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Joel Oliver 12-22-2008 12:40 AM

ssh and vnc
 
Have you tried NoMachine's NX? They have a free linux edition. You
need to install the client, node, and server on the machine you want to
control, and just the client on the other. Works awesome and there's no
lag like in VNC. I've tried tightvnc vnc4, X over ssh (painfully
slow), and now NX and NX is defiantly the fastest!

Just and idea.
Joel.
BTW, the FreeNX in the repos is not as good (or as fast/feature full)
but it's true GPL open source software as NoMachine's NX is not... and
you'll have to goto their website to download the 3 .debs in the x86/x64
flavour you need. This link takes you right to the d/l page for linux.

http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1

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Joel Oliver 12-22-2008 12:44 AM

ssh and vnc
 
Joel Oliver wrote:
> Have you tried NoMachine's NX? They have a free linux edition. You
> need to install the client, node, and server on the machine you want to
> control, and just the client on the other. Works awesome and there's no
> lag like in VNC. I've tried tightvnc vnc4, X over ssh (painfully
> slow), and now NX and NX is defiantly the fastest!
>
> Just and idea.
> Joel.
> BTW, the FreeNX in the repos is not as good (or as fast/feature full)
> but it's true GPL open source software as NoMachine's NX is not... and
> you'll have to goto their website to download the 3 .debs in the x86/x64
> flavour you need. This link takes you right to the d/l page for linux.
>
> http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1
>
>
BTW, you need to have SSH set up for NX to work, as it logs in using it.



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andrew heggie 12-22-2008 01:27 PM

ssh and vnc
 
alan c wrote:


>
> (I am not any expert, so if one reads this and can correct or add
> stuff, please do so?)

You're expert enough to move me forward, thanks.
>
> your machine is the ssh client
> login for user 'bill' (his machine) is the ssh server
>
> make sure the target machine (bill's) has ssh server installed and
> that your machine that you will use to connect from has the ssh client
> installed (openssh-server, openssh-client that is)

All done I log in with:

ssh -Y -l bill 192.168.xxx.ab and then his (fairly strong) user password.

For his convenience I have set the machine to autologin for his username.
>
> It is not essential to use keys that you specially generate - that is,
> public and private key pairs, but it is an advantage I think,
> particularly since you have both machines with you at present. I found
> note1 useful here.

I'm not using keys yet, I hope that his account password is strong enough
but I will investigate keys.

> should get a sensible response probably a warning that the remote
> machine is unknown (no keys yet) and it is this or that fingerprint,
> and do you want to connect to it? If you accept, the ID key of the
> remote machine will be added to a file in your machine for reference.
> Note: the key I think may be different when seen across the internet
> (not sure). The real trick in this sort of situation is to be certain
> that the target machine really is the one you expect, and that in
> principle there is no third party interception at this initial stage.
> Inside your local LAN this is trivial.

Once this key has been successfully negotiated (it has in my case) can the
ssh be locked to this machine?

> Again, inside your LAN it is easy to get VNC working. I usually use
> kubuntu 8.04 but in this case I have been using ubuntu 8.04 (easy to
> have both as alternate sessions at login, anyway), so some apps might
> be ubuntu based, although I think they are also available in kubuntu.
>
> Set remote desktop (this is the VNC server) in bill's machine to allow
> others to control it, maybe with a password. Do not set to use
> encryption I do not think it is working yet, anyway you expect to use
> ssh and a tunnel so there is no need for yet more encryption. Do not
> set ask for confirmation - you may not want that level of interaction
> the other end.

OK this is where mine fell over using krdc as the client on mine and Krfb as
the server on his. All seemed well, I sent the invitation from bill's
received the poll on mine. I then Okayed the reply on bill's and typed the
password on mine, at which stage everything hung until I broke the
connection from mine. I'm updating the server software on his.
>
> Then from your own machine:
> vncviewer 192.168.1.101

Again adept doesn't show vncviewer!

I'm installing xvnc4viewer

OK this hangs too so it looks like it's the server on bill that's playing
up.

I've upgraded to krfb kde4 on bill's and get a connection with vncviewer but
the colours are all wrong. I need to find a remote desktop server that
works.

Also Krfb seems to stay resident in the systray. I need a commandline means
of clearing it from the system.
>
> or maybe
> vncviewer 192.168.1.101:0
> I think they both work for me.
>
> and you should connect to bill's machine inside your LAN.
>
> So now you have had ssh working and vnc working both inside your LAN.

Not yet!

I'll be back!

Thanks Alan

Andrew Heggie



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alan c 12-22-2008 03:40 PM

ssh and vnc
 
andrew heggie wrote:
> alan c wrote:
>
>
>>
>> (I am not any expert, so if one reads this and can correct or add
>> stuff, please do so?)
>
> You're expert enough to move me forward, thanks.
>>
>> your machine is the ssh client
>> login for user 'bill' (his machine) is the ssh server
>>
>> make sure the target machine (bill's) has ssh server installed and
>> that your machine that you will use to connect from has the ssh client
>> installed (openssh-server, openssh-client that is)
>
> All done I log in with:
>
> ssh -Y -l bill 192.168.xxx.ab and then his (fairly strong) user password.
>
> For his convenience I have set the machine to autologin for his username.

btw - important: have you considered making his usual account into a
non admin (non sudo) one?
This is my usual approach with non computer literate people I help. I
also edit his menus to reduce them and also lock the panels to stop
the obvious 'lost my panel' problem.
The admin level account can be called and something like bill-admin
but would not be auto login. In fact I use ssh into such account,
which gives me admin rihgts, but I still see th enon admin screen
displayed,. I can use admin stuff at the shell level, such as updates
(not difficult)

>> It is not essential to use keys that you specially generate - that is,
>> public and private key pairs, but it is an advantage I think,
>> particularly since you have both machines with you at present. I found
>> note1 useful here.
>
> I'm not using keys yet, I hope that his account password is strong enough
> but I will investigate keys.

ssh with password only is not recommended now I think. I see comments
to disable the password use.

>> should get a sensible response probably a warning that the remote
>> machine is unknown (no keys yet) and it is this or that fingerprint,
>> and do you want to connect to it? If you accept, the ID key of the
>> remote machine will be added to a file in your machine for reference.
>> Note: the key I think may be different when seen across the internet
>> (not sure). The real trick in this sort of situation is to be certain
>> that the target machine really is the one you expect, and that in
>> principle there is no third party interception at this initial stage.
>> Inside your local LAN this is trivial.
>
> Once this key has been successfully negotiated (it has in my case) can the
> ssh be locked to this machine?

Yes as I understand it

>> Again, inside your LAN it is easy to get VNC working. I usually use
>> kubuntu 8.04 but in this case I have been using ubuntu 8.04 (easy to
>> have both as alternate sessions at login, anyway), so some apps might
>> be ubuntu based, although I think they are also available in kubuntu.
>>
>> Set remote desktop (this is the VNC server) in bill's machine to allow
>> others to control it, maybe with a password. Do not set to use
>> encryption I do not think it is working yet, anyway you expect to use
>> ssh and a tunnel so there is no need for yet more encryption. Do not
>> set ask for confirmation - you may not want that level of interaction
>> the other end.
>
> OK this is where mine fell over using krdc as the client on mine and Krfb as
> the server on his. All seemed well,
> I sent the invitation from bill's

I do not understand this. I would expect you to send an invitation
*from* your machine (not bills) to bills server machine intending to
connect to bills machine?

> received the poll on mine. I then Okayed the reply on bill's and typed the
> password on mine, at which stage everything hung until I broke the
> connection from mine. I'm updating the server software on his.

you might find that the password facility has by default been turned off!

>>
>> Then from your own machine:
>> vncviewer 192.168.1.101
>
> Again adept doesn't show vncviewer!
>
> I'm installing xvnc4viewer
>
> OK this hangs too so it looks like it's the server on bill that's playing
> up.
>
> I've upgraded to krfb kde4 on bill's and get a connection with vncviewer

Great!

>but
> the colours are all wrong.

The colours are very limited here too, probably only 24 colours, but
it is ok to use and I have it as a lower priority. they probably can
be configured, but will take bandwidth.

>I need to find a remote desktop server that
> works.

If you can see (limited) colours then I suggest it is probably working
now.

--
alan cocks
Ubuntu user #10391
Linux user #360648

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andrew heggie 12-22-2008 03:53 PM

ssh and vnc
 
Joel Oliver wrote:

>> Joel.
>> BTW, the FreeNX in the repos is not as good (or as fast/feature full)
>> but it's true GPL open source software as NoMachine's NX is not... and
>> you'll have to goto their website to download the 3 .debs in the x86/x64
>> flavour you need. This link takes you right to the d/l page for linux.
>>
>> http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1
>>
>>
> BTW, you need to have SSH set up for NX to work, as it logs in using it.

That sounds good, I like the idea of something that is forced to go via ssh.

I tried vnc4server without luck. x11vnc works fine with vncviewer as client
but I haven't got it running password protected.

I'll try NX next.

Andrew Heggie



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andrew heggie 12-22-2008 05:57 PM

ssh and vnc
 
alan c wrote:

>>
>> ssh -Y -l bill 192.168.xxx.ab and then his (fairly strong) user password.
>>
>> For his convenience I have set the machine to autologin for his username.
>
> btw - important: have you considered making his usual account into a
> non admin (non sudo) one?

No, I've never done this for Kubuntu as the need to use sudo and a password
seemed good enough.

Using x11 I've tested it over vnc and I don't seem to be able to get root
functions.

> This is my usual approach with non computer literate people I help. I
> also edit his menus to reduce them and also lock the panels to stop
> the obvious 'lost my panel' problem.

Yes that's what I'll do next.

>> I'm not using keys yet, I hope that his account password is strong enough
>> but I will investigate keys.
>
> ssh with password only is not recommended now I think. I see comments
> to disable the password use.

Surely you still need his login password even with keys?

>>
>> Once this key has been successfully negotiated (it has in my case) can
>> the ssh be locked to this machine?
>
> Yes as I understand it

OK this might be a bit like locking a wireless card's MAC address to the
wireless access point, I'll have to investigate.
>

>> OK this is where mine fell over using krdc as the client on mine and Krfb
>> as the server on his. All seemed well,
>> I sent the invitation from bill's
>
> I do not understand this. I would expect you to send an invitation
> from your machine (not bills) to bills server machine intending to
> connect to bills machine?

Not with the Krfb stuff bundled in 8.04.1. The sequence is:

server sends invitation and generates a password.

client accepts invitation

server asks bill whether to allow connection

client requests me for login password

Then it conects

>>
>> I've upgraded to krfb kde4 on bill's and get a connection with vncviewer
>
> Great!
>
>>but
>> the colours are all wrong.
>
> The colours are very limited here too, probably only 24 colours, *but
> it is ok to use and I have it as a lower priority. they probably can
> be configured, but will take bandwidth.
>
>>I need to find a remote desktop server that
>> works.
>
> If you can see (limited) colours then I suggest it is probably working
> now.

Yes but it was generatining coloured blocks all over the screen, like one of
thos widowing tutorials in gwbasic on and old amstrad!

It's borked.

x11server works well but I need a terminal open in both computers and I
think bill's requires a reboot in order to allow another session.

I need a script which can be executed from his desktop.

NX is so slick, it installs from the debs and saves a connection icon on the
client's (my) desktop. I'm not sure how I got the NX server running (a bit
worrying, much like windows :-( ) it just did! However I cannot figure how
to get bill's current display. NX uses different ports and a number of
displays can be remotely connected but not the active desktop so far but it
looks like it would if I could force it to open port 1000.

Andrew Heggie
>


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