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Old 06-30-2012, 03:43 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

Hello all,

As some of you may know, Kubuntu ships a System Settings module that
allows users to control GTK+ 2 themes from within KDE. This System
Settings module was salvaged from the old gtk-qt-engine codebase and
was modified by myself to become a generic GTK theme/font
configuration model. It's feature set is a bit spartan. Apart from
being able to set the theme and font for GTK2 applications, it doesn't
do anything else. It's also a bit unmaintained, as I have found myself
busy with other obligations both in and out of the FOSS community.
It's been left to bitrot, and still doesn't support controlling GTK+ 3
themes, etc.

Fortunately, Blue Systems has sponsored the development of a new
configuration module that has the benefits of A) Being maintained, and
B) supporting GTK3. It also allows you to set toolbar style (Icons
only, text only, text beside icons, text below icons, etc) as well as
whether or not icons should be displayed in GTK buttons and menus. It
also has a preview feature, but this preview feature raises a few
questions about its inclusion within Kubuntu since it brings GTK
packages on to the CD:

[11:21:07] <JontheEchidna> So that new GTK style KCM actually uses GTK
widgets for a preview feature
[11:21:27] <JontheEchidna> we could either:
[11:21:38] <JontheEchidna> -Use some of the new CD space, give in and
just have GTK On the CD
[11:21:52] <JontheEchidna> -Disable the preview feature via a patch
[11:22:03] <JontheEchidna> -Keep the old KCM and not support GTK3
[11:22:35] <JontheEchidna> but I'm not gonna mess with the seeds until
that's figured out
[11:23:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mess with seeds?
[11:23:11] <JontheEchidna> s/kde-config-gtk/kde-config-gtk-style/
[11:23:11] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: You did something wrong... Try
s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[11:23:22] <Riddell> oh I missread
[11:24:00] <Riddell> of all the reasons to put gtk on the cd it's not a bad one
[11:24:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[11:25:06] <JontheEchidna> it'd also mean we could support album art
transfers in amarok by using the gtk libgpod
[11:25:47] <JontheEchidna> and we could drop the difference with
debian in our oxygen gtk style packages where we don't link to gtk
[11:27:27] <Riddell> dunno I'd have to ponder more


Speaking as the maintainer of the current GTK KCM (which is not to say
that it is maintained...), I'd definitely like to see the old one go.
It's unmaintained and I'd really rather not maintain it. But since the
inclusion of the new KCM does bring up the perennial question of "Do
we want GTK on the CD", it would be best to consult the wider Kubuntu
development community for opinions before taking action. If after
discussion there is not a consensus, we can always put the issue in
front of the Kubuntu Council for a vote.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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Old 07-01-2012, 11:27 AM
Aleix Pol
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Jonathan Thomas <echidnaman@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello all,



As some of you may know, Kubuntu ships a System Settings module that

allows users to control GTK+ 2 themes from within KDE. This System

Settings module was salvaged from the old gtk-qt-engine codebase and

was modified by myself to become a generic GTK theme/font

configuration model. It's feature set is a bit spartan. Apart from

being able to set the theme and font for GTK2 applications, it doesn't

do anything else. It's also a bit unmaintained, as I have found myself

busy with other obligations both in and out of the FOSS community.

It's been left to bitrot, and still doesn't support controlling GTK+ 3

themes, etc.



Fortunately, Blue Systems has sponsored the development of a new

configuration module that has the benefits of A) Being maintained, and

B) supporting GTK3. It also allows you to set toolbar style (Icons

only, text only, text beside icons, text below icons, etc) as well as

whether or not icons should be displayed in GTK buttons and menus. It

also has a preview feature, but this preview feature raises a few

questions about its inclusion within Kubuntu since it brings GTK

packages on to the CD:



[11:21:07] <JontheEchidna> So that new GTK style KCM actually uses GTK

widgets for a preview feature

[11:21:27] <JontheEchidna> we could either:

[11:21:38] <JontheEchidna> -Use some of the new CD space, give in and

just have GTK On the CD

[11:21:52] <JontheEchidna> -Disable the preview feature via a patch

[11:22:03] <JontheEchidna> -Keep the old KCM and not support GTK3

[11:22:35] <JontheEchidna> but I'm not gonna mess with the seeds until

that's figured out

[11:23:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mess with seeds?

[11:23:11] <JontheEchidna> s/kde-config-gtk/kde-config-gtk-style/

[11:23:11] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: You did something wrong... Try

s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"

[11:23:22] <Riddell> oh I missread

[11:24:00] <Riddell> of all the reasons to put gtk on the cd it's not a bad one

[11:24:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah

[11:25:06] <JontheEchidna> it'd also mean we could support album art

transfers in amarok by using the gtk libgpod

[11:25:47] <JontheEchidna> and we could drop the difference with

debian in our oxygen gtk style packages where we don't link to gtk

[11:27:27] <Riddell> dunno I'd have to ponder more





Speaking as the maintainer of the current GTK KCM (which is not to say

that it is maintained...), I'd definitely like to see the old one go.

It's unmaintained and I'd really rather not maintain it. But since the

inclusion of the new KCM does bring up the perennial question of "Do

we want GTK on the CD", it would be best to consult the wider Kubuntu

development community for opinions before taking action. If after

discussion there is not a consensus, we can always put the issue in

front of the Kubuntu Council for a vote.



Cheers,

Jonathan



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Hi Jonathan,First of all, I'm glad you're interested in working in this new KCM we made. I'm convinced that the new one can add some value.


I have not much to add, about the GTK dependency, it can be compiled without the gtk_* executables. In this case you wouldn't get examples but it would still work. If it doesn't ping me and we can probably manage it.*On the other hand, it shows that something wrong is going on. Who'd want to configure GTK without GTK installed?


Aleix
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org> wrote:
> Hi Jonathan,
> First of all, I'm glad you're interested in working in this new KCM we made.
> I'm convinced that the new one can add some value.
>
> I have not much to add, about the GTK dependency, it can be compiled without
> the gtk_* executables. In this case you wouldn't get examples but it would
> still work. If it doesn't ping me and we can probably manage it. On the
> other hand, it shows that something wrong is going on. Who'd want to
> configure GTK without GTK installed?

that last point makes me wonder... how about making muon/qapt install
the KCM only once libgtk gets installed? it does indeed not make sense
to configure GTK without having GTK installed so why should we have it
on the CD if there is no GTK on the CD (altho IMHO configuring GTK
altogether does not make sense as it should use Qt's style, but oh
well).

HS

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Old 07-01-2012, 12:21 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org> wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,

> First of all, I'm glad you're interested in working in this new KCM we made.

> I'm convinced that the new one can add some value.

>

> I have not much to add, about the GTK dependency, it can be compiled without

> the gtk_* executables. In this case you wouldn't get examples but it would

> still work. If it doesn't ping me and we can probably manage it. On the

> other hand, it shows that something wrong is going on. Who'd want to

> configure GTK without GTK installed?



that last point makes me wonder... how about making muon/qapt install

the KCM only once libgtk gets installed? it does indeed not make sense

to configure GTK without having GTK installed so why should we have it

on the CD if there is no GTK on the CD (altho IMHO configuring GTK

altogether does not make sense as it should use Qt's style, but oh

well).



HS



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I guess that if GTK is properly configured in Kubuntu by default, the KCM is not needed. If somebody needs to tweak what the applications look like, he can install that. Maybe.


On the other hand, I wouldn't hack such rules in muon, if anywhere this should happen in the apt level. If we add weird behaviors in muon, then we risk the user thinking that magic is happening and being scared of using it comfortably with the solid deb/apt base.


Aleix
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:33 PM
Philip Muskovac
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Saturday 30 June 2012 11:43:59 Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> As some of you may know, Kubuntu ships a System Settings module that
> allows users to control GTK+ 2 themes from within KDE. This System
> Settings module was salvaged from the old gtk-qt-engine codebase and
> was modified by myself to become a generic GTK theme/font
> configuration model. It's feature set is a bit spartan. Apart from
> being able to set the theme and font for GTK2 applications, it doesn't
> do anything else. It's also a bit unmaintained, as I have found myself
> busy with other obligations both in and out of the FOSS community.
> It's been left to bitrot, and still doesn't support controlling GTK+ 3
> themes, etc.
>
> Fortunately, Blue Systems has sponsored the development of a new
> configuration module that has the benefits of A) Being maintained, and
> B) supporting GTK3. It also allows you to set toolbar style (Icons
> only, text only, text beside icons, text below icons, etc) as well as
> whether or not icons should be displayed in GTK buttons and menus. It
> also has a preview feature, but this preview feature raises a few
> questions about its inclusion within Kubuntu since it brings GTK
> packages on to the CD:
>
> [11:21:07] <JontheEchidna> So that new GTK style KCM actually uses GTK
> widgets for a preview feature
> [11:21:27] <JontheEchidna> we could either:
> [11:21:38] <JontheEchidna> -Use some of the new CD space, give in and
> just have GTK On the CD
> [11:21:52] <JontheEchidna> -Disable the preview feature via a patch
> [11:22:03] <JontheEchidna> -Keep the old KCM and not support GTK3
> [11:22:35] <JontheEchidna> but I'm not gonna mess with the seeds until
> that's figured out
> [11:23:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mess with seeds?
> [11:23:11] <JontheEchidna> s/kde-config-gtk/kde-config-gtk-style/
> [11:23:11] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: You did something wrong... Try
> s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
> [11:23:22] <Riddell> oh I missread
> [11:24:00] <Riddell> of all the reasons to put gtk on the cd it's not a bad
> one [11:24:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah
> [11:25:06] <JontheEchidna> it'd also mean we could support album art
> transfers in amarok by using the gtk libgpod
> [11:25:47] <JontheEchidna> and we could drop the difference with
> debian in our oxygen gtk style packages where we don't link to gtk
> [11:27:27] <Riddell> dunno I'd have to ponder more
>
>
> Speaking as the maintainer of the current GTK KCM (which is not to say
> that it is maintained...), I'd definitely like to see the old one go.
> It's unmaintained and I'd really rather not maintain it. But since the
> inclusion of the new KCM does bring up the perennial question of "Do
> we want GTK on the CD", it would be best to consult the wider Kubuntu
> development community for opinions before taking action. If after
> discussion there is not a consensus, we can always put the issue in
> front of the Kubuntu Council for a vote.

Hi,

what me and Felix were worried about when we looked at gtk3 support last cycle
was how to make sure we don't mess with the settings of other desktop
environments. The new KCM uses $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/gtk-3.0/settings.ini which is
fine from a gtk POV, but if another desktop environment doesn't have something
that overrides this (xsettings daemon, ...) it will be forced to use oxygen-
gtk3 as well.

That was IIRC the primary reason why we went with the old kcm and just made it
somewhat support gtk3 as well. In just about any other way the new kcm is
better than the old one so I would be glad to use it, but I would like to have
a general consens whether we really care about this.

As for the libgtk dependency, libgtk is small enough that we should be able to
afford it as long as that's the only additional thing that's pulled in.

Regards,
Philip

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Old 07-01-2012, 01:41 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:
> As for the libgtk dependency, libgtk is small enough that we should be able to
> afford it as long as that's the only additional thing that's pulled in.

Honestly, this does not make sense. Why would we pull in libgtk
without actually using it?

HS

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Old 07-01-2012, 01:44 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org> wrote:
> On the other hand, I wouldn't hack such rules in muon, if anywhere this
> should happen in the apt level. If we add weird behaviors in muon, then we
> risk the user thinking that magic is happening and being scared of using it
> comfortably with the solid deb/apt base.

Ah good point, perhaps recommending gtkconfigui | kdeconfigui would be
the better way to handle it, that is if the gtk masters approve of
such a package relationship. Otherwise I don't think this would add
too much spookyness, we need to do similar things for language packs
anyway. So it is just additional KDE convenience on top of dpkg
package relationships.

HS

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Old 07-02-2012, 09:23 AM
Rick Timmis
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On 1 Jul 2012, at 13:21, Aleix Pol <a

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org> wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,

> First of all, I'm glad you're interested in working in this new KCM we made.

> I'm convinced that the new one can add some value.

>

> I have not much to add, about the GTK dependency, it can be compiled without

> the gtk_* executables. In this case you wouldn't get examples but it would

> still work. If it doesn't ping me and we can probably manage it. On the

> other hand, it shows that something wrong is going on. Who'd want to

> configure GTK without GTK installed?



that last point makes me wonder... how about making muon/qapt install

the KCM only once libgtk gets installed? it does indeed not make sense

to configure GTK without having GTK installed so why should we have it

on the CD if there is no GTK on the CD (altho IMHO configuring GTK

altogether does not make sense as it should use Qt's style, but oh

well).



HS



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I guess that if GTK is properly configured in Kubuntu by default, the KCM is not needed. If somebody needs to tweak what the applications look like, he can install that. Maybe.


On the other hand, I wouldn't hack such rules in muon, if anywhere this should happen in the apt level. If we add weird behaviors in muon, then we risk the user thinking that magic is happening and being scared of using it comfortably with the solid deb/apt base.


Aleix
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This sounds like a very good compromise. I'm in favour of look n feel consistency, and if we can provide something like that across QT and GTK by default, this sound like a good solution to me
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:57 PM
Jonathan Riddell
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

I took a look at kde-gtk-config today.

What we do at the moment is
Copy /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/dot-gtkrc-2.0-kde4
to ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4 on first login
Also copy ~/.kde/env/gtk2-default-theme.rc.sh which exports GTK2_RC_FILES to point to ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4
And run xsettings-kde (a mandriva creation I think) which exports the widget style over xatoms
Use the system settings module kcm-gtk which sets ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4 and Felix has added a patch to notify xsettings-kde when the gtk theme has changed

Setting GTK2_RC_FILES seems redundant given xsettings-kde. xsettings-kde seems like a good way to not overwrite gtk settings for anyone swapping between desktops
This keeps the gtk 2 and 3 settings in sync
but that only works if you have the same theme installed for both, it doesn't let you use gtk 3 themes otherwise

apol's new kde-gtk-config
writes to .gtkrc-2.0 and adds a symlink from .gtkrc-2.0-kde4
and .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
doesn't have any update via xsettings so running apps don't update
it's gtk 3 settings don't do anything while xsettings-kde is running

So I'm unsure what to do. I think the best thing would be to have kde-gtk-config write the config in such a way that it doesn't overwrite settings for using other desktops.

Jonathan

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Old 07-20-2012, 11:02 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default GTK System Settings Module in 12.10

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> I took a look at kde-gtk-config today.
>
> What we do at the moment is
> Copy /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/dot-gtkrc-2.0-kde4
> to ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4 on first login
> Also copy ~/.kde/env/gtk2-default-theme.rc.sh which exports GTK2_RC_FILES to point to ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4
> And run xsettings-kde (a mandriva creation I think) which exports the widget style over xatoms
> Use the system settings module kcm-gtk which sets ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde4 and Felix has added a patch to notify xsettings-kde when the gtk theme has changed
>
> Setting GTK2_RC_FILES seems redundant given xsettings-kde. xsettings-kde seems like a good way to not overwrite gtk settings for anyone swapping between desktops
> This keeps the gtk 2 and 3 settings in sync
> but that only works if you have the same theme installed for both, it doesn't let you use gtk 3 themes otherwise
>
> apol's new kde-gtk-config
> writes to .gtkrc-2.0 and adds a symlink from .gtkrc-2.0-kde4
> and .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
> doesn't have any update via xsettings so running apps don't update
> it's gtk 3 settings don't do anything while xsettings-kde is running
>
> So I'm unsure what to do. I think the best thing would be to have kde-gtk-config write the config in such a way that it doesn't overwrite settings for using other desktops.
>
> Jonathan
>
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But hey, on the other hand we can add the update when there's
xsettings running. Patches welcome

Aleix

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