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Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Kubuntu Development

 
 
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:49 AM
Colin Watson
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

Hi Kubuntu folks,

At this UDS, the old "archive reorg" topic came up again
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation for those unfamiliar with
it; this page also contains some background for some of the Ubuntu
archive jargon I've inevitably ended up using in this post), and I had a
side discussion with Jonathan about a Kubuntu-related question arising
from it.

Ultimately, I still do plan to move all free software in the archive to
a single consolidated "main" component and express who supports what in
ways that are rather more flexible than (effectively) moving files
around in the pool; but it's clear at this point that I'm only going to
be able to lay the groundwork for that this cycle, not actually do it.
In advance of that, though, my question is as follows: is being in main
actually much more than an obstruction to Kubuntu development these
days?

Up to now, the packages that make up Kubuntu - at least the images you
ship - have been in main at least in part because Canonical was offering
some level of support for them, and thus we wanted to make sure they
passed an explicit review by our security team and the like. Now that
that isn't the case, though, being in main basically means that
Canonical is requiring main inclusion review for Kubuntu even though we
aren't offering support for it, out of step with all other community
flavours, and thus imposing an extra chunk of work on you that nobody
else has to do. That seems rather unfair! When I spoke to him at UDS,
Jonathan seemed to feel the same way, and indicated that you might well
want to consider moving Kubuntu-specific packages to universe.

Now, this is one particular way to look at things, and I realise that
you could cast the question differently. Since the main component has
that extra level of review associated with it and has a more restricted
uploader group, many people do regard it as having an extra claim of
quality. I don't want to be the guy "kicking Kubuntu out of main"; if
we make this change in advance of a more sweeping archive
reorganisation, I'd much rather do it with your consent and indeed
enthusiasm. My conversation with Jonathan suggested that this might
well be forthcoming, but I said I'd mail kubuntu-devel to see what other
people think.

Some other details:

* What effect would such a change have on upgrades? update-manager
shows a "no longer supported by Canonical" message for installed
packages that have been moved from main to universe between releases;
does muon have anything like this? I don't want to scare off Kubuntu
users.

* Moving to universe would imply not using language packs any more,
because uploads to universe don't have translations stripped out and
sent through the Launchpad translations system. Jonathan suggested
that this would be a desirable change for Kubuntu, but I expect that
at the very least it would be a respectable chunk of work for
somebody to unwind all of that infrastructure. (As an aside, we'll
need to think about how this would work post-archive-reorg if more or
less everything ends up in main.)

* A number of Kubuntu-specific packages would need to stay in main for
transitive-closure reasons: source packages in main that, for
example, build bindings for both GTKish and Qtish worlds will
generally build-depend on both, which will cause those
build-dependencies to stay in main along with all their
(build-)dependencies. I don't want to encourage people to start
splitting source packages for the sake of this, so a number of base
packages would stay in main regardless. Still, lots of UI packages
would be able to drop out to a component with less restrictive
processes.

I've attached a file showing a first pass at what the results would
have been if we'd done this for 12.04.

* Are there any effects on mirroring that you care about? Right now,
it's in principle possible to run an archive mirror useful to Kubuntu
users with only main (and maybe restricted). This change would mean
you'd have to have universe as well. On the other hand, Xubuntu et
al have this problem today anyway, and maybe you only care about
things like the major per-country mirror network which carries
everything.

* Would there be any "soft" questions of PR and the like that would
need to be addressed?

Thanks,

--
Colin Watson [cjwatson@ubuntu.com]
Generated: Wed May 23 11:46:49 UTC 2012

Source and binary movements to universe
---------------------------------------

o amarok: amarok amarok-common amarok-dbg amarok-help-de amarok-help-en amarok-help-es amarok-help-et amarok-help-fr amarok-help-it amarok-help-nl amarok-help-pt amarok-help-pt-br amarok-help-ru amarok-help-sv amarok-help-uk amarok-utils
o analitza: analitza-dbg analitza-dev libanalitza4abi1 libanalitzagui4abi1
o ark: ark ark-dbg
o avogadro: avogadro-data libavogadro-dev libavogadro1 python-avogadro
o bgoffice: myspell-bg wbulgarian
o bluedevil: bluedevil
o calligra: braindump calligra calligra-data calligra-dbg calligra-dev calligra-libs calligraflow calligraflow-data calligramobile calligraplan calligrasheets calligrastage calligrawords calligrawords-data karbon kexi krita krita-data kthesaurus
o calligra-l10n: calligra-l10n-ca calligra-l10n-cavalencia calligra-l10n-cs calligra-l10n-da calligra-l10n-de calligra-l10n-el calligra-l10n-engb calligra-l10n-es calligra-l10n-et calligra-l10n-fi calligra-l10n-fr calligra-l10n-hu calligra-l10n-it calligra-l10n-kk calligra-l10n-nb calligra-l10n-nds calligra-l10n-nl calligra-l10n-pl calligra-l10n-pt calligra-l10n-ptbr calligra-l10n-ru calligra-l10n-sk calligra-l10n-sv calligra-l10n-uk calligra-l10n-zhcn calligra-l10n-zhtw
o cdrdao: cdrdao
o cfitsio3: libcfitsio3 libcfitsio3-dbg libcfitsio3-dev libcfitsio3-doc
o choqok: choqok
o create-resources: create-resources
o dict-nr: myspell-nr
o dict-ss: myspell-ss
o dict-st: myspell-st
o dict-tn: myspell-tn
o dict-ts: myspell-ts
o dict-ve: myspell-ve
o dict-zu: myspell-zu
o dsdo: wdanish
o dutch: myspell-nl wdutch
o ebook-tools: ebook-tools-dbg libepub-dev libepub0
o eigen2: libeigen2-dev libeigen2-doc
o eo-spell: myspell-eo
o facile: libfacile-ocaml-dev
o filelight: filelight
o fonts-arphic-ukai: fonts-arphic-ukai ttf-arphic-ukai
o fonts-dustin: fonts-dustin ttf-dustin
o fonts-manchufont: fonts-manchufont
o fonts-mgopen: fonts-mgopen
o fonts-nafees: fonts-nafees
o fonts-sil-ezra: fonts-sil-ezra
o fonts-sil-padauk: fonts-sil-padauk
o fonts-sil-scheherazade: fonts-sil-scheherazade
o fortune-mod: fortune-mod fortunes-min
o ggz-client-libs: ggzcore-bin libggzcore-dev libggzcore9 libggzmod-dev libggzmod4
o gle: gle-doc libgle3 libgle3-dev
o glew1.5: libglew1.5 libglew1.5-dev libglewmx1.5 libglewmx1.5-dev
o gnugo: gnugo
o gtk-im-libthai: gtk-im-libthai
o gtk2-engines-oxygen: gtk2-engines-oxygen
o gwenview: gwenview gwenview-dbg
o hunspell-gl-es: hunspell-gl-es
o hunspell-sv: hunspell-sv-se myspell-sv-se
o ibus-qt: ibus-qt4 libibus-qt-dev libibus-qt1
o ibus-unikey: ibus-unikey
o igaelic: myspell-gd
o iirish: myspell-ga wirish
o imanx: myspell-gv wmanx
o ipolish: myspell-pl wpolish
o ispell-czech: myspell-cs
o ispell-et: myspell-et
o ispell-fo: myspell-fo wfaroese
o ispell-gl: wgalician-minimos
o ispell-uk: myspell-uk wukrainian
o ispellcat: myspell-ca wcatalan
o jovie: jovie kttsd
o k3b: k3b k3b-data k3b-dbg libk3b-dev libk3b6 libk3b6-extracodecs
o kaccessible: kaccessible
o kalgebra: kalgebra kalgebra-common kalgebra-dbg
o kalzium: kalzium kalzium-data kalzium-dbg
o kamera: kamera kamera-dbg
o kanagram: kanagram kanagram-dbg
o kbruch: kbruch kbruch-dbg
o kcalc: kcalc
o kcharselect: kcharselect
o kcm-gtk: kcm-gtk kde-config-gtk
o kcolorchooser: kcolorchooser
o kde-l10n-ar: kde-l10n-ar
o kde-l10n-bg: kde-l10n-bg
o kde-l10n-bs: kde-l10n-bs
o kde-l10n-ca: kde-l10n-ca
o kde-l10n-ca-valencia: kde-l10n-ca-valencia
o kde-l10n-cs: kde-l10n-cs
o kde-l10n-csb: kde-l10n-csb
o kde-l10n-da: kde-l10n-da
o kde-l10n-de: kde-l10n-de
o kde-l10n-el: kde-l10n-el
o kde-l10n-engb: kde-l10n-engb
o kde-l10n-eo: kde-l10n-eo
o kde-l10n-es: kde-l10n-es
o kde-l10n-et: kde-l10n-et
o kde-l10n-eu: kde-l10n-eu
o kde-l10n-fa: kde-l10n-fa
o kde-l10n-fi: kde-l10n-fi
o kde-l10n-fr: kde-l10n-fr
o kde-l10n-fy: kde-l10n-fy
o kde-l10n-ga: kde-l10n-ga
o kde-l10n-gl: kde-l10n-gl
o kde-l10n-gu: kde-l10n-gu
o kde-l10n-he: kde-l10n-he
o kde-l10n-hi: kde-l10n-hi
o kde-l10n-hr: kde-l10n-hr
o kde-l10n-hu: kde-l10n-hu
o kde-l10n-ia: kde-l10n-ia
o kde-l10n-id: kde-l10n-id
o kde-l10n-is: kde-l10n-is
o kde-l10n-it: kde-l10n-it
o kde-l10n-ja: kde-l10n-ja
o kde-l10n-kk: kde-l10n-kk
o kde-l10n-km: kde-l10n-km
o kde-l10n-kn: kde-l10n-kn
o kde-l10n-ko: kde-l10n-ko
o kde-l10n-lt: kde-l10n-lt
o kde-l10n-lv: kde-l10n-lv
o kde-l10n-mai: kde-l10n-mai
o kde-l10n-mk: kde-l10n-mk
o kde-l10n-ml: kde-l10n-ml
o kde-l10n-nb: kde-l10n-nb
o kde-l10n-nds: kde-l10n-nds
o kde-l10n-nl: kde-l10n-nl
o kde-l10n-nn: kde-l10n-nn
o kde-l10n-pa: kde-l10n-pa
o kde-l10n-pl: kde-l10n-pl
o kde-l10n-pt: kde-l10n-pt
o kde-l10n-ptbr: kde-l10n-ptbr
o kde-l10n-ro: kde-l10n-ro
o kde-l10n-ru: kde-l10n-ru
o kde-l10n-si: kde-l10n-si
o kde-l10n-sk: kde-l10n-sk
o kde-l10n-sl: kde-l10n-sl
o kde-l10n-sr: kde-l10n-sr
o kde-l10n-sv: kde-l10n-sv
o kde-l10n-tg: kde-l10n-tg
o kde-l10n-th: kde-l10n-th
o kde-l10n-tr: kde-l10n-tr
o kde-l10n-ug: kde-l10n-ug
o kde-l10n-uk: kde-l10n-uk
o kde-l10n-vi: kde-l10n-vi
o kde-l10n-wa: kde-l10n-wa
o kde-l10n-zhcn: kde-l10n-zhcn
o kde-l10n-zhtw: kde-l10n-zhtw
o kde-wallpapers: kde-wallpapers kde-wallpapers-default
o kdeadmin: kcron kde-config-cron kdeadmin kdeadmin-dbg ksystemlog kuser system-config-printer-kde
o kdeartwork: kde-icons-mono kdeartwork-dbg
o kdegames: bomber bovo kajongg kapman katomic kbattleship kblackbox kblocks kbounce kbreakout kdegames kdegames-card-data kdegames-card-data-extra kdegames-dbg kdegames-mahjongg-data kdiamond kfourinline kgoldrunner kigo killbots kiriki kjumpingcube klickety klines kmahjongg kmines knetwalk kolf kollision konquest kpat kreversi kshisen ksirk kspaceduel ksquares ksudoku ktron ktuberling kubrick libkdegames-dev libkdegames5a libkggzgames4 libkggzmod4 libkggznet4 libkmahjongglib4 lskat palapeli palapeli-data
o kdegraphics-mobipocket: kdegraphics-mobipocket
o kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer: kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer
o kdegraphics-thumbnailers: kdegraphics-thumbnailers
o kdemultimedia: dragonplayer juk kde-config-cddb kdemultimedia kdemultimedia-dbg kdemultimedia-dev kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kmix kscd libkcddb-dev libkcddb4
o kdenetwork: kde-zeroconf kdenetwork kdenetwork-dbg kdenetwork-filesharing kget kopete kppp krdc krfb libkopete-dev libkopete4
o kdepim: akregator blogilo kaddressbook kalarm kdepim kdepim-dbg kdepim-dev kdepim-doc kdepim-kresources kdepim-strigi-plugins kjots kmail knode knotes konsolekalendar kontact korganizer ktimetracker libcalendarsupport4 libeventviews4 libincidenceeditorsng4 libkdepim4 libkdepimdbusinterfaces4 libkdgantt2 libkleo4 libkmanagesieve4 libkpgp4 libksieve4 libksieveui4 libmailcommon4 libmessagecomposer4 libmessagecore4 libmessagelist4 libmessageviewer4 libtemplateparser4 tasks-icons
o kdeplasma-addons: kdeplasma-addons kdeplasma-addons-dbg plasma-containments-addons plasma-dataengines-addons plasma-runners-addons plasma-wallpapers-addons plasma-widget-kimpanel plasma-widget-lancelot plasma-widgets-addons
o kdesudo: kdesudo
o kdetoys: amor kdetoys kdetoys-dbg kteatime ktux
o kdewebdev: kdewebdev kdewebdev-dbg kfilereplace kimagemapeditor klinkstatus kommander
o kdf: kdf
o kgamma: kgamma
o kgeography: kgeography kgeography-data
o kgpg: kgpg
o khangman: khangman
o kig: kig
o klettres: klettres klettres-data
o kmag: kmag
o kmousetool: kmousetool
o kmouth: kmouth
o kmplot: kmplot
o kolourpaint: kolourpaint4
o konversation: konversation konversation-data konversation-dbg
o konwert: konwert konwert-dev konwert-filters
o kopete-message-indicator: kopete-message-indicator
o kremotecontrol: kremotecontrol
o kross-interpreters: krosspython
o kruler: kruler
o ksaneplugin: ksaneplugin
o ksnapshot: ksnapshot
o kstars: kstars kstars-data
o ktimer: ktimer
o ktorrent: ktorrent ktorrent-data ktorrent-dbg plasma-widget-ktorrent
o ktouch: ktouch ktouch-data
o kturtle: kturtle
o kubuntu-default-settings: kubuntu-default-settings plymouth-theme-kubuntu-logo
o kubuntu-docs: kubuntu-docs
o kubuntu-firefox-installer: kubuntu-firefox-installer
o kubuntu-meta: kubuntu-desktop kubuntu-full kubuntu-netbook
o kubuntu-netbook-default-settings: kubuntu-netbook-default-settings
o kubuntu-notification-helper: kubuntu-notification-helper kubuntu-notification-helper-dbg
o kubuntu-web-shortcuts: kubuntu-web-shortcuts
o kvkbd: kvkbd
o kwallet: kwalletmanager
o kwordquiz: kwordquiz
o language-pack-kde-aa: language-pack-kde-aa
o language-pack-kde-aa-base: language-pack-kde-aa-base
o language-pack-kde-af: language-pack-kde-af
o language-pack-kde-af-base: language-pack-kde-af-base
o language-pack-kde-am: language-pack-kde-am
o language-pack-kde-am-base: language-pack-kde-am-base
o language-pack-kde-an: language-pack-kde-an
o language-pack-kde-an-base: language-pack-kde-an-base
o language-pack-kde-ar: language-pack-kde-ar
o language-pack-kde-ar-base: language-pack-kde-ar-base
o language-pack-kde-as: language-pack-kde-as
o language-pack-kde-as-base: language-pack-kde-as-base
o language-pack-kde-ast: language-pack-kde-ast
o language-pack-kde-ast-base: language-pack-kde-ast-base
o language-pack-kde-az: language-pack-kde-az
o language-pack-kde-az-base: language-pack-kde-az-base
o language-pack-kde-be: language-pack-kde-be
o language-pack-kde-be-base: language-pack-kde-be-base
o language-pack-kde-bg: language-pack-kde-bg
o language-pack-kde-bg-base: language-pack-kde-bg-base
o language-pack-kde-bn: language-pack-kde-bn
o language-pack-kde-bn-base: language-pack-kde-bn-base
o language-pack-kde-bo: language-pack-kde-bo
o language-pack-kde-bo-base: language-pack-kde-bo-base
o language-pack-kde-br: language-pack-kde-br
o language-pack-kde-br-base: language-pack-kde-br-base
o language-pack-kde-bs: language-pack-kde-bs
o language-pack-kde-bs-base: language-pack-kde-bs-base
o language-pack-kde-ca: language-pack-kde-ca
o language-pack-kde-ca-base: language-pack-kde-ca-base
o language-pack-kde-crh: language-pack-kde-crh
o language-pack-kde-crh-base: language-pack-kde-crh-base
o language-pack-kde-cs: language-pack-kde-cs
o language-pack-kde-cs-base: language-pack-kde-cs-base
o language-pack-kde-csb: language-pack-kde-csb
o language-pack-kde-csb-base: language-pack-kde-csb-base
o language-pack-kde-cy: language-pack-kde-cy
o language-pack-kde-cy-base: language-pack-kde-cy-base
o language-pack-kde-da: language-pack-kde-da
o language-pack-kde-da-base: language-pack-kde-da-base
o language-pack-kde-de: language-pack-kde-de
o language-pack-kde-de-base: language-pack-kde-de-base
o language-pack-kde-dv: language-pack-kde-dv
o language-pack-kde-dv-base: language-pack-kde-dv-base
o language-pack-kde-el: language-pack-kde-el
o language-pack-kde-el-base: language-pack-kde-el-base
o language-pack-kde-en: language-pack-kde-en
o language-pack-kde-en-base: language-pack-kde-en-base
o language-pack-kde-eo: language-pack-kde-eo
o language-pack-kde-eo-base: language-pack-kde-eo-base
o language-pack-kde-es: language-pack-kde-es
o language-pack-kde-es-base: language-pack-kde-es-base
o language-pack-kde-et: language-pack-kde-et
o language-pack-kde-et-base: language-pack-kde-et-base
o language-pack-kde-eu: language-pack-kde-eu
o language-pack-kde-eu-base: language-pack-kde-eu-base
o language-pack-kde-fa: language-pack-kde-fa
o language-pack-kde-fa-base: language-pack-kde-fa-base
o language-pack-kde-fi: language-pack-kde-fi
o language-pack-kde-fi-base: language-pack-kde-fi-base
o language-pack-kde-fil: language-pack-kde-fil
o language-pack-kde-fil-base: language-pack-kde-fil-base
o language-pack-kde-fo: language-pack-kde-fo
o language-pack-kde-fo-base: language-pack-kde-fo-base
o language-pack-kde-fr: language-pack-kde-fr
o language-pack-kde-fr-base: language-pack-kde-fr-base
o language-pack-kde-fur: language-pack-kde-fur
o language-pack-kde-fur-base: language-pack-kde-fur-base
o language-pack-kde-fy: language-pack-kde-fy
o language-pack-kde-fy-base: language-pack-kde-fy-base
o language-pack-kde-ga: language-pack-kde-ga
o language-pack-kde-ga-base: language-pack-kde-ga-base
o language-pack-kde-gd: language-pack-kde-gd
o language-pack-kde-gd-base: language-pack-kde-gd-base
o language-pack-kde-gl: language-pack-kde-gl
o language-pack-kde-gl-base: language-pack-kde-gl-base
o language-pack-kde-gu: language-pack-kde-gu
o language-pack-kde-gu-base: language-pack-kde-gu-base
o language-pack-kde-gv: language-pack-kde-gv
o language-pack-kde-gv-base: language-pack-kde-gv-base
o language-pack-kde-ha: language-pack-kde-ha
o language-pack-kde-ha-base: language-pack-kde-ha-base
o language-pack-kde-he: language-pack-kde-he
o language-pack-kde-he-base: language-pack-kde-he-base
o language-pack-kde-hi: language-pack-kde-hi
o language-pack-kde-hi-base: language-pack-kde-hi-base
o language-pack-kde-hne: language-pack-kde-hne
o language-pack-kde-hne-base: language-pack-kde-hne-base
o language-pack-kde-hr: language-pack-kde-hr
o language-pack-kde-hr-base: language-pack-kde-hr-base
o language-pack-kde-hsb: language-pack-kde-hsb
o language-pack-kde-hsb-base: language-pack-kde-hsb-base
o language-pack-kde-ht: language-pack-kde-ht
o language-pack-kde-ht-base: language-pack-kde-ht-base
o language-pack-kde-hu: language-pack-kde-hu
o language-pack-kde-hu-base: language-pack-kde-hu-base
o language-pack-kde-hy: language-pack-kde-hy
o language-pack-kde-hy-base: language-pack-kde-hy-base
o language-pack-kde-ia: language-pack-kde-ia
o language-pack-kde-ia-base: language-pack-kde-ia-base
o language-pack-kde-id: language-pack-kde-id
o language-pack-kde-id-base: language-pack-kde-id-base
o language-pack-kde-is: language-pack-kde-is
o language-pack-kde-is-base: language-pack-kde-is-base
o language-pack-kde-it: language-pack-kde-it
o language-pack-kde-it-base: language-pack-kde-it-base
o language-pack-kde-ja: language-pack-kde-ja
o language-pack-kde-ja-base: language-pack-kde-ja-base
o language-pack-kde-ka: language-pack-kde-ka
o language-pack-kde-ka-base: language-pack-kde-ka-base
o language-pack-kde-kk: language-pack-kde-kk
o language-pack-kde-kk-base: language-pack-kde-kk-base
o language-pack-kde-kl: language-pack-kde-kl
o language-pack-kde-kl-base: language-pack-kde-kl-base
o language-pack-kde-km: language-pack-kde-km
o language-pack-kde-km-base: language-pack-kde-km-base
o language-pack-kde-kn: language-pack-kde-kn
o language-pack-kde-kn-base: language-pack-kde-kn-base
o language-pack-kde-ko: language-pack-kde-ko
o language-pack-kde-ko-base: language-pack-kde-ko-base
o language-pack-kde-ku: language-pack-kde-ku
o language-pack-kde-ku-base: language-pack-kde-ku-base
o language-pack-kde-kw: language-pack-kde-kw
o language-pack-kde-kw-base: language-pack-kde-kw-base
o language-pack-kde-ky: language-pack-kde-ky
o language-pack-kde-ky-base: language-pack-kde-ky-base
o language-pack-kde-la: language-pack-kde-la
o language-pack-kde-la-base: language-pack-kde-la-base
o language-pack-kde-lb: language-pack-kde-lb
o language-pack-kde-lb-base: language-pack-kde-lb-base
o language-pack-kde-lo: language-pack-kde-lo
o language-pack-kde-lo-base: language-pack-kde-lo-base
o language-pack-kde-lt: language-pack-kde-lt
o language-pack-kde-lt-base: language-pack-kde-lt-base
o language-pack-kde-lv: language-pack-kde-lv
o language-pack-kde-lv-base: language-pack-kde-lv-base
o language-pack-kde-mai: language-pack-kde-mai
o language-pack-kde-mai-base: language-pack-kde-mai-base
o language-pack-kde-mg: language-pack-kde-mg
o language-pack-kde-mg-base: language-pack-kde-mg-base
o language-pack-kde-mhr: language-pack-kde-mhr
o language-pack-kde-mhr-base: language-pack-kde-mhr-base
o language-pack-kde-mk: language-pack-kde-mk
o language-pack-kde-mk-base: language-pack-kde-mk-base
o language-pack-kde-ml: language-pack-kde-ml
o language-pack-kde-ml-base: language-pack-kde-ml-base
o language-pack-kde-mn: language-pack-kde-mn
o language-pack-kde-mn-base: language-pack-kde-mn-base
o language-pack-kde-mr: language-pack-kde-mr
o language-pack-kde-mr-base: language-pack-kde-mr-base
o language-pack-kde-ms: language-pack-kde-ms
o language-pack-kde-ms-base: language-pack-kde-ms-base
o language-pack-kde-mt: language-pack-kde-mt
o language-pack-kde-mt-base: language-pack-kde-mt-base
o language-pack-kde-my: language-pack-kde-my
o language-pack-kde-my-base: language-pack-kde-my-base
o language-pack-kde-nb: language-pack-kde-nb
o language-pack-kde-nb-base: language-pack-kde-nb-base
o language-pack-kde-nds: language-pack-kde-nds
o language-pack-kde-nds-base: language-pack-kde-nds-base
o language-pack-kde-ne: language-pack-kde-ne
o language-pack-kde-ne-base: language-pack-kde-ne-base
o language-pack-kde-nl: language-pack-kde-nl
o language-pack-kde-nl-base: language-pack-kde-nl-base
o language-pack-kde-nn: language-pack-kde-nn
o language-pack-kde-nn-base: language-pack-kde-nn-base
o language-pack-kde-oc: language-pack-kde-oc
o language-pack-kde-oc-base: language-pack-kde-oc-base
o language-pack-kde-om: language-pack-kde-om
o language-pack-kde-om-base: language-pack-kde-om-base
o language-pack-kde-or: language-pack-kde-or
o language-pack-kde-or-base: language-pack-kde-or-base
o language-pack-kde-pa: language-pack-kde-pa
o language-pack-kde-pa-base: language-pack-kde-pa-base
o language-pack-kde-pl: language-pack-kde-pl
o language-pack-kde-pl-base: language-pack-kde-pl-base
o language-pack-kde-ps: language-pack-kde-ps
o language-pack-kde-ps-base: language-pack-kde-ps-base
o language-pack-kde-pt: language-pack-kde-pt
o language-pack-kde-pt-base: language-pack-kde-pt-base
o language-pack-kde-ro: language-pack-kde-ro
o language-pack-kde-ro-base: language-pack-kde-ro-base
o language-pack-kde-ru: language-pack-kde-ru
o language-pack-kde-ru-base: language-pack-kde-ru-base
o language-pack-kde-rw: language-pack-kde-rw
o language-pack-kde-rw-base: language-pack-kde-rw-base
o language-pack-kde-sd: language-pack-kde-sd
o language-pack-kde-sd-base: language-pack-kde-sd-base
o language-pack-kde-se: language-pack-kde-se
o language-pack-kde-se-base: language-pack-kde-se-base
o language-pack-kde-si: language-pack-kde-si
o language-pack-kde-si-base: language-pack-kde-si-base
o language-pack-kde-sk: language-pack-kde-sk
o language-pack-kde-sk-base: language-pack-kde-sk-base
o language-pack-kde-sl: language-pack-kde-sl
o language-pack-kde-sl-base: language-pack-kde-sl-base
o language-pack-kde-sq: language-pack-kde-sq
o language-pack-kde-sq-base: language-pack-kde-sq-base
o language-pack-kde-sr: language-pack-kde-sr
o language-pack-kde-sr-base: language-pack-kde-sr-base
o language-pack-kde-ss: language-pack-kde-ss
o language-pack-kde-ss-base: language-pack-kde-ss-base
o language-pack-kde-st: language-pack-kde-st
o language-pack-kde-st-base: language-pack-kde-st-base
o language-pack-kde-sv: language-pack-kde-sv
o language-pack-kde-sv-base: language-pack-kde-sv-base
o language-pack-kde-sw: language-pack-kde-sw
o language-pack-kde-sw-base: language-pack-kde-sw-base
o language-pack-kde-ta: language-pack-kde-ta
o language-pack-kde-ta-base: language-pack-kde-ta-base
o language-pack-kde-te: language-pack-kde-te
o language-pack-kde-te-base: language-pack-kde-te-base
o language-pack-kde-tg: language-pack-kde-tg
o language-pack-kde-tg-base: language-pack-kde-tg-base
o language-pack-kde-th: language-pack-kde-th
o language-pack-kde-th-base: language-pack-kde-th-base
o language-pack-kde-tl: language-pack-kde-tl
o language-pack-kde-tl-base: language-pack-kde-tl-base
o language-pack-kde-tlh: language-pack-kde-tlh
o language-pack-kde-tlh-base: language-pack-kde-tlh-base
o language-pack-kde-tr: language-pack-kde-tr
o language-pack-kde-tr-base: language-pack-kde-tr-base
o language-pack-kde-tt: language-pack-kde-tt
o language-pack-kde-tt-base: language-pack-kde-tt-base
o language-pack-kde-ug: language-pack-kde-ug
o language-pack-kde-ug-base: language-pack-kde-ug-base
o language-pack-kde-uk: language-pack-kde-uk
o language-pack-kde-uk-base: language-pack-kde-uk-base
o language-pack-kde-ur: language-pack-kde-ur
o language-pack-kde-ur-base: language-pack-kde-ur-base
o language-pack-kde-uz: language-pack-kde-uz
o language-pack-kde-uz-base: language-pack-kde-uz-base
o language-pack-kde-vi: language-pack-kde-vi
o language-pack-kde-vi-base: language-pack-kde-vi-base
o language-pack-kde-wa: language-pack-kde-wa
o language-pack-kde-wa-base: language-pack-kde-wa-base
o language-pack-kde-wae: language-pack-kde-wae
o language-pack-kde-wae-base: language-pack-kde-wae-base
o language-pack-kde-xh: language-pack-kde-xh
o language-pack-kde-xh-base: language-pack-kde-xh-base
o libbluedevil: libbluedevil-dev libbluedevil1
o libcue: libcue-dev libcue1
o libfli1: libfli-dev libfli1
o libggz: libggz-dev libggz2
o libifp: libifp-dev libifp4
o libindi: indi-dbg libindi-data libindi-dev libindi0
o libindicate-qt: libindicate-qt-dev libindicate-qt1
o libkdcraw: libkdcraw-data libkdcraw-dev libkdcraw20 libkdcraw20-dbg
o libkdeedu: kdeedu-kvtml-data libkdeedu-data libkdeedu-dbg libkdeedu-dev libkeduvocdocument4
o libkexiv2: libkexiv2-10 libkexiv2-data libkexiv2-dbg libkexiv2-dev
o libkipi: libkipi-data libkipi-dbg libkipi-dev libkipi8
o libksane: libksane-data libksane-dbg libksane-dev libksane0
o libktorrent: libktorrent-dbg libktorrent-dev libktorrent-l10n libktorrent3
o liblastfm: liblastfm-dbg liblastfm-dev liblastfm-fingerprint0 liblastfm0
o libmad: libmad0 libmad0-dev
o libmpc: libmpcdec-dev libmpcdec6
o libmsn: libmsn-dev libmsn0.3 libmsn0.3-dbg
o libmygpo-qt: libmygpo-qt-dev libmygpo-qt1
o libnjb: libnjb-dev libnjb-doc libnjb5
o libnova: libnova-0.12-2 libnova-dev
o libotr: libotr2 libotr2-dev
o libpqxx3: libpqxx-3.1 libpqxx-3.1-dbg libpqxx3-dev libpqxx3-doc
o libqtgtl: libqtgtl-dev libqtgtl0.1 libqtshiva0.1
o libreplaygain: libreplaygain-dev libreplaygain1
o libspnav: libspnav-dev libspnav0
o libxbase: libxbase2.0-0 libxbase2.0-dev
o libzip: libzip-dev libzip2
o loudmouth: libloudmouth1-0 libloudmouth1-0-dbg libloudmouth1-dev
o marble: libmarble-dev libmarblewidget13 marble marble-data marble-dbg marble-plugins
o muon: libmuonprivate1 muon muon-dbg muon-installer muon-notifier muon-updater
o myspell-el-gr: myspell-el-gr
o myspell-fa: myspell-fa
o myspell-hy: myspell-hy
o myspell-ku: myspell-ku
o myspell-lv: myspell-lv
o myspell-sk: myspell-sk
o myspell-sl: myspell-sl
o networkmanagement: plasma-widget-networkmanagement plasma-widget-networkmanagement-dbg
o norwegian: myspell-nb myspell-nn wnorwegian
o okular: libokularcore1abi1 okular okular-dbg okular-dev okular-extra-backends
o openal-soft: libopenal-data libopenal-dev libopenal1
o openbabel: libopenbabel-dev libopenbabel-doc libopenbabel4
o opengtl: libgtlcore0.8 libgtlfragment0.8 libgtlimageio0.8 libopenctl0.8 libopenshiva0.8 opengtl-dev
o oxygen-gtk3: gtk3-engines-oxygen
o oxygencursors: oxygen-cursor-theme oxygen-cursor-theme-extra
o parley: parley parley-data
o partitionmanager: partitionmanager
o plasma-widget-facebook: plasma-widget-facebook
o plasma-widget-menubar: plasma-widget-menubar
o plasma-widget-message-indicator: plasma-widget-message-indicator
o plotutils: libplot-dev libplot2c2
o polkit-kde-1: polkit-kde-1
o printer-applet: printer-applet
o pstoedit: libpstoedit-dev libpstoedit0c2a pstoedit
o pyenchant: python-enchant
o python-iniparse: python-iniparse
o python-levenshtein: python-levenshtein
o python-vobject: python-vobject
o pyudev: python-pyudev
o qca2-plugin-ossl: libqca2-plugin-ossl
o qoauth: libqoauth-dev libqoauth1
o qtscriptgenerator: libqtscript4-core libqtscript4-doc libqtscript4-gui libqtscript4-network libqtscript4-sql libqtscript4-uitools libqtscript4-xml
o quassel: quassel quassel-data quassel-dbg
o qwt: libqwt-dev libqwt-doc libqwt6
o rdesktop: rdesktop
o rekonq: rekonq rekonq-dbg
o rocs: rocs rocs-dbg
o skanlite: skanlite skanlite-dbg
o speedcrunch: speedcrunch
o step: step
o superkaramba: plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba
o svgpart: svgpart
o swedish: wswedish
o sweeper: sweeper
o synaptiks: kcm-touchpad kde-config-touchpad
o taglib-extras: libtag-extras-dev libtag-extras1
o tmispell-voikko: tmispell-voikko
o translate-toolkit: translate-toolkit translate-toolkit-dev-doc
o userconfig: userconfig
o witalian: witalian
o xplanet: xplanet xplanet-images
o xscreensaver: xscreensaver xscreensaver-data xscreensaver-gl
o xsettings-kde: xsettings-kde
o xuxen-eu-spell: hunspell-eu-es

================================================== ====================

Binary only movements to universe
---------------------------------

o apport-kde {apport}
o apturl-kde {apturl}
o cdparanoia {cdparanoia}
o libenchant-voikko {enchant}
o fonts-sil-abyssinica {fonts-sil-abyssinica}
o fonts-takao-gothic fonts-takao-mincho {fonts-takao}
o fonts-tibetan-machine {fonts-tibetan-machine}
o gpgsm {gnupg2}
o myspell-he {hspell}
o myspell-lt {ispell-lt}
o jockey-kde {jockey}
o kate kwrite libkateinterfaces4 {kate}
o dolphin kde-baseapps kde-baseapps-bin kde-baseapps-data kdebase-dbg kdepasswd kfind konq-plugins konqueror konqueror-nsplugins plasma-widget-folderview{kde-baseapps}
o kdebase-runtime khelpcenter4 {kde-runtime}
o freespacenotifier kde-style-oxygen kde-window-manager kde-window-manager-common kde-workspace kde-workspace-bin kde-workspace-data kde-workspace-data-extras kde-workspace-kgreet-plugins kdebase-workspace kdm kinfocenter klipper kmenuedit ksysguard ksysguardd plasma-dataengines-workspace plasma-desktop plasma-netbook plasma-scriptengine-python plasma-widgets-workspace systemsettings{kde-workspace}
o kdepimlibs5 {kdepimlibs}
o cervisia cvsservice kapptemplate kcachegrind kdesdk kdesdk-dbg kdesdk-dolphin-plugins kdesdk-kio-plugins kdesdk-misc kdesdk-strigi-plugins kmtrace kompare kpartloader kuiviewer lokalize umbrello{kdesdk}
o libjpeg-turbo-progs {libjpeg-turbo}
o libjpeg-progs {libjpeg8-empty}
o lirc {lirc}
o kdeaccessibility kdeedu kdegraphics kdegraphics-libs-data kdeutils{meta-kde}
o myspell-hr {myspell-hr}
o libmysqld-pic {mysql-5.5}
o network-manager-kde {networkmanagement (0.9.0.1-0ubuntu2)}
o myspell-af myspell-it myspell-sw myspell-th{openoffice.org-dictionaries (1:3.3.0~rc10-2ubuntu3)}
o pinentry-qt4 {pinentry}
o plymouth-theme-kubuntu-text {plymouth}
o gstreamer0.10-qapt qapt-deb-installer {qapt}
o libqscintilla2-designer python-qscintilla2 {qscintilla2}
o qt-x11-free-dbg {qt-x11-free}
o libqt4-sql-odbc libqt4-sql-psql qt4-doc-html {qt4-x11}
o libqtwebkit-qmlwebkitplugin {qtwebkit-source}
o software-properties-kde {software-properties}
o oem-config-kde ubiquity-frontend-kde {ubiquity}
o ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu {ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu}
o update-manager-kde {update-manager}
o usb-creator-kde {usb-creator}
o virtuoso-nepomuk {virtuoso-opensource}

================================================== ====================

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:44 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

Hi Colin,

I regret being unable to attend UDS in person, but I hope you had a
good time and aren't suffering from the Ubuflu.

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Colin Watson <cjwatson@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hi Kubuntu folks,
>
> At this UDS, the old "archive reorg" topic came up again
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation for those unfamiliar with
> it; this page also contains some background for some of the Ubuntu
> archive jargon I've inevitably ended up using in this post), and I had a
> side discussion with Jonathan about a Kubuntu-related question arising
> from it.
>
> Ultimately, I still do plan to move all free software in the archive to
> a single consolidated "main" component and express who supports what in
> ways that are rather more flexible than (effectively) moving files
> around in the pool; but it's clear at this point that I'm only going to
> be able to lay the groundwork for that this cycle, not actually do it.
> In advance of that, though, my question is as follows: is being in main
> actually much more than an obstruction to Kubuntu development these
> days?
>
> Up to now, the packages that make up Kubuntu - at least the images you
> ship - have been in main at least in part because Canonical was offering
> some level of support for them, and thus we wanted to make sure they
> passed an explicit review by our security team and the like. *Now that
> that isn't the case, though, being in main basically means that
> Canonical is requiring main inclusion review for Kubuntu even though we
> aren't offering support for it, out of step with all other community
> flavours, and thus imposing an extra chunk of work on you that nobody
> else has to do. *That seems rather unfair! *When I spoke to him at UDS,
> Jonathan seemed to feel the same way, and indicated that you might well
> want to consider moving Kubuntu-specific packages to universe.
>
> Now, this is one particular way to look at things, and I realise that
> you could cast the question differently. *Since the main component has
> that extra level of review associated with it and has a more restricted
> uploader group, many people do regard it as having an extra claim of
> quality. *I don't want to be the guy "kicking Kubuntu out of main"; if
> we make this change in advance of a more sweeping archive
> reorganisation, I'd much rather do it with your consent and indeed
> enthusiasm. *My conversation with Jonathan suggested that this might
> well be forthcoming, but I said I'd mail kubuntu-devel to see what other
> people think.

I think moving from main would be beneficial to us. Currently, there
are several Kubuntu packages with optional build-dependencies on
universe components providing extra functionality that we cannot build
against. In addition to us missing out on a few nice features, it also
makes packaging diffs with Debian just a bit larger, which is
undesirable. In my experience, I don't think there's any protest
amongst the Kubuntu team about whether or not a move from main ->
universe is desirable, but I'll let them speak for themselves. ;-)

>
> Some other details:
>
> ** What effect would such a change have on upgrades? *update-manager
> * shows a "no longer supported by Canonical" message for installed
> * packages that have been moved from main to universe between releases;
> * does muon have anything like this? *I don't want to scare off Kubuntu
> * users.

Currently all Muon is doing is running a script based on
update-manager's MetaReleaseCore class to check for distribution
updates, and offering to launch the Qt distribution upgrade frontend
to update-manager if a new release is available. This would mean that
all the Kubuntu packages would show up as "no longer supported by
Canonical." I hadn't thought of this point, but it definitely would
need to be addressed.

>
> ** Moving to universe would imply not using language packs any more,
> * because uploads to universe don't have translations stripped out and
> * sent through the Launchpad translations system. *Jonathan suggested
> * that this would be a desirable change for Kubuntu, but I expect that
> * at the very least it would be a respectable chunk of work for
> * somebody to unwind all of that infrastructure. *(As an aside, we'll
> * need to think about how this would work post-archive-reorg if more or
> * less everything ends up in main.)

The work required wouldn't be exactly non-trivial, but I don't think
it would be too onerous either. After the removal of the packaging
magic that we use to strip the stuff from Kubuntu packages properly,
all that would need to be done would be to rebuild all of the affected
packages. We already upload per-language language packs that KDE
provides. These end up getting stripped down to only providing the
translated documentation KDE distributes, but if these were no longer
stripped, we'd only have to rebuild these, too. This would provide KDE
language packs much like the ones Ubuntu is shipping. (At least in
terms of coverage) We would still probably have to at least keep some
of the language-selector stack around for getting things like
translations for firefox and other non KDE apps that users may
install.

>
> ** A number of Kubuntu-specific packages would need to stay in main for
> * transitive-closure reasons: source packages in main that, for
> * example, build bindings for both GTKish and Qtish worlds will
> * generally build-depend on both, which will cause those
> * build-dependencies to stay in main along with all their
> * (build-)dependencies. *I don't want to encourage people to start
> * splitting source packages for the sake of this, so a number of base
> * packages would stay in main regardless. *Still, lots of UI packages
> * would be able to drop out to a component with less restrictive
> * processes.
>
> * I've attached a file showing a first pass at what the results would
> * have been if we'd done this for 12.04.
>
> ** Are there any effects on mirroring that you care about? *Right now,
> * it's in principle possible to run an archive mirror useful to Kubuntu
> * users with only main (and maybe restricted). *This change would mean
> * you'd have to have universe as well. *On the other hand, Xubuntu et
> * al have this problem today anyway, and maybe you only care about
> * things like the major per-country mirror network which carries
> * everything.
>
> ** Would there be any "soft" questions of PR and the like that would
> * need to be addressed?

Probably most of the damage was done by Canonical's announcement of
dropping support. We would of course frame this as giving us more
flexibility, but I think it would be better if we didn't make a big
deal about this. (imo)

>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Colin Watson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * [cjwatson@ubuntu.com]

Thanks again for the update!

Cheers,
Jonathan

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:55 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:49:54 PM Colin Watson wrote:
> Hi Kubuntu folks,
>
> At this UDS, the old "archive reorg" topic came up again
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation for those unfamiliar with
> it; this page also contains some background for some of the Ubuntu
> archive jargon I've inevitably ended up using in this post), and I had a
> side discussion with Jonathan about a Kubuntu-related question arising
> from it.
>
> Ultimately, I still do plan to move all free software in the archive to
> a single consolidated "main" component and express who supports what in
> ways that are rather more flexible than (effectively) moving files
> around in the pool; but it's clear at this point that I'm only going to
> be able to lay the groundwork for that this cycle, not actually do it.
> In advance of that, though, my question is as follows: is being in main
> actually much more than an obstruction to Kubuntu development these
> days?
>
> Up to now, the packages that make up Kubuntu - at least the images you
> ship - have been in main at least in part because Canonical was offering
> some level of support for them, and thus we wanted to make sure they
> passed an explicit review by our security team and the like. Now that
> that isn't the case, though, being in main basically means that
> Canonical is requiring main inclusion review for Kubuntu even though we
> aren't offering support for it, out of step with all other community
> flavours, and thus imposing an extra chunk of work on you that nobody
> else has to do. That seems rather unfair! When I spoke to him at UDS,
> Jonathan seemed to feel the same way, and indicated that you might well
> want to consider moving Kubuntu-specific packages to universe.
>
> Now, this is one particular way to look at things, and I realise that
> you could cast the question differently. Since the main component has
> that extra level of review associated with it and has a more restricted
> uploader group, many people do regard it as having an extra claim of
> quality. I don't want to be the guy "kicking Kubuntu out of main"; if
> we make this change in advance of a more sweeping archive
> reorganisation, I'd much rather do it with your consent and indeed
> enthusiasm. My conversation with Jonathan suggested that this might
> well be forthcoming, but I said I'd mail kubuntu-devel to see what other
> people think.
>
> Some other details:
>
> * What effect would such a change have on upgrades? update-manager
> shows a "no longer supported by Canonical" message for installed
> packages that have been moved from main to universe between releases;
> does muon have anything like this? I don't want to scare off Kubuntu
> users.

Which, depending on what 'supported' means is accurate (see below).

> * Moving to universe would imply not using language packs any more,
> because uploads to universe don't have translations stripped out and
> sent through the Launchpad translations system. Jonathan suggested
> that this would be a desirable change for Kubuntu, but I expect that
> at the very least it would be a respectable chunk of work for
> somebody to unwind all of that infrastructure. (As an aside, we'll
> need to think about how this would work post-archive-reorg if more or
> less everything ends up in main.)

This is the biggest plus associated with moving to Universe, IMO. The
infrastructure is fragile enough that I don't think it's particularly more
work to unwind it than keep it. Since upstream KDE already ships per language
translations the primary advantage with the LP language system isn't
applicable to KDE.

> * A number of Kubuntu-specific packages would need to stay in main for
> transitive-closure reasons: source packages in main that, for
> example, build bindings for both GTKish and Qtish worlds will
> generally build-depend on both, which will cause those
> build-dependencies to stay in main along with all their
> (build-)dependencies. I don't want to encourage people to start
> splitting source packages for the sake of this, so a number of base
> packages would stay in main regardless. Still, lots of UI packages
> would be able to drop out to a component with less restrictive
> processes.
>
> I've attached a file showing a first pass at what the results would
> have been if we'd done this for 12.04.
>
> * Are there any effects on mirroring that you care about? Right now,
> it's in principle possible to run an archive mirror useful to Kubuntu
> users with only main (and maybe restricted). This change would mean
> you'd have to have universe as well. On the other hand, Xubuntu et
> al have this problem today anyway, and maybe you only care about
> things like the major per-country mirror network which carries
> everything.
>
> * Would there be any "soft" questions of PR and the like that would
> need to be addressed?

I suspect we've hit those already, so it's not a major driver.

The benefits to staying in Main, as I see it:

- Canonical security team support (if they aren't willing to support, then I
think we're pretty much by definition out of Main)

- Some PR advantage

- Limited set of non-Kubuntuish uploaders. There are some people with MOTU
upload rights that I wouldn't want going anywhere near Kubuntu packages and so
I see it as a positive feature that they can't. The kubuntu-dev process is
responsive enough that it's easier for someone working on Kubuntu to get that
then MOTU, so in terms of Kubuntu related upload rights, there's no particular
advantage moving to Universe.

- Build priorities: Thanks to Colin's recent efforts our seeded packages would
still build after unseeded Universe packages, but would build after everything
in Main/Restrictred is done. At busy times (and when we're trying to get a
new KDE SC release uploaded, built, and announced) this is going to have a
significant impact on how long it takes to get stuff done.

Other than security support (and I would assume the availability of commercial
support contracts, but I don't actually know about that) there isn't a lot of
post-release support for Kubuntu specific to it being a supported flavors.
We're doing post-release microversion KDE SC updates, for example, and those
are all done by the Kubuntu community.

There are some things we could do in Universe that we can't in Main and we
avoid the work of the MIR process, but if things are not going to get through
the MIR process, it's probably just as well we don't ship them by default. I
think the process has enough value that it's not just work avoided if we don't
have to do it, we lose a significant QA point as well.

I have assumed we're going to have to move to Universe, but have a preference
not to if we have a choice in the matter.

Scott K

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:57 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 08:44:37 AM Jonathan Thomas wrote:
...
> I think moving from main would be beneficial to us. Currently, there
> are several Kubuntu packages with optional build-dependencies on
> universe components providing extra functionality that we cannot build
> against. In addition to us missing out on a few nice features, it also
> makes packaging diffs with Debian just a bit larger, which is
> undesirable. In my experience, I don't think there's any protest
> amongst the Kubuntu team about whether or not a move from main ->
> universe is desirable, but I'll let them speak for themselves. ;-)
...

This is a good point that I forgot to write. My preference to stay in Main is
not strong as I see the benefits of moving, but I would still prefer to stay in
Main if we can.

Scott K

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Old 05-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 08:44:37 AM Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> ...
>> I think moving from main would be beneficial to us. Currently, there
>> are several Kubuntu packages with optional build-dependencies on
>> universe components providing extra functionality that we cannot build
>> against. In addition to us missing out on a few nice features, it also
>> makes packaging diffs with Debian just a bit larger, which is
>> undesirable. In my experience, I don't think there's any protest
>> amongst the Kubuntu team about whether or not a move from main ->
>> universe is desirable, but I'll let them speak for themselves. ;-)
> ...
>
> This is a good point that I forgot to write. *My preference to stay in Main is
> not strong as I see the benefits of moving, but I would still prefer to stay in
> Main if we can.

Does it have to be either or? Couldn't we mixed seed?
i.e. have most of our stuff in main, and when necessary demote/keep
packages in universe to accommodate the build dep issue highlighted

FWIW, having to compromise on available features because a build dep
was not worth getting it into main (or simply does not qualify for
legal reasons) always annoyed me.

HS

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Old 05-23-2012, 01:11 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Kubuntu and main/universe

On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 03:06:03 PM Harald Sitter wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 08:44:37 AM Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >> I think moving from main would be beneficial to us. Currently, there
> >> are several Kubuntu packages with optional build-dependencies on
> >> universe components providing extra functionality that we cannot build
> >> against. In addition to us missing out on a few nice features, it also
> >> makes packaging diffs with Debian just a bit larger, which is
> >> undesirable. In my experience, I don't think there's any protest
> >> amongst the Kubuntu team about whether or not a move from main ->
> >> universe is desirable, but I'll let them speak for themselves. ;-)
> >
> > ...
> >
> > This is a good point that I forgot to write. My preference to stay in
> > Main is not strong as I see the benefits of moving, but I would still
> > prefer to stay in Main if we can.
>
> Does it have to be either or? Couldn't we mixed seed?
> i.e. have most of our stuff in main, and when necessary demote/keep
> packages in universe to accommodate the build dep issue highlighted
>
> FWIW, having to compromise on available features because a build dep
> was not worth getting it into main (or simply does not qualify for
> legal reasons) always annoyed me.

We could split the seeds into a Main/on the $ISO and a Universe/on the $ISO
seeds. That would complicate the decision making about what needs to go in
Main considerably if our images are built to include Universe. Technically
it's feasible, but I don't think there's another case of an set of packages
split this way. Edubuntu has a bunch of stuff in Main, but that's only because
of overlap between it's packages and Gnome/KDE.

Scott K

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