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Old 12-18-2011, 03:46 AM
Steve Riley
 
Default Nepomuk

I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE "feels
slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting with
building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are installed:

* MySQL for Akonadi
* Sqlite for Quassel
* Virtuoso for Nepomuk

Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to that as
well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance will
suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely there
has to be a better way.

--Steve


On Sunday 18 December 2011 09:39:28 Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>
> A few months back I saw a post on a nepomuk developers blog re the fact
> that:
>
> - external interfaces were poorly or not documented and frequently changed
>
> - return codes/exceptions were undocumented and frequently changed
>
> - errors went largely unlogged and were ignored
>
> - logging in general was almost non-existent
>
>
> I commented that this was a recipe for disaster - in the large corporate
> projects I worked on it was essential for core services to be well
> documented and *essential* for them to log every error, especially
> unexpected ones. It paid off in spades when you were trying to debug weird
> shit happening on the various remote and obscure setups we had to work
> with.
>
> Sure you have to keep service specifications flexible, especially in
> development as new requirements/problem emerge, but you also have to be able
> to say enough is enough and tie it down. And always always document and
> make it transparent.
>
> My comment was deleted.
>
> --
> Lindsay
>
> --
> kubuntu-users mailing list
> kubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users

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Old 12-18-2011, 05:25 AM
"O. Sinclair"
 
Default Nepomuk

On 17/12/11 14:32, Kaj Haulrich wrote:

On 12/17/2011 11:48 AM, Mark Greenwood wrote:


On 17 Dec 2011, at 05:50, O. Sinclair wrote:


This is, for starters, not a rant. I have little use for the whole
concept of the semantic desktop but I do get the possible advantages
of it. Once it works.

At this moment however it seems lost. I open "find" in Dolpin and
search for "current" as in "current state" or whatever and get x
number of mp3 files and such that has nothing at all to do with
current. Have no idea where Strigi and friends pick up "current" from
Swedish band Kent and their songs from the album "Röd" (red).


If you disable Strigi, the find functionality reverts to the way it
used to do it which, unsurprisingly, works.



The other main complaint: why the constant reindexing? I just found
Nepomukindexer chewing 25% CPU indexing pdf files in a folder I have
named "manuals". Where I have not changed or even OPENED a file for
months. And that is despite the indexer claiming to be "done" now and
then.


This simply has to be a bug. It does it to me too. I have disabled
Strigi by simply disabling it in system settings and I haven't noticed
it doing anything unusual recently.



Can anyone please explain how it works and what is the main problem
at the moment?


It is *supposed* to allow you to search file names, contents, metadata
etc all from the same place - like a Mac does, only slower and less
reliably. However at the moment it appears to be a disjointed
hodgepodge of badly designed components that aren't finished and have
never been tested. It simply doesn't work and should never have been
included in a distribution release. This stuff ought to have been made
available through a 'testing' ppa while the main release was released
free from nepo-strigi-muk.

I'd like to add that of course, new features always seem to breed a
lot of resentment, especially in the linux world - people don't seem
to like change. However this nepomuk/strigi thing is not one of those
times when people have a rant for a while and then get over it. This
is pure and simple bad software that doesn't work properly and really
screws up our systems for the things we do day to day. If there is
anyone in the KDE world leading this whole project, then they should
be thrown over a barrel and whipped with sticks.

Mark




This is not "production ready" and I am not even making my dear wife
a candidate to try this out, on her computer I switch off all desktop
search functions.

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Once again: one can disable not only Strigi, but Nepomuk as well.
Eventually by unticking it in Service Manager. No need for the whole
Nepomuk / Akonadi / Soprano / Strigi rigmarole if you don't use KMail,
KAddressbook etc.. By doing so you'll get a system that runs faster than
a greased lightning.



Problem here being that I use and LIKE Kontact including the addressbook
etc. Sure, the 4.7 version has been a struggle but I now have most
things back to how they worked in earlier versions. But if I switch off
Strigi et al suddenly my addressbook is conked. Well not really but the
"auto fill in" function in KMail disappears.


I know that the Nepomuk developer is busy fixing bugs left right and
centre but the fixes do not seem to find their way to our distro at least.


And I am really starting to wish for a "kdepim pre 4.7" ppa.




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Old 12-18-2011, 06:08 AM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Nepomuk

O. Sinclair wrote:
> And I am really starting to wish for a "kdepim pre 4.7" ppa.

Can't you install the package(s) from e.g. 10.04? Usually older versions
run without a problem. Of course you should then hold that package so it
wouldn't get overwritten by the next update [1].


Nils

[1] <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto#Introduction_to_Holding_Packages>

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Old 12-20-2011, 12:07 PM
"O. Sinclair"
 
Default Nepomuk

On 18/12/11 01:39, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:03:20 PM Mark Greenwood wrote:

That's fine, and useful. But the point is that this stuff should not be in a
release of an operating system. It does not work, and deeply affects the
performance of the entire system. It should not be necessary to switch off
core features just to get a useable computer. KDE really messed this one
up, and lessons must be learned.



A few months back I saw a post on a nepomuk developers blog re the fact that:

- external interfaces were poorly or not documented and frequently changed

- return codes/exceptions were undocumented and frequently changed

- errors went largely unlogged and were ignored

- logging in general was almost non-existent


I commented that this was a recipe for disaster - in the large corporate
projects I worked on it was essential for core services to be well documented
and *essential* for them to log every error, especially unexpected ones. It
paid off in spades when you were trying to debug weird shit happening on the
various remote and obscure setups we had to work with.

Sure you have to keep service specifications flexible, especially in
development as new requirements/problem emerge, but you also have to be able
to say enough is enough and tie it down. And always always document and make
it transparent.

My comment was deleted.



I was hoping that with the upgrade from the last days the situation
would have improved but nope. Nepomukindexer again chewing CPU, again
reindexing folder(s) I have not touched since I can not remember.


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Old 12-20-2011, 06:11 PM
Valter Mura
 
Default Nepomuk

Hi


That's why I migrated to TB... For now.

It works a charme with my Imap setup, address book works well and is synchronized with gmail contacts through an extension...

Yes, it is less integrated with kde but, at this point, who cares? I need a working program.

And I'm talking of a PIV 2800 mhz, 1 GB ram, 512 MB of video card... Very ancient...


Ciao



--

Valter

*Open Source is better!*

KDE: www.kde.org

Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org

LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org

Il giorno 20/dic/2011 13:09, "O. Sinclair" <o.sinclair@gmail.com> ha scritto:
On 18/12/11 01:39, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:


On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:03:20 PM Mark Greenwood wrote:


That's fine, and useful. But the point is that this stuff should not be in a

release of an operating system. It does not work, and deeply affects the

performance of the entire system. It should not be necessary to switch off

core features just to get a useable computer. KDE really messed this one

up, and lessons must be learned.






A few months back I saw a post on a nepomuk *developers blog re the fact that:



- external interfaces were poorly or not documented and frequently changed



- return codes/exceptions were undocumented and frequently changed



- errors went largely unlogged and were ignored



- logging in general was almost non-existent





I commented that this was a recipe for disaster - in the large corporate

projects I worked on it was essential for core services to be well documented

and *essential* for them to log every error, especially unexpected ones. It

paid off in spades when you were trying to debug weird shit happening on the

various remote and obscure setups we had to work with.



Sure you have to keep service specifications flexible, especially in

development as new requirements/problem emerge, but you also have to be able

to say *enough is enough and tie it down. And always always document and make

it transparent.



My comment was deleted.






I was hoping that with the upgrade from the last days the situation would have improved but nope. Nepomukindexer again chewing CPU, again reindexing folder(s) I have not touched since I can not remember.



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Old 12-21-2011, 11:05 AM
Alvin
 
Default Nepomuk

On Saturday 17 December 2011 20:46:38 Steve Riley wrote:
> I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE "feels
> slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting with
> building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are
> installed:
>
> * MySQL for Akonadi
> * Sqlite for Quassel
> * Virtuoso for Nepomuk
>
> Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to that as
> well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance will
> suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely
> there has to be a better way.

You forgot *Digikam* and *Amarok*.
I'm running quassel in the client-server setup with postgres as backend, left
Amarok alone and use postgres for Akonadi.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help much. Virtuoso is the real offender here. I
don't understand what it indexes. Search in Kmail doesn't work anyway. It
never returns any results.

I'm in the same boat as O. Sinclair. I /like/ Kontact (and even the Akonadi
idea). The features are perfect, but the bugs are too numerous and performance
is very, very bad.

Here's to hope!

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Old 12-21-2011, 12:42 PM
"O. Sinclair"
 
Default Nepomuk

On 21/12/11 14:05, Alvin wrote:

On Saturday 17 December 2011 20:46:38 Steve Riley wrote:

I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE "feels
slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting with
building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are
installed:

* MySQL for Akonadi
* Sqlite for Quassel
* Virtuoso for Nepomuk

Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to that as
well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance will
suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely
there has to be a better way.


You forgot *Digikam* and *Amarok*.
I'm running quassel in the client-server setup with postgres as backend, left
Amarok alone and use postgres for Akonadi.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help much. Virtuoso is the real offender here. I
don't understand what it indexes. Search in Kmail doesn't work anyway. It
never returns any results.

I'm in the same boat as O. Sinclair. I /like/ Kontact (and even the Akonadi
idea). The features are perfect, but the bugs are too numerous and performance
is very, very bad.

Here's to hope!

Happy to hear I am not the only one, watching Nepomuk again reindexing
my mp3 files - must be 3rd or 4th time in 48 hours. And as I understand
strigi is the "underlying" indexer here - but the chain is so complex it
is more than easy to lose track.


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Old 12-21-2011, 01:42 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default Nepomuk

Alvin <info@alvin.be> wrote:
On Saturday 17 December 2011 20:46:38 Steve Riley wrote:
> I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE "feels
> slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting with
> building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are
> installed:
>
> * MySQL for Akonadi
> * Sqlite for Quassel
> * Virtuoso for Nepomuk
>
> Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to that as
> well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance will
> suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely
> there has to be a better way.

You forgot *Digikam* and *Amarok*.
I'm running quassel in the client-server setup with postgres as backend, left
Amarok alone and use postgres for Akonadi.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help much. Virtuoso is the real offender here. I
don't understand what it indexes. Search in Kmail doesn't work anyway. It
never returns any results.

I'm in the same boat as O. Sinclair. I /like/ Kontact (and even the Akonadi
idea). The features are perfect, but the bugs are too numerous and performance
is very, very bad.

Here's to hope!
Nepomuk isn't the database, akonadi is using an embedded mySQL DB, but can use normal mySQL. (not that this is any less confusing)

I looked at using sqlite for akonadi but it was buggy as hell, and no good way to convert between DB's.



Has anyone upgraded to 4.7.3 or .4? With the exception of spam filters, ask of my many errors and warnings are now gone with the recent nepomuk updates.

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Old 12-21-2011, 02:13 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default Nepomuk

Clay Weber <clay@claydoh.com> wrote:
Alvin <info@alvin.be> wrote:
On Saturday 17 December 2011 20:46:38 Steve Riley wrote:
> I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE "feels
> slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting with
> building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are
> installed:
>
> * MySQL for Akonadi
> * Sqlite for Quassel
> * Virtuoso for Nepomuk
>
> Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to that as
> well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance will
> suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely
> there has to be a better way.

You forgot *Digikam* and *Amarok*.
I'm running quassel in the client-server setup with postgres as backend, left
Amarok alone and use postgres for Akonadi.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help much. Virtuoso is the real offender here. I
don't understand what it indexes. Search in Kmail doesn't work anyway. It
never returns any results.

I'm in the same boat as O. Sinclair. I /like/ Kontact (and even the Akonadi
idea). The features are perfect, but the bugs are too numerous and performance
is very, very bad.

Here's to hope!
Nepomuk isn't the database, akonadi is using an embedded mySQL DB, but can use normal mySQL. (not that this is any less confusing)

I looked at using sqlite for akonadi but it was buggy as hell, and no good way to convert between DB's.



Has anyone upgraded to 4.7.3 or .4? With the exception of spam filters, ask of my many errors and warnings are now gone with the recent nepomuk updates.
Also the re-indexing bug WA fixed as well

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Old 12-21-2011, 02:42 PM
China
 
Default Nepomuk

All;

I don't use kdepim, amarok, kmail or other aplication requered by
nepomuk/akonadi. Can I disable the nepomuk/akonadi? How to do is????

2011/12/21 Clay Weber <clay@claydoh.com>:
> Clay Weber <clay@claydoh.com> wrote:
>>
>> Alvin <info@alvin.be> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Saturday 17 December 2011 20:46:38 Steve Riley wrote:
>>> > I suspect some of bloat, and a contributor to the claims that KDE
>>> > "feels
>>> > slow," has to do with the sheer number of databases. I'm experimenting
>>> > with
>>> > building a KDE system by hand. So far, three separate databases are
>>> > installed:
>>> >
>>> > * MySQL for Akonadi
>>> > * Sqlite for Quassel
>>> > * Virtuoso for Nepomuk
>>> >
>>> > Quassel is hardcoded to depend on Sqlite. Akonadi can be switched to
>>> > that as
>>> > well, but some docs on KDE.org warn against that, claiming performance
>>> > will
>>> > suffer. Nepomuk is similarly wedded to Virtuoso through Soprano. Surely
>>> > there has to be a better way.
>>>
>>> You forgot *Digikam* and *Amarok*.
>>> I'm running quassel in the client-server setup with postgres as backend,
>>> left
>>> Amarok alone and use postgres for Akonadi.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, that doesn't help much. Virtuoso is the real offender
>>> here. I
>>> don't understand what it indexes. Search in Kmail doesn't work anyway. It
>>> never returns any results.
>>>
>>> I'm in the same boat as O. Sinclair. I /like/ Kontact (and even the
>>> Akonadi
>>> idea). The features are perfect, but the bugs are too numerous and
>>> performance
>>> is very, very bad.
>>>
>>> Here's to hope!
>>
>>
>> Nepomuk isn't the database, akonadi is using an embedded mySQL DB, but can
>> use normal mySQL. (not that this is any less confusing)
>> I looked at using sqlite for akonadi but it was buggy as hell, and no good
>> way to convert between DB's.
>>
>> Has anyone upgraded to 4.7.3 or .4? With the exception of spam filters,
>> ask of my many errors and warnings are now gone with the recent nepomuk
>> updates.
>
>
> Also the re-indexing bug WA fixed as well
> --
> Clay Weber
>
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>



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