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Old 01-17-2008, 04:12 PM
Sylviane et Perry White
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies it's
> not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...

Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it, doesn't it?
The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its parts.

Perry

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Old 01-17-2008, 05:08 PM
Billie Walsh
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
>
>> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies it's
>> not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
>>
>
> Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it, doesn't it?
> The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its parts.
>
> Perry
>
>
However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
"whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .

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Old 01-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Chris Miller wrote:

> On Jan 16, 2008 9:59 AM, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> John DeCarlo wrote:
>>
>> > On Jan 15, 2008 4:21 PM, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> No. Just plain no. I always use IE on Windows for all my file
>> >> browsing.
>> >
>> > Believe what you want, then.
>>
>> Believe? You are the one who is acting on faith. I use IE as a file
>> manager - it has all the things you claim don't exist.
>
> Technically you use Explorer. **Internet** Explorer is something
> totally different.

Technically, I click on the Internet Explorer icon.
>
> You can use IE as a file manager, but it usually just opens Explorer
> in a new window, or at least that's what it's doing now on the public
> terminal I'm using at the moment.

No, it doesn't. First, I hate having browsers open new windows, so I set
the folder options to always open new folders in the same window. So then,
when I enter a C:... address in the IE address box, it opens the folder
complete with all file management options. I expect it's completely true
that it actually uses Explorer to do this, but my point through the whole
thread is that they are so closely integrated it's impossible from a user
viewpoint to see the difference.

Attached is a screenshot (at least if attachments get through gmane) - note
that it's clearly a file manager, but the Title says "Internet Explorer"
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:21 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Billie Walsh wrote:

> Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
>> On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
>>
>>> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies it's
>>> not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
>>>
>>
>> Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it, doesn't
>> it? The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its parts.

Er, no. You are not _all_ mankind, yet it's perfectly acceptable to say
that you _are_ mankind (odd, yes; archaic, certainly; but still correct).

> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .

Impeccable logic :-)
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:29 PM
"Andrew Jarrett"
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

On Jan 17, 2008 1:08 PM, Billie Walsh <bilwalsh@swbell.net> wrote:
> Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
> > On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
> >
> >> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies it's
> >> not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
> >>
> >
> > Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it, doesn't it?
> > The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its parts.
> >
> > Perry
> >
> >
> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .

Wow guys. Let's not get too philosophical with this. The guy is just
saying that KDE 4.0.0 has some flaws, but it is only a first release
and all of KDE 4 will not be this flawed.

Andrew

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Old 01-17-2008, 05:55 PM
Ignazio Palmisano
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Billie Walsh wrote:
>
>> Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
>>> On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
>>>
>>>> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies it's
>>>> not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
>>>>
>>> Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it, doesn't
>>> it? The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its parts.
>
> Er, no. You are not _all_ mankind, yet it's perfectly acceptable to say
> that you _are_ mankind (odd, yes; archaic, certainly; but still correct).
>
>> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
>> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .
>
> Impeccable logic :-)

Unfortunately it is wrong a container is not equal to the things it
contains, even if it only contains one; the only exception being a
container which contains itself.

My 2c: it just means: this is the first version we churn out, following
the usual naming conventions this would have been version 0.1 since it's
still unstable and incomplete but we already had too many previous
versions to restart the counter, and in the end what's all the fuss
about? Most of the code is brand new, therefore it has bugs (sad but
true when talking about software, it's called bleeding edge for a
reason). Hopefully it will improve, in the meantime leave the marketing
do the chatter (none will be able to stop that anyway )
I.


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Old 01-17-2008, 07:34 PM
Wulfy
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Ignazio Palmisano wrote:
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>
>> Billie Walsh wrote:
>>
>>
>>> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
>>> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .
>>>
>> Impeccable logic :-)
>>
>
> Unfortunately it is wrong a container is not equal to the things it
> contains, even if it only contains one; the only exception being a
> container which contains itself.

However, there is nothing outside of KDE4.0 that is KDE4, therefore KDE
4.0 contains KDE4 as much as KDE4 contains KDE 4.0 (at the moment).
Therefore the container contains the container (both ways!) so they are
equal! :@

[I think ;@D ]

/me wanders off muttering about convoluted logic.......

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Wulfmann

Wulf Credo:
Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack.
Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between.
Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark.
Copyright July 17, 1988 by Del Goetz


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Old 01-17-2008, 08:39 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Ignazio Palmisano wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> Billie Walsh wrote:
>>
>>> Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
>>>> On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies
>>>>> it's not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
>>>>>
>>>> Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it,
>>>> doesn't it? The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its
>>>> parts.
>>
>> Er, no. You are not _all_ mankind, yet it's perfectly acceptable to say
>> that you _are_ mankind (odd, yes; archaic, certainly; but still correct).
>>
>>> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
>>> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .
>>
>> Impeccable logic :-)
>
> Unfortunately it is wrong a container is not equal to the things it
> contains, even if it only contains one; the only exception being a
> container which contains itself.
>
Not buying it. KDE 4 isn't a container. At this time, it _is_ KDE 4.0.0.
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:24 AM
Ignazio Palmisano
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Ignazio Palmisano wrote:
>
>> Derek Broughton wrote:
>>> Billie Walsh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sylviane et Perry White wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday 17 January 2008 16:24, Wulfy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> By synecdoche[0], KDE 4.0 *is* KDE4... to say it's not KDE4 implies
>>>>>> it's not even *part* of KDE4, which is patently false...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well... I'm not mankind and that implies I'm not even part of it,
>>>>> doesn't it? The OP just meant you can't juge a set from one of its
>>>>> parts.
>>> Er, no. You are not _all_ mankind, yet it's perfectly acceptable to say
>>> that you _are_ mankind (odd, yes; archaic, certainly; but still correct).
>>>
>>>> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
>>>> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .
>>> Impeccable logic :-)
>> Unfortunately it is wrong a container is not equal to the things it
>> contains, even if it only contains one; the only exception being a
>> container which contains itself.
>>
> Not buying it. KDE 4 isn't a container. At this time, it _is_ KDE 4.0.0.


from what I've read that's what the developers mean when they refer
to KDE4, a series of software products (container, class, series,
category... change logic name change the name of the thing, but it's
always the same and it's a set). On the other hand, I think for many out
here KDE4 refers to the most recent version of KDE (so that we will call
KDE4 KDE 4.4.4, when it will be around), in which case KDE4 is KDE 4.0.0
no one is wrong or right in this case, the trouble is using the same
name meaning different things.

I.


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Old 01-18-2008, 09:40 AM
Ignazio Palmisano
 
Default KDE 4.0.0!

Wulfy wrote:
> Ignazio Palmisano wrote:
>> Derek Broughton wrote:
>>
>>> Billie Walsh wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, as there are no other parts at this time, KDE 4.0.0 would the
>>>> "whole" of KDE4. Therefore KDE 4.0.0 = KDE4 and KDE4 = KDE 4.0.0 .
>>>>
>>> Impeccable logic :-)
>>>
>> Unfortunately it is wrong a container is not equal to the things it
>> contains, even if it only contains one; the only exception being a
>> container which contains itself.
>
> However, there is nothing outside of KDE4.0 that is KDE4, therefore KDE
> 4.0 contains KDE4 as much as KDE4 contains KDE 4.0 (at the moment).
> Therefore the container contains the container (both ways!) so they are
> equal! :@
>
> [I think ;@D ]
>
> /me wanders off muttering about convoluted logic.......
>

/me been wandering around something similar long time ago...

KDE 4.0.0 is a piece of software and it is a container of pieces of
software, which is the same kind of KDE4... but then the set of all
possible sets is contained in itself? Can't remember which famous
mathematician had a hard time defining this problem, I think it was
about first and second order logic, and in the end if you can put a
container in itself then the logical results take a while to be
computed... like forever

/me feels off topic and in need of a coffee, got a headache because of
these containers...
I.

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