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Old 08-02-2012, 03:14 AM
AWASHIRO Ikuya
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

Hi Scott,

I added several changes to my PPA.
https://launchpad.net/~ikuya-fruitsbasket/+archive/kimpanel
In my opinion, plasma-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus should have its own
im-switch script for (hopefully near) the future.
/etc/xdg/autostart/kimpanel-ibus-panel.desktop is not good idea.

And, kubuntu-desktop doesn't depend ibus (but ibus-qt4 do).
It is time to add dependency.

$ apt-cache show ibus
Package: ibus
Priority: optional
--snip--
Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb, xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntustudio-desktop

Thanks,
--
AWASHIRO Ikuya
ikuya@fruitsbasket.info / ikuya@oooug.jp
GPG fingerprint:
1A19 AD66 C53F 2250 3537 1A9D 3A53 2C1D 20AB CC8A

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Old 08-02-2012, 01:43 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:14:09 PM AWASHIRO Ikuya wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> I added several changes to my PPA.
> https://launchpad.net/~ikuya-fruitsbasket/+archive/kimpanel
> In my opinion, plasma-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus should have its own
> im-switch script for (hopefully near) the future.
> /etc/xdg/autostart/kimpanel-ibus-panel.desktop is not good idea.
>
> And, kubuntu-desktop doesn't depend ibus (but ibus-qt4 do).
> It is time to add dependency.
>
> $ apt-cache show ibus
> Package: ibus
> Priority: optional
> --snip--
> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb,
> xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntustudio-desktop

We need to do two things:

For precise, we need to do the minimum change to get things working. I think
your ~ppa1 package represents that and I've included those changes in the KDE
SC 4.8.5 packaging I'm working on.

For quantal, there's no need to be minimal. We can concentrate on making it
work well, which it looks like your ~ppa2 pacakges are a good step in the
right direction.

Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors we do try to miminize our GTK dependencies.
Since ibus is only needed for some languages, I think it would be more
appropriate for Kubuntu to only install it for people selecting languages that
need it, but I didn't do any looking into how to do that.

Thanks for working on this.

Scott K

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Old 08-02-2012, 02:27 PM
AWASHIRO Ikuya
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:43:49 -0400
Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:

> We need to do two things:
>
> For precise, we need to do the minimum change to get things working. I think
> your ~ppa1 package represents that and I've included those changes in the KDE
> SC 4.8.5 packaging I'm working on.
>
> For quantal, there's no need to be minimal. We can concentrate on making it
> work well, which it looks like your ~ppa2 pacakges are a good step in the
> right direction.
I see.

> Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors we do try to miminize our GTK dependencies.
> Since ibus is only needed for some languages, I think it would be more
> appropriate for Kubuntu to only install it for people selecting languages that
> need it, but I didn't do any looking into how to do that.
According to below file, it is hard to do.
/usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends

Without dependency for IBus, we should do after install:
1. sudo apt-get install ibus
2. kde-language-selector
It is not good user experience.

> Thanks for working on this.
My pleasure.

Thanks,
--
AWASHIRO Ikuya
ikuya@fruitsbasket.info / ikuya@oooug.jp
GPG fingerprint:
1A19 AD66 C53F 2250 3537 1A9D 3A53 2C1D 20AB CC8A

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Old 08-02-2012, 02:51 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:27:18 PM AWASHIRO Ikuya wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:43:49 -0400
>
> Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> > We need to do two things:
> >
> > For precise, we need to do the minimum change to get things working. I
> > think your ~ppa1 package represents that and I've included those changes
> > in the KDE SC 4.8.5 packaging I'm working on.
> >
> > For quantal, there's no need to be minimal. We can concentrate on making
> > it work well, which it looks like your ~ppa2 pacakges are a good step in
> > the right direction.
>
> I see.
>
> > Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors we do try to miminize our GTK
> > dependencies.
> > Since ibus is only needed for some languages, I think it would be more
> > appropriate for Kubuntu to only install it for people selecting languages
> > that need it, but I didn't do any looking into how to do that.
>
> According to below file, it is hard to do.
> /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends
>
> Without dependency for IBus, we should do after install:
> 1. sudo apt-get install ibus
> 2. kde-language-selector
> It is not good user experience.

It looks to me like we can extend pkg_depends to install plasma-widget-
kimpanel-backend-ibus and ibus if appropriate language codes are selected.
This means (I think - I didn't try it yet) it would just be a matter of
running the language selector, which I think is reasonable. Something like
this would, I think, work:

# Kubuntu IM support
im:ja:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:ko:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:th:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:vi:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:zh-hans:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:zh-hans:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:zh-hant:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:zh-hant:kubuntu-desktop:ibus
im:te:kubuntu-desktop:ibus

im:ja:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:ko:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:th:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:vi:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:zh-hans:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:zh-hans:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:zh-hant:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:zh-hant:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel
im:te:kubuntu-desktop:kimpanel-ibus-panel

We'll have to try it and see though.

Scott K

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Old 08-02-2012, 04:13 PM
Ma Xiaojun
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors we do try to miminize our GTK dependencies.
> Since ibus is only needed for some languages, I think it would be more
> appropriate for Kubuntu to only install it for people selecting languages that
> need it, but I didn't do any looking into how to do that.
I personally hate such practice.
I advocate the practice of providing all languages' support by default.
This is the behavior of OS X that I really like.

I don't need to wait for installation of language packs before
switching to new UI language.
From my own experience, language-selector is not a robust tools, it
occasionally leave half-baked UI (half English and half local
language) requiring manual fix.

If IBus or other IMF is provided as language support only for some
languages, then we're requiring the users using English locale to know
about the fancy package names like fcitx*, ibus*, scim*...
Manually enable such IMFs may also be a challenge.

Sample use cases: A Westerner may learn one of CJK languages with the
help of one CJK input method. CJK native speakers may prefer English
locale for various reasons.

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Old 08-02-2012, 04:23 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Friday, August 03, 2012 12:13:10 AM Ma Xiaojun wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
wrote:
> > Unlike the other Ubuntu flavors we do try to miminize our GTK
> > dependencies.
> > Since ibus is only needed for some languages, I think it would be more
> > appropriate for Kubuntu to only install it for people selecting languages
> > that need it, but I didn't do any looking into how to do that.
>
> I personally hate such practice.
> I advocate the practice of providing all languages' support by default.
> This is the behavior of OS X that I really like.
>
> I don't need to wait for installation of language packs before
> switching to new UI language.
> From my own experience, language-selector is not a robust tools, it
> occasionally leave half-baked UI (half English and half local
> language) requiring manual fix.
>
> If IBus or other IMF is provided as language support only for some
> languages, then we're requiring the users using English locale to know
> about the fancy package names like fcitx*, ibus*, scim*...
> Manually enable such IMFs may also be a challenge.
>
> Sample use cases: A Westerner may learn one of CJK languages with the
> help of one CJK input method. CJK native speakers may prefer English
> locale for various reasons.

In the past, we've been very constrained by CD size. As I understand it,
we're going to a larger format for Quantal, so we may be able to install more
by default. Also, on IRC today we were discussing the possibility of using
fcitx instead of ibus in quantal. That would reduce the dependency chain
associated with including IM by default.

Scott K

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Old 08-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Ma Xiaojun
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> In the past, we've been very constrained by CD size. As I understand it,
> we're going to a larger format for Quantal, so we may be able to install more
> by default. Also, on IRC today we were discussing the possibility of using
> fcitx instead of ibus in quantal. That would reduce the dependency chain
> associated with including IM by default.

I don't have strong opinion on whether you should use IBus or Fcitx.
What I really care is whether the end result presented to uninformed
users is good enough.

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Old 08-03-2012, 02:26 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Friday, August 03, 2012 10:12:58 PM Ma Xiaojun wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
wrote:
> > In the past, we've been very constrained by CD size. As I understand it,
> > we're going to a larger format for Quantal, so we may be able to install
> > more by default. Also, on IRC today we were discussing the possibility
> > of using fcitx instead of ibus in quantal. That would reduce the
> > dependency chain associated with including IM by default.
>
> I don't have strong opinion on whether you should use IBus or Fcitx.
> What I really care is whether the end result presented to uninformed
> users is good enough.

I really appreciate the help we're getting on this. We (Kubuntu developers)
do want Kubuntu to work well for everyone, but since approximately none of us
use IM for out native languages the help we're getting from those of you that
do is essential to improving the experience.

Thanks,

Scott K

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Old 08-07-2012, 05:26 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Thursday, August 02, 2012 09:43:49 AM Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:14:09 PM AWASHIRO Ikuya wrote:
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> >
> >
> > I added several changes to my PPA.
> > https://launchpad.net/~ikuya-fruitsbasket/+archive/kimpanel
> > In my opinion, plasma-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus should have its own
> > im-switch script for (hopefully near) the future.
> > /etc/xdg/autostart/kimpanel-ibus-panel.desktop is not good idea.
> >
> >
> >
> > And, kubuntu-desktop doesn't depend ibus (but ibus-qt4 do).
> > It is time to add dependency.
> >
> >
> >
> > $ apt-cache show ibus
> > Package: ibus
> > Priority: optional
> > --snip--
> > Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb,
> > xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntustudio-desktop
...
> For precise, we need to do the minimum change to get things working. I
> think your ~ppa1 package represents that and I've included those changes
> in the KDE SC 4.8.5 packaging I'm working on.

This is done and in the Kubuntu updates PPA (ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa). I would
appreciate it if interested people would test this and see if it works.

Scott K

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Old 08-07-2012, 01:04 PM
AWASHIRO Ikuya
 
Default Making IBus usable in Kubuntu

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 01:26:18 -0400
Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:

> This is done and in the Kubuntu updates PPA (ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa). I would
> appreciate it if interested people would test this and see if it works.
Hmm, it doesn't work.

ikuya@KubuntuPrecise1:~$ /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kimpanel-ibus-panel
bash: /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kimpanel-ibus-panel: No such file or directory
ikuya@KubuntuPrecise1:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kimpanel-ibus-panel
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 22168 Aug 7 06:31 /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kimpanel-ibus-panel
ikuya@KubuntuPrecise1:~$ ldd /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kimpanel-ibus-panel
not a dynamic executable

What happened?

--
AWASHIRO Ikuya
ikuya@fruitsbasket.info / ikuya@oooug.jp
GPG fingerprint:
1A19 AD66 C53F 2250 3537 1A9D 3A53 2C1D 20AB CC8A

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