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Old 08-12-2012, 10:39 PM
Steve Riley
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

A number of folks in the forum use this package. It's a Qt application that
allows users to access all the various HP-related features and functions that
the standard printer KCM doesn't know about.

hplip-gui is only 19.8 KiB compressed, so I'd imagine it would fit on the ISO
without problem. Since HP printers tend to be popular, could we add the -gui
package? This would increase the appeal of Kubuntu to newcomers who don't know
that the package exists and probably don't know how to find it.

http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?59734#post306072

...Steve


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Old 08-13-2012, 09:12 AM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Steve Riley <steve@rileyz.net> wrote:
> A number of folks in the forum use this package. It's a Qt application that
> allows users to access all the various HP-related features and functions that
> the standard printer KCM doesn't know about.
>
> hplip-gui is only 19.8 KiB compressed, so I'd imagine it would fit on the ISO
> without problem. Since HP printers tend to be popular, could we add the -gui
> package? This would increase the appeal of Kubuntu to newcomers who don't know
> that the package exists and probably don't know how to find it.
>
> http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?59734#post306072

In my experience "nice to have" is a jolly bad reason for adding
things. As many things are nice to have, yet so few are useful to
have. That said, I fail to see the use. Yes hplip does more specific
HP stuff, but why does a regular user need a specific HP tool? As I
see it the "regular" work flow is.. plug in printer, print. Anything
other than that goes into the category of 'tech-savvy person wants to
do things other folks don't even know are possible'.

Just my 27 rupees.

HS

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Old 08-13-2012, 02:07 PM
Tres Finocchiaro
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

I read the article. *Next time please link the direct post you are talking about, so we're not all reading through pages of*misc rant.

I find this discussion particularly interesting.
Is "hplip" already part of the CD? *Is there any way to have it pop-up when printing? *I would agree with the OP and say the suggestion to include "hplip-gui"*is*completely*valid if there's no other way to get the dialog to pop up. I don't like the idea of a dedicated icon in the K-Menu just for one manufacturer of printer though. *This could get messy fast.

My organization just replaced about 90 printers with 2 consolidated HP printer models and the HP Universal Print Drivers (Windows workstations).
In Harald's defense, custom printing features are usually obtained with custom software in the Windows world, so apt-get (or Software Center, Muon, etc) should be anyone's first place to look.
P.S. The thread "What does Kubuntu really need to take over the desktop?' started off with some very inaccurate statistics, so I'm doing all I can not to argue with those rather than the topic at hand.

-Tres
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:29 PM
Jonathan Scruggs
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

Just to add my two cents... this is a live disk we're talking about and you are correct in saying that it could get messy fast adding in specific manufacturer software. I just so happen to have a Samsung Multifunction Printer, should we add those universal drivers as well? If you use a live disk so much that you need these specific drivers, then wouldn't the easier option be to download Linux Live USB Creator and turn on the persists feature of say 4 gig and make a bootable USB and add whatever programs you need?


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Old 08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
Steve Riley
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

Combining answers into one reply...


On 2012-08-13 11:12:20 Harald Sitter wrote:
>
> In my experience "nice to have" is a jolly bad reason for adding
> things. As many things are nice to have, yet so few are useful to
> have. That said, I fail to see the use. Yes hplip does more specific
> HP stuff, but why does a regular user need a specific HP tool? As I
> see it the "regular" work flow is.. plug in printer, print. Anything
> other than that goes into the category of 'tech-savvy person wants to
> do things other folks don't even know are possible'.

When it comes to printers (and their evil all-in-one spawn), even ordinary
users expect to be able to take advantage of all the functionality they paid
for. In Windows-land, the purchaser of one of the all-in-one gadgets will
encounter the following experience:

1. Plug the thing in
2. One of either:
a. Windows Update downloads the drivers and the full-feature control panel
b. The user installs said driver/CP from a CD included with the gadget

My father would fall into the non-tech savvy category, but successfully got
his all-in-one working completely in Windows without having to consult with me
or any forum. He would not have had the same success in Kubuntu, because he
would not know that he needs to go find this thing called hplip-gui.


On 2012-08-13 10:07:43 Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
>
> I read the article. Next time please link the direct post you are talking
> about<http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?59734-What-does-Kubuntu-re
> ally-need-to-take-over-the-desktop&p=306072&viewfull=1#post306072>, so we're
> not all reading through pages of misc rant.

Interesting. I didn't realize that the shortened URL I provided would take you
to the beginning of the thread if you don't have a logged-in cookie from the
forum. I tested it on another browser that doesn't have the cookie and,
indeed, only the long URL gets you directly to the post.

> I find this discussion particularly interesting.
>
> Is "hplip" already part of the CD? Is there any way to have it pop-up when
> printing? I would agree with the OP and say the suggestion to include "
> hplip-gui" is completely valid if there's no other way to get the dialog to
> pop up. I don't like the idea of a dedicated icon in the K-Menu just for
> one manufacturer of printer though. This could get messy fast.

Yes, hplip (no gui) is already included in the ISO.

> In Harald's defense, custom printing features are usually obtained
> with custom software in the Windows world, so apt-get (or Software
> Center, Muon, etc) should be anyone's first place to look.

I should have probably thought more about a fully-formed post rather than my
quick question. We already have Jockey that helps people identify, download,
and install manufacturer-specific drivers for wireless adapters, and drivers
and control panels for graphics cards. Could we not extend this functionality
-- not necessarily with Jockey -- to printers as well? Tarting up the ISO with
every printer GUI is, on closer thought, not such a good idea. But in the
theme of making Kubuntu more accessible to more people, and providing such
people a pleasant experience, making it easier to discover printer/scanner/fax
GUIs sounds reasonable, no?

> P.S. The thread "What does Kubuntu really need to take over the desktop?'
> started off with some very inaccurate statistics, so I'm doing all I can
> not to argue with those rather than the topic at hand.

If you don't mind, I'd like to understand this point a bit more. Which parts
would you quibble with? Which statistics would you want to correct? Feel free
to reply directly to me if you'd prefer. I'm happy to carry your thoughts on
to the folks in the forum.

...Steve


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Old 08-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On Monday, August 13, 2012 10:04:16 AM Steve Riley wrote:
> Combining answers into one reply...
>
> On 2012-08-13 11:12:20 Harald Sitter wrote:
> > In my experience "nice to have" is a jolly bad reason for adding
> > things. As many things are nice to have, yet so few are useful to
> > have. That said, I fail to see the use. Yes hplip does more specific
> > HP stuff, but why does a regular user need a specific HP tool? As I
> > see it the "regular" work flow is.. plug in printer, print. Anything
> > other than that goes into the category of 'tech-savvy person wants to
> > do things other folks don't even know are possible'.
>
> When it comes to printers (and their evil all-in-one spawn), even ordinary
> users expect to be able to take advantage of all the functionality they paid
> for. In Windows-land, the purchaser of one of the all-in-one gadgets will
> encounter the following experience:
>
> 1. Plug the thing in
> 2. One of either:
> a. Windows Update downloads the drivers and the full-feature control panel
> b. The user installs said driver/CP from a CD included with the gadget

Fortunately it Kubuntu it's generally even easier. I have two of the so
called evil all-in-one devices from HP on my local network. If I click
printer configuration in system setting and then add printer, from there, all I
have to do is click to accept the recommendation given by the system (this is
the KDE printer configuration manager, not the HP GUI) and they are auto
detected on the network, their printer type identified and an appropriate
driver selected. I've tried to get these exact printers working on Windows
and OS X and it is FAR easier on Kubuntu with the non-manufacturer specific
tools we already provide.

> My father would fall into the non-tech savvy category, but successfully got
> his all-in-one working completely in Windows without having to consult with
> me or any forum. He would not have had the same success in Kubuntu, because
> he would not know that he needs to go find this thing called hplip-gui.

But he doesn't need it. All he needs to find is System Settings -> Printer
Configuration.

> On 2012-08-13 10:07:43 Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> > I read the article. Next time please link the direct post you are talking
> > about<http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?59734-What-does-Kubuntu-
> > re ally-need-to-take-over-the-desktop&p=306072&viewfull=1#post306072>, so
> > we're not all reading through pages of misc rant.
>
> Interesting. I didn't realize that the shortened URL I provided would take
> you to the beginning of the thread if you don't have a logged-in cookie
> from the forum. I tested it on another browser that doesn't have the cookie
> and, indeed, only the long URL gets you directly to the post.
>
> > I find this discussion particularly interesting.
> >
> > Is "hplip" already part of the CD? Is there any way to have it pop-up
> > when
> > printing? I would agree with the OP and say the suggestion to include "
> > hplip-gui" is completely valid if there's no other way to get the dialog
> > to
> > pop up. I don't like the idea of a dedicated icon in the K-Menu just for
> > one manufacturer of printer though. This could get messy fast.
>
> Yes, hplip (no gui) is already included in the ISO.
>
> > In Harald's defense, custom printing features are usually obtained
> > with custom software in the Windows world, so apt-get (or Software
> > Center, Muon, etc) should be anyone's first place to look.
>
> I should have probably thought more about a fully-formed post rather than my
> quick question. We already have Jockey that helps people identify,
> download, and install manufacturer-specific drivers for wireless adapters,
> and drivers and control panels for graphics cards. Could we not extend this
> functionality -- not necessarily with Jockey -- to printers as well?
> Tarting up the ISO with every printer GUI is, on closer thought, not such a
> good idea. But in the theme of making Kubuntu more accessible to more
> people, and providing such people a pleasant experience, making it easier
> to discover printer/scanner/fax GUIs sounds reasonable, no?

I don't recall exactly which tool in the toolset does the actual download, but
I think it's something like CUPS identifying a missing driver talks to Jockey,
which fetches the PPD. I don't have any printers that need this
functionality, but I understand it's already there.

The situation is similar with scanning on the all-in-ones. If I fire up
skanlite it will auto detect the scanners on the network and the step me
through the process of scanning, without the HP GUI.

The HP GUI does have some additional management features if people are
interested in them, but in terms of standard functions for printers/scanners I
think the tools we already ship fill the bill.

Scott K

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Old 08-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Steve Riley
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On 2012-08-13 17:33:04 Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
> Fortunately it Kubuntu it's generally even easier. I have two of the so
> called evil all-in-one devices from HP on my local network. If I click
> printer configuration in system setting and then add printer, from there,
> all I have to do is click to accept the recommendation given by the system
> (this is the KDE printer configuration manager, not the HP GUI) and they
> are auto detected on the network, their printer type identified and an
> appropriate driver selected. I've tried to get these exact printers
> working on Windows and OS X and it is FAR easier on Kubuntu with the
> non-manufacturer specific tools we already provide.
>
> But he doesn't need it. All he needs to find is System Settings -> Printer
> Configuration.
>
> I don't recall exactly which tool in the toolset does the actual download,
> but I think it's something like CUPS identifying a missing driver talks to
> Jockey, which fetches the PPD. I don't have any printers that need this
> functionality, but I understand it's already there.
>
> The situation is similar with scanning on the all-in-ones. If I fire up
> skanlite it will auto detect the scanners on the network and the step me
> through the process of scanning, without the HP GUI.
>
> The HP GUI does have some additional management features if people are
> interested in them, but in terms of standard functions for printers/scanners
> I think the tools we already ship fill the bill.

Ah...well, as I haven't had the need to print or scan since many moons ago,
I've never experimented with any of these tools. I will check in with the
forum members and have them report their experiences with the printer
configuration KCM and Skanlite.

...Steve


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Old 08-13-2012, 10:07 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On Monday, August 13, 2012 02:51:57 PM Steve Riley wrote:
> On 2012-08-13 17:33:04 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > Fortunately it Kubuntu it's generally even easier. I have two of the so
> > called evil all-in-one devices from HP on my local network. If I click
> > printer configuration in system setting and then add printer, from there,
> > all I have to do is click to accept the recommendation given by the system
> > (this is the KDE printer configuration manager, not the HP GUI) and they
> > are auto detected on the network, their printer type identified and an
> > appropriate driver selected. I've tried to get these exact printers
> > working on Windows and OS X and it is FAR easier on Kubuntu with the
> > non-manufacturer specific tools we already provide.
> >
> > But he doesn't need it. All he needs to find is System Settings ->
> > Printer
> > Configuration.
> >
> > I don't recall exactly which tool in the toolset does the actual download,
> > but I think it's something like CUPS identifying a missing driver talks to
> > Jockey, which fetches the PPD. I don't have any printers that need this
> > functionality, but I understand it's already there.
> >
> > The situation is similar with scanning on the all-in-ones. If I fire up
> > skanlite it will auto detect the scanners on the network and the step me
> > through the process of scanning, without the HP GUI.
> >
> > The HP GUI does have some additional management features if people are
> > interested in them, but in terms of standard functions for
> > printers/scanners I think the tools we already ship fill the bill.
>
> Ah...well, as I haven't had the need to print or scan since many moons ago,
> I've never experimented with any of these tools. I will check in with the
> forum members and have them report their experiences with the printer
> configuration KCM and Skanlite.

You should also ask them to try out the new printer configuration applet that
JR mentioned in a separate mail.

Scott K

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Old 08-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On Monday, August 13, 2012 10:07:43 AM Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

> P.S. The thread "What does Kubuntu really need to take over the desktop?'
started off with some very inaccurate statistics, so I'm doing all I can not to
argue with those rather than the topic at hand.
>
>
> -Tres
>

Do feel free to add your thoughts and correct the inaccuracies in that thread!
It would be much welcomed!

Clay

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Old 08-13-2012, 11:24 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default Add hplip-gui to Kubunto ISO?

On Monday, August 13, 2012 02:51:57 PM Steve Riley wrote:
> On 2012-08-13 17:33:04 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > Fortunately it Kubuntu it's generally even easier. I have two of the so
> > called evil all-in-one devices from HP on my local network. If I click
> > printer configuration in system setting and then add printer, from there,
> > all I have to do is click to accept the recommendation given by the system
> > (this is the KDE printer configuration manager, not the HP GUI) and they
> > are auto detected on the network, their printer type identified and an
> > appropriate driver selected. I've tried to get these exact printers
> > working on Windows and OS X and it is FAR easier on Kubuntu with the
> > non-manufacturer specific tools we already provide.
> >
> > But he doesn't need it. All he needs to find is System Settings ->
> > Printer
> > Configuration.
> >
> > I don't recall exactly which tool in the toolset does the actual download,
> > but I think it's something like CUPS identifying a missing driver talks to
> > Jockey, which fetches the PPD. I don't have any printers that need this
> > functionality, but I understand it's already there.
> >
> > The situation is similar with scanning on the all-in-ones. If I fire up
> > skanlite it will auto detect the scanners on the network and the step me
> > through the process of scanning, without the HP GUI.
> >
> > The HP GUI does have some additional management features if people are
> > interested in them, but in terms of standard functions for
> > printers/scanners I think the tools we already ship fill the bill.
>
> Ah...well, as I haven't had the need to print or scan since many moons ago,
> I've never experimented with any of these tools. I will check in with the
> forum members and have them report their experiences with the printer
> configuration KCM and Skanlite.
>
> ...Steve

Same here on printing, mostly, until I bought a second hand wireless Officejet


I have to concur that for most use cases, the extra tools are just that:
extra.

A side note on the HP toolbox software. If you use it to access your wireless
printer's web page, it will open in Firefox by default. If you do not have
that installed, it will default to Konqueror. If you don't have *that*, well
it doesn't open with anything. Not useful in a number of cases.

What I think is an interesting idea is to have a notification about installing
a manufacturer's printing tools somewhere in the printer config applet itself.
No popup spam, just a text when you open it that shows your printer info, and
a suggestion that you can get such tools by installing <packagename>.
Something similar for manually installing a printer - especially a wireless
one, where you have to connect via USB first to set it up and may need that
software.

Clay

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