though I
> cannot consider myself as an expert, I do manage to solve about 95% of
> such problems myself and about 4% via "Kubuntu users" and other Linux
> communities and 1% via other Linux users helping me directly. But
> still - not everything works "automatically" or "out of the box".
> That's why, I do not manage to convince those friends - they are going
> back now to Windows XP.
>
> I am afraid many computer users are like those friends - if an OS does
> not quickly work "out of the box" at daily level, they will not be
> able and willing to experiment with it. That is probably one of the
> reasons still about 90%? of the computers world wide work with an
> inferior system like Windows. That's why, I propose to shift our
> priorities with respect to open source software development -
> technical renewal is good, but making Linux more accessible for less
> experienced users is better. The main question is now: how can we make
> Linux more accessible for a bigger public?

A question suddenly arose in my little head: why do people still use
proprietary formats and not open ones? Why do they do it? Which kind of
culture is this and why throughout, on the other side, the world people use
standards in other activities to understand and work to each others?
Let's start to learn and teach that in the software world everybody should use
standards. We need to change the way our mind think.
After that, you are completely free to use the app program you desire to
manage them. IMHO.

Regards,
--
Valter
Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
Kubuntu Linux: www.ubuntu.com
Usa OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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On Monday, May 31, 2010 08:56:00 am Bas Roufs wrote:
> Dear everybody
>
> Recently I installed a dual boot system at a laptop of friends of me:
> Kubuntu 10.04 LTS next to Windows XP. The friends in question are no
> computer experts, but also not totally computer illiterate. Moreover,
> they both have a beta background - biology, physics, mathematics,
> etc. That's why, I thought the configuration I worked out for them
> would work for them. However, this was not the case. One of the
> problems they mentioned was their difficulty to convert .odt files (OO
> Writer) into .doc (Microsoft Word 97-2000). In theory, they correctly
> acted: File > Save as > Microsoft Word 97 - 2000 - as I always do ever
> since I work with OpenOffice. But the difference between those 2
> friends on one hand and me on the other hand is apparently the way to
> deal with computer problems. In the case of conversion into .doc, I
> quickly managed to find out how to do it in such a way that it works.
> But this is apparently more difficult for those who do lack a certain
> "feeling" with computers. On the other hand: an ability to work with
> computers apparently does not automatically imply an ability to
> effectively clarify something to someone who has less feeling with
> computers. The basic problem is in fact, that the friends in question
> do not have the patience and creativity needed to solve the countless
> number of little problems which are still in Linux. Even though I
> cannot consider myself as an expert, I do manage to solve about 95% of
> such problems myself and about 4% via "Kubuntu users" and other Linux
> communities and 1% via other Linux users helping me directly. But
> still - not everything works "automatically" or "out of the box".
> That's why, I do not manage to convince those friends - they are going
> back now to Windows XP.
>
> I am afraid many computer users are like those friends - if an OS does
> not quickly work "out of the box" at daily level, they will not be
> able and willing to experiment with it. That is probably one of the
> reasons still about 90%? of the computers world wide work with an
> inferior system like Windows. That's why, I propose to shift our
> priorities with respect to open source software development -
> technical renewal is good, but making Linux more accessible for less
> experienced users is better. The main question is now: how can we make
> Linux more accessible for a bigger public?
>
> Respectfully yours,
>
> Bas Roufs.

Then there is this angle too:
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2010/05/semantics-is-restricting-linux-
desktop.html

I know that there are a lot of people like the girl from San Antonio.

--
Alan

"Now no one has to tell an old Aberdeene pub-crawler how to applaud, captain."
Montgomery Scott

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On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 14:56 +0200, Bas Roufs wrote:
> The main question is now: how can we make
> Linux more accessible for a bigger public?

Network manager really needs to be sorted out. I play merry Hell every
time I install new and need to set up my static IP address, to my sat
modem via my router. It insists that I use DHCP. It used to be easy and
straight forward to set up a static route. Maybe it's me, but I have
difficulty with it. Thanks! Ric




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On Tuesday, June 01, 2010, Ric Moore wrote:
> Network manager really needs to be sorted out. I play merry Hell every
> time I install new and need to set up my static IP address, to my sat
> modem via my router. It insists that I use DHCP. It used to be easy and
> straight forward to set up a static route. Maybe it's me, but I have
> difficulty with it. Thanks! Ric

Couldn't agree more. I have never gotten Network Manager to work with wifi,
just with a wired connection using DHCP.

But that's good enough.... it allows me to connect in order to install Wicd.
From there, everything is easy. :-)

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Hello Sinclair and Everybody Else

A few days ago, I shared you a recent experience on on non-effective
Linux promotion.....

> > Recently I installed a dual boot system at a laptop of friends of me:
> > Kubuntu 10.04 LTS next to Windows XP. *The friends in question are no
> > computer experts, but also not totally computer illiterate.

One of the useful suggestions you gave, Sinclair, was as follows:

> .... I set Openoffice to save in the MS Office formats automatically, ...........

This would solve about 90% of the problems the friends I told about
have. That's why, I have been trying to figure out how I could
configure OpenOffice in such a way, that it automatically saves in the
MS Office formats - notably .doc (Writer), .xls (Calc) and .ppd
(Presentation). I have looked via EXTRA > options. However, I did not
yet manage to find the exactly right approach. So, please, could you
tell a bit more concretely how you did manage to change the OpenOffice
settings with a view to automatically saving in the MS Office formats.

Respectfully Yours,

Bas.

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> This would solve about 90% of the problems the friends I told about
> have. That's why, I have been trying to figure out how I could
> configure OpenOffice in such a way, that it automatically saves in the
> MS Office formats - notably .doc (Writer), .xls (Calc) and .ppd
> (Presentation). I have looked via EXTRA > options. However, I did not
> yet manage to find the exactly right approach. So, please, could you
> tell a bit more concretely how you did manage to change the OpenOffice
> settings with a view to automatically saving in the MS Office formats.

Go to Tools > Options and then click expand the Load/Save section. Here
you will see the General section. In that section look at the Document
Type/Always Save As drop-downs. You simply select the document type (Text
document, HTML document, Spreadsheet, Presentation...) and match it with
the default save as type you want (You will probably want Microsoft
Word/Excel/Powerpoint option.

Once you have configured those, click OK and you're done.

Hope that helps.

Jack

> Respectfully Yours,
>
> Bas.
>
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sooooooooo yeah
monkeypantz.net


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