On Wednesday 26 November 2008 10:16:13 am Bruce Marshall wrote:
> On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Art Alexion wrote:
> > I don't think you have any problems mixing the package manager gui
> > programs. *You shouldn't mix apt-get and aptitude, but I think the
> > guis all use the same back end.
> >
> > Can someone please confirm this and tell me whether the back end is
> > apti-get or aptitude.
>
> I use all four.... *aptitude, synaptic, apt-get, and adept *without
> problems.
>
> I believe they all resolve down to * dpkg *at their depths....

Yes, and no. Aptitude handles dependencies differently than apt-get, so
removal is cleaner. There are other differences with regard to the handling
of recommended packages and so forth. Google "aptitude vs. apt-get" for
more. Using apt-get and aptitude won't hurt anything, but every time you use
apt-get instead of aptitude, you will not store the extended information for
that package.

What I don't know is whether adept and synaptic store the apt-get info, the
aptitude info, or something altogether different.

Sometimes I use synaptic to search packages because it is a single step to
find and get info as opposed to aptitude search or aptitude show. But I let
aptitude to handle the actual installation. I'd love to know if this is
necessary.
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On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Art Alexion wrote:
> > I use all four.... *aptitude, synaptic, apt-get, and adept *without
> > problems.
> >
> > I believe they all resolve down to * dpkg *at their depths....
>
> Yes, and no. *Aptitude handles dependencies differently than apt-get, so
> removal is cleaner. *There are other differences with regard to the
> handling of recommended packages and so forth.

Read what I said again.. I did not say they were all equal in value/action.

But they can be used interchangeably.

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On Wednesday 26 November 2008 11:13:44 am Bruce Marshall wrote:
> On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Art Alexion wrote:
> > > I use all four.... *aptitude, synaptic, apt-get, and adept *without
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > I believe they all resolve down to * dpkg *at their depths....
> >
> > Yes, and no. *Aptitude handles dependencies differently than apt-get, so
> > removal is cleaner. *There are other differences with regard to the
> > handling of recommended packages and so forth.
>
> Read what I said again.. * *I did not say they were all equal in
> value/action.
>
> But they can be used interchangeably.

And I disagreed. If you want the benefits of aptitude, stop using apt-get.

What I did not know was whether the two GUI managers stored the additional
aptitude info or just the apt-get.

Oh, and in this instance, it is an oversimplification to say that they are all
based on dpkg, because dpkg does not manage installation of dependencies at
all. Try adding a deb with missing dependencies with dpkg and you won't get
asked whether you want to install them the way apt-get, aptitude, and the
GUIs do. You just get a failure.
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On Wednesday 26 November 2008, Art Alexion wrote:
> Oh, and in this instance, it is an oversimplification to say that they are
> all based on dpkg, because dpkg does not manage installation of
> dependencies at all.

I never said it did.... and no it doesn't. But they all use dpkg at their
lowest level.


> Try adding a deb with missing dependencies with dpkg
> and you won't get asked whether you want to install them the way apt-get,
> aptitude, and the GUIs do. *You just get a failure.



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On Wednesday 26 November 2008 07:23:56 am nepal wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 Nov 2008, nepal wrote:
> > Is there any reason not to use synaptic as the package
> > manager instead of aptitude? ( I ask as aptitude is
> > obviously the default for Kubuntu).
> >
> > If I do use synaptic, is it best to just use the one or
> > the other, or doesn't it matter?
> >
> > nepal
>
> I downloaded and installed synaptic and must say am much
> happier using this than adept manager.
>
> I also read the docs and AFAIU all package management
> systems use dpkg ultimately.
>
> I also noticed something else about an error that occurs
> with synaptic to do with networking and static/dynamic IP
> addressing (if that's the correct terminology). This is a
> problem I have encountered with other distros using
> synaptic as well as my first encounter with Kubuntu.
>
> Synaptic will not connect if networking is set for dynamic
> addressing is what I understand and is exactly what I had
> happening when I first tried Kubuntu which IIRC was 7.04.
>
> nepal.

In KDE 3.5.10, I was fairly happy with Adept and the information it provided.
in KDE 4.1, I find that searching for packages in Adept does return the same
number of packages it did in 3.5.10 and it takes more mouse clicks to get to
the core info of the package--i.e. version numbers, etc. Lots of package data
I get immediately in Synaptic I have to dig to find in KDE 4.1 version of
Adept. I hate to say this, but Adept, at least in my realm, has a usability
regression over previous versions.

Larry

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Bruce Marshall wrote:
> I believe they all resolve down to dpkg at their depths....


Yes, dpkg is the lower level tool, and the rest use dpkg. As it says in
the Debian FAQ, "the higher level package management tools such as
aptitude or dselect rely on apt which, itself, relies on dpkg to manage
the packages in the system".

See Debian FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkgtools.en.html

Sundar.




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> What I did not know was whether the two GUI managers stored the additional
> aptitude info or just the apt-get.

Aptitude is a gui manager.


--
Douglas E Knapp

http://sf-journey-creations.wikispot.org/Front_Page

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On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Knapp <magick.crow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I did not know was whether the two GUI managers stored the additional
>> aptitude info or just the apt-get.
>
> Aptitude is a gui manager.

Well perhaps, but that is like saying emacs is a gui editor.


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Everyone:

Some package-management questions:

1. The package called "smart" doesn't seem to work anymore. It seems
to me that it can't keep up with its channel files. I wonder why F14
even has a version of "smart" in its repos, if we already have yum,
yumex, and package managers specific to KDE and Gnome. At least those
managers get the job done.

2. KPackagekit does not allow very good searching within groups of
packages anymore--not in F14, it doesn't. When I was setting up F14 and
used KPackagekit for the first time, I got lots of icons for application
groups. The minute I used the program once, to install some programs,
those icons disappeared and I've never been able to get them back. Am I
missing something? Does yumex still preserve this group-searching
capability?

Temlakos
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Temlakos wrote:

> 2. KPackagekit does not allow very good searching within groups of
> packages anymore--not in F14, it doesn't.

That feature was inadvertantly not enabled properly, and an updated kpk is
coming soon that should fix it.

-- Rex

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