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Old 03-06-2009, 11:50 AM
Nigel Ridley
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Hi all,

I have put the finishing touches to the 'Useful Start Page'.
It is full of links (in nice drop-down menus - pure CSS ones) and also many useful search boxes.
It is XHTML and CSS compliant.

You can see it here:

http://www.prayingforisrael.net/Useful_Start_Page/useful_start.html

and, if you like it, or want to adapt it or change it around, you can download it from here:

http://www.prayingforisrael.net/Useful_Start_Page/Useful_Start_Page.zip

It is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

Thank you to those that helped with some of the technical aspects...

Enjoy!

Blessings,

Nigel

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Old 03-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Matthew Flaschen
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Nigel Ridley wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have put the finishing touches to the 'Useful Start Page'.
> It is full of links (in nice drop-down menus - pure CSS ones) and also many useful search boxes.
> It is XHTML and CSS compliant.

Congratulations! W3C CSS validator complains about text-shadow, but I
think that's a bug in the parser (it's valid for CSS 3). However,
instead of:

<style type="text/css" media="screen">
/* <![CDATA[ */
@import url(layout.css);


/* ]]> */
</style>

why not just:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="layout.css" />

Matt Flaschen


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Old 03-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Nigel Ridley
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> Nigel Ridley wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have put the finishing touches to the 'Useful Start Page'.
>> It is full of links (in nice drop-down menus - pure CSS ones) and also many useful search boxes.
>> It is XHTML and CSS compliant.
>
> Congratulations! W3C CSS validator complains about text-shadow, but I
> think that's a bug in the parser (it's valid for CSS 3).

Yes. On the W3C validator page you have to click on the 'Options' and choose either CSS2 or CSS3;
the default is CSS2.1 ?? which complains about the 'text-shadow'.
The text-shadow only works in Firefox 3.1 and above (it's a really nice effect). Unfortunately
Konqueror doesn't seem to understand the word-spacing nor the letter-spacing CSS and so it's a
bit squashed up.

> However,
> instead of:
>
> <style type="text/css" media="screen">
> /* <![CDATA[ */
> @import url(layout.css);
>
>
> /* ]]> */
> </style>
>
> why not just:
>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="layout.css" />

Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by Craig Grannel:
[quote]
The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style sheet but don't
understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and often in unusable websites for those
unfortunate enough to have to deal with arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from
such browsers by using a command that they don't understand and so will ignore. This is often
referred to as the @import method.
[end quote]

The above mentioned book is really good for those looking to design standards compliant web sites.
Had to do that so that Graig [hopefully] won't get upset with me for quoting form his
[copyrighted] book :-)

>
> Matt Flaschen
>

Blessings,

Nigel



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Old 03-06-2009, 08:11 PM
Matthew Flaschen
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Nigel Ridley wrote:
> Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by Craig Grannel:
> [quote]
> The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style sheet but don't
> understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and often in unusable websites for those
> unfortunate enough to have to deal with arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from
> such browsers by using a command that they don't understand and so will ignore. This is often
> referred to as the @import method.
> [end quote]

It's a dirty hack. Now, sometimes a dirty hack is exactly what you
need, but this is not one of those times. According to
http://www.digbyswift.com/development/css/filters/, the only three
browsers that don't support the syntax you used are Netscape 4 (Win),
Mac IE 5.2, and Netscape 4 (Mac Classic).

Not one of those browsers was released in the last 7 years, and not one
of them runs on Linux.

Matt Flaschen

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Old 03-07-2009, 02:34 AM
Nigel Ridley
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> Nigel Ridley wrote:
>> Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by Craig Grannel:
>> [quote]
>> The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style sheet but don't
>> understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and often in unusable websites for those
>> unfortunate enough to have to deal with arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from
>> such browsers by using a command that they don't understand and so will ignore. This is often
>> referred to as the @import method.
>> [end quote]
>
> It's a dirty hack. Now, sometimes a dirty hack is exactly what you
> need, but this is not one of those times. According to
> http://www.digbyswift.com/development/css/filters/, the only three
> browsers that don't support the syntax you used are Netscape 4 (Win),
> Mac IE 5.2, and Netscape 4 (Mac Classic).
>
> Not one of those browsers was released in the last 7 years, and not one
> of them runs on Linux.
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
So I'll change it :-)
The book mentioned is about 3 years old - so perhaps it's about time to 'upgrade'!

Blessings,

Nigel


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Old 03-07-2009, 03:03 AM
David McGlone
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

On Friday 06 March 2009 10:34:33 pm Nigel Ridley wrote:
> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> > Nigel Ridley wrote:
> >> Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by
> >> Craig Grannel: [quote]
> >> The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style
> >> sheet but don't understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and
> >> often in unusable websites for those unfortunate enough to have to deal
> >> with arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from such
> >> browsers by using a command that they don't understand and so will
> >> ignore. This is often referred to as the @import method.
> >> [end quote]
> >
> > It's a dirty hack. Now, sometimes a dirty hack is exactly what you
> > need, but this is not one of those times. According to
> > http://www.digbyswift.com/development/css/filters/, the only three
> > browsers that don't support the syntax you used are Netscape 4 (Win),
> > Mac IE 5.2, and Netscape 4 (Mac Classic).
> >
> > Not one of those browsers was released in the last 7 years, and not one
> > of them runs on Linux.
> >
> > Matt Flaschen
>
> So I'll change it :-)
> The book mentioned is about 3 years old - so perhaps it's about time to
> 'upgrade'!

You shouldn't need to change it.

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Old 03-07-2009, 03:05 AM
Matthew Flaschen
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Nigel Ridley wrote:
> So I'll change it :-)
> The book mentioned is about 3 years old - so perhaps it's about time to 'upgrade'!

Indeed. Fundamental principles in computing don't change often, but the
details do constantly.

Best,

Matt Flaschen

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Old 03-07-2009, 03:36 AM
Nigel Ridley
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

David McGlone wrote:
> On Friday 06 March 2009 10:34:33 pm Nigel Ridley wrote:
>> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>> Nigel Ridley wrote:
>>>> Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by
>>>> Craig Grannel: [quote]
>>>> The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style
>>>> sheet but don't understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and
>>>> often in unusable websites for those unfortunate enough to have to deal
>>>> with arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from such
>>>> browsers by using a command that they don't understand and so will
>>>> ignore. This is often referred to as the @import method.
>>>> [end quote]
>>> It's a dirty hack. Now, sometimes a dirty hack is exactly what you
>>> need, but this is not one of those times. According to
>>> http://www.digbyswift.com/development/css/filters/, the only three
>>> browsers that don't support the syntax you used are Netscape 4 (Win),
>>> Mac IE 5.2, and Netscape 4 (Mac Classic).
>>>
>>> Not one of those browsers was released in the last 7 years, and not one
>>> of them runs on Linux.
>>>
>>> Matt Flaschen
>> So I'll change it :-)
>> The book mentioned is about 3 years old - so perhaps it's about time to
>> 'upgrade'!
>
> You shouldn't need to change it.
>

Anything for 'cleaner' code - and I like keeping up-to-date :-)

Blessings,

Nigel


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Old 03-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Useful Start Page revisited

Nigel Ridley wrote:

> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>> instead of:
>>
>> <style type="text/css" media="screen">
>> /* <![CDATA[ */
>> @import url(layout.css);
...
>> why not just:
>>
>> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="layout.css"
>> />
>
> Because it's good practice. To quote from 'Web Designer's Reference' by
> Craig Grannel:
> [quote]
> The problem with the link method is that obsolete browsers see the style
> sheet but don't understand it. This results in garbled layouts-- and often
> in unusable websites for those unfortunate enough to have to deal with
> arcane web browsers. The solution is to hide the CSS from such browsers by
> using a command that they don't understand and so will ignore. This is
> often referred to as the @import method.
> [end quote]

I really don't understand his point. I don't plan to support anything that
old... It may have been a good idea once, but I have a suspicion it messes
up caching. Since the script and style files are often the largest part of
any given page, I absolutely don't want to risk that.
>
> The above mentioned book is really good for those looking to design
> standards compliant web sites. Had to do that so that Graig [hopefully]
> won't get upset with me for quoting form his
> [copyrighted] book :-)

Upset or not, he doesn't have a reason or legal grounds. That's
called "fair use" - you've given a proper citation (though not perhaps well
enough formatted for university credit :-) ) and only a small quote.
--
derek


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