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Old 06-22-2012, 05:02 PM
Felix Geyer
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 22.06.2012 18:26, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday, June 22, 2012 06:06:10 PM Felix Geyer wrote:
>>> language-selector dropped, patch added to kcm locale to install language
>>> packs
>> This seems like another rushed change without discussion. The new solution
>> doesn't support installing translation packages for anything other than the
>> default Kubuntu applications. Support for installing input methods,
>> dictionaries and also setting the system language is completely missing.
>> Even when Ubuntu ditches the language-selector frontend the data currently
>> provided by /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends will still be
>> available.
> We did discuss moving off the Launchpad infrastructure for translations (I
> think) at the last Kubuntu meeting. I'm certainly not surprised by it. I'd
> expect this is a work in progress.

Right, but this is an unrelated change. It has nothing to do with the
Launchpad translation infrastructure.

It's about installing the right language support packages for the
packages and languages that you install.

Examples are dictionaries, fonts, input methods, libreoffice-l10n-
(if you have LO installed), language-pack-gnome- (if you have a gnome
application installed).

Felix


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Old 06-22-2012, 05:40 PM
Felix Geyer
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 22.06.2012 18:54, David Edmundson wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Felix Geyer <debfx@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> The two bugs I encountered are:
>> - The shutdown button doesn't work.
>> - When switching from kdm to lightdm-kde it didn't pick the KDE Plasma session (which is the only
>> one),
>> instead logging in always failed until I manually selected the KDE Plasma session.
>> I can't reproduce this anymore by purging lightdm and installing it again.
> AFAIK, all of those are fixed. Test on Tuesday and report anything then

That's great to hear, I really like lightdm-kde.

My criticism on the timing still stands though.
We really can't advertise the Kubuntu development release for developers
or experienced users if we change defaults to something with known
and important bugs.
I don't understand why we need to do these things in a rush.

Felix


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Old 06-23-2012, 04:11 AM
James
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On Friday, June 22, 2012 10:29:38 AM Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday, June 22, 2012 11:28:30 AM Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > libreoffice -> calligra - experimental for now, people will moan about
> > inability to save in MS Office formats, but libreoffice is just as buggy I
> > feel, MS Office import is better in calligra, fits in better with the KDE
> > focused aspect of Kubuntu
>
> Consider the moaning to have started then. If this is the path we're on,
> then what's the answer to the question, "How do I get an MS Office format
> document so I can send it to someone?"
>
> I've found this doesn't just affect me, but also my children as they have to
> turn in word and powerpoint files routinely for homework assignments. I
> have one child starting University soon and the University's computer
> requirements were that you could bring any computer you wanted as long as
> it had MS Office.
>
> For documents that will only exist electronically locally, ODF is great, but
> it's not on any practical basis a means for exchange of files which is more
> and more how documents are managed.
>
> If there's a decent converter that we can install so that someone can click
> on an icon and convert it, maybe that's good enough, but the ability to
> save if Office formats is not optional.

It depends on your point of view I suppose. If, as I've heard many people here
state over the years, the goal of Kubuntu is to be the best KDE distro in the
world, then I think personally that Calligra has fully arrived and is now
useable. It also has the added benefit of having more modules than LO with
Krita, Karbon, and Braindump, et all.

In using it (albeit not daily) these last few months, I have yet to be able to
crash a Calligra application (wish I could say the same for Kontact, but I
digress...)

So, with said goal for the board of Kubuntu directly, and with LO a mere
download away (along with OOo and others), I do think it makes sense to have
Calligra as a standard.

As for the general idea that MS Office interopability is a hard requirement for
an office suite, I personally don't buy it given that there are viable
alternatives available. Please note that I am by no means discounting the
reality of many people's work and academic requirements.

Lastly, even if the core Calligra Dev's have maked MS Office formats export as a
"Won't Fix" (I do beleive I have read this somewhere myself) that doen't mean
anyone needing these features can't file a bug report in the meantime.

- James Cain (ronnoc)

> Scott K
>
> P.S. Nothing against Calligra as an application. I've started using
> Calligra Words a fair amount and am coming to like it, but I still have to
> us LO to convert the files to .doc when I'm done.
>
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:42 AM
Steve Riley
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 2012-06-22 11:28:30 Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> Some seed changes I've made:
> kamoso - requested at UDS and equates to cheese on ubuntu
> kopete -> kde-telepathy - it's maintained

Both Kamoso and KDE-Telepathy have hard dependencies on GStreamer. Is this
because they can't work with Phonon, and thus not handle alternate backends?

...Steve


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Old 06-23-2012, 06:55 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:11:37 AM James wrote:
> As for the general idea that MS Office interopability is a hard requirement
> for an office suite, I personally don't buy it given that there are viable
> alternatives available. Please note that I am by no means discounting the
> reality of many people's work and academic requirements.

Everyone who lives in my house from elementary school age up has this
requirement. I think we should showcase KDE applications where they meet
average user requirements, but I don't think we should do so when the don't.

Firefox by default anyone? (how many people use rekonq as their primary
browser?)

Scott K

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:01 AM
Harald Sitter
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Steve Riley <steve@rileyz.net> wrote:
> On 2012-06-22 11:28:30 Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>
>> Some seed changes I've made:
>> kamoso - requested at UDS and equates to cheese on ubuntu
>> kopete -> kde-telepathy - it's maintained
>
> Both Kamoso and KDE-Telepathy have hard dependencies on GStreamer. Is this
> because they can't work with Phonon, and thus not handle alternate backends?

So does qtwebkit/rekonq :P

No clue why KTP does not use Phonon, Kamoso however is out of Phonon's
scope considering the vision Alex has for it (if that still applies
anyway). Phonon is a general purpose library, not a
needs-to-support-every-use-case library.

HS

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:07 AM
Harald Sitter
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:11:37 AM James wrote:
>> As for the general idea that MS Office interopability is a hard requirement
>> for *an office suite, I personally don't buy it given that there are viable
>> alternatives available. Please note that I am by no means discounting the
>> reality of many people's work and academic requirements.
>
> Everyone who lives in my house from elementary school age up has this
> requirement. *I think we should showcase KDE applications where they meet
> average user requirements, but I don't think we should do so when the don't.
>
> Firefox by default anyone? (how many people use rekonq as their primary
> browser?)

2 non-devs + riddell ... see my request for rekonq pre-SRU testing
mail from earlier this month

there is a quality concern as big as the mariana trench if next to no
one on the team actually uses a very important part of the software we
throw out there... also, doogfood? omnomnom -.-

FWIW, since firefox upstream does not want to integrate with the
plasma workspace, while the chromium upstream does, I do believe the
users would be better of with latter

HS

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:19 AM
Steve Riley
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 2012-06-23 09:01:51 Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Steve Riley <steve@rileyz.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2012-06-22 11:28:30 Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Some seed changes I've made:
> >> kamoso - requested at UDS and equates to cheese on ubuntu
> >> kopete -> kde-telepathy - it's maintained
> >
> > Both Kamoso and KDE-Telepathy have hard dependencies on GStreamer. Is this
> > because they can't work with Phonon, and thus not handle alternate
> > backends?
>
> So does qtwebkit/rekonq :P

Well, when I switched Phonon's backend from GStreamer to VLC, I was able to
purge almost everything GStreamer-related, except for two libgstreamer files
which are, you're right, dependencies of qtwebkit.

Kamoso wants to bring in the full set of "base" and "good" GStreamer plugins,
along with other GNOME-ish stuff like bits of glib-networking, gsettings,
gnome-keyring libs.

Actually, KTP wants do the same thing. So it would seem like these aren't
"pure" KDE packages

...Steve


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Old 06-23-2012, 07:21 AM
Steve Riley
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 2012-06-23 02:55:48 Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>
> Firefox by default anyone? (how many people use rekonq as their primary
> browser?)

/me raises hand

I *love* Rekonq. I use the compiled-from-Git build in Sumski's PPA.

...Steve

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:54 AM
Felix Geyer
 
Default seed changes in quantal

On 23.06.2012 09:07, Harald Sitter wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:11:37 AM James wrote:
>>> As for the general idea that MS Office interopability is a hard requirement
>>> for an office suite, I personally don't buy it given that there are viable
>>> alternatives available. Please note that I am by no means discounting the
>>> reality of many people's work and academic requirements.
>> Everyone who lives in my house from elementary school age up has this
>> requirement. I think we should showcase KDE applications where they meet
>> average user requirements, but I don't think we should do so when the don't.
>>
>> Firefox by default anyone? (how many people use rekonq as their primary
>> browser?)
> 2 non-devs + riddell ... see my request for rekonq pre-SRU testing
> mail from earlier this month
>
> there is a quality concern as big as the mariana trench if next to no
> one on the team actually uses a very important part of the software we
> throw out there... also, doogfood? omnomnom -.-

ACK.
Despite some claims in the last default browser debate QtWebkit still
receives zero security support and that seems very unlikely to change
at least for Qt 4.

> FWIW, since firefox upstream does not want to integrate with the
> plasma workspace, while the chromium upstream does, I do believe the
> users would be better of with latter

Yes, now that we moved to universe chromium is imho the best candidate.

Felix


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