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Old 04-24-2012, 02:19 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

Hi!
As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
repositories browse the available applications and provide the
(hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
for.

Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv

We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):
https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff

I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu
community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about
this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.

Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the
screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the
screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications
users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are
properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment
it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for
this if somebody is interested.

Cheers!
Aleix

[1]
http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail
http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact
http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop
http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular

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Old 04-24-2012, 03:33 PM
Giuseppe Pennisi
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

2012/4/24 Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org>:
> Hi!
> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
> repositories browse the available applications and provide the
> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
> for.
>
> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
Awesome.
Great works!
This UI is more efficient and intuitive for a distro user-centric.
I hope your work will be appreciated for next Kubuntu releases.

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Old 04-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@kde.org> wrote:
> Hi!
> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
> repositories browse the available applications and provide the
> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
> for.
>
> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
> We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):
> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff
>
> I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu
> community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about
> this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.
>
> Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the
> screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the
> screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications
> users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are
> properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment
> it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for
> this if somebody is interested.
>
> Cheers!
> Aleix
>
> [1]
> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail
> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact
> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop
> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular

I forgot, I'd also like to improve its integration with the distro
(kubuntu, debian, netrunner, you name it) by making it possible to
define sources for the top marquee, review services, etc. It would be
interesting if you could comment on this too.

Aleix

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Old 04-24-2012, 05:12 PM
Tres Finocchiaro
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:


http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
Your video is very nice. *You may want to consider putting it on*YouTube*for mobile viewers as well.

The interface seems to be very well thought-out.*I'm a big fan of what Ubuntu has provided for a software manager, and Muon seems to be similar in a lot of ways.

Room for*improvement:
Search relevance:
Kalgebra is a "featured" or "advertised" product, but when you search for "Math", you have to scroll down quite a bit to find it.

Consistency*in browsing:

In one screen you get a nice thumbnail view (afer clicking on "Eductation"), however when you search for "Math", you get a different style list without thumbnails.

Install experience:

I didn't see a demo of using Muon for installing a downloaded .deb file (I use this a lot for VirtualBox) but in Linux Mint this breaks for VirtualBox upgrades. *This experience can make or break it for the REAL audience, since most people on this mailing list are comfortable with dpkg and apt-get.
Very fine work, and thanks for asking for feedback!
-Tres

-Tres
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:52 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Tres Finocchiaro
<fatbuttlarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
>> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
>
> Your video is very nice. *You may want to consider putting it on*YouTube*for
> mobile viewers as well.
>
> The interface seems to be very well thought-out.*I'm a big fan of what
> Ubuntu has provided for a software manager, and Muon seems to be similar in
> a lot of ways.
>
> Room for*improvement:
>
> Search relevance:
> Kalgebra is a "featured" or "advertised" product, but when you search for
> "Math", you have to scroll down quite a bit to find it.
>
> Consistency*in browsing:
> In one screen you get a nice thumbnail view (afer clicking on "Eductation"),
> however when you search for "Math", you get a different style list without
> thumbnails.
>
> Install experience:
> I didn't see a demo of using Muon for installing a downloaded .deb file (I
> use this a lot for VirtualBox) but in Linux Mint this breaks for VirtualBox
> upgrades. *This experience can make or break it for the REAL audience, since
> most people on this mailing list are comfortable with dpkg and apt-get.

.deb files are handled via the QApt Deb Installer, and don't involve
Muon at all. This has been the case for Kubuntu 11.10 and up.

>
> Very fine work, and thanks for asking for feedback!
>
> -Tres
>
>
> -Tres
>
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Tres Finocchiaro
<fatbuttlarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
>> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
>
> Your video is very nice. *You may want to consider putting it on*YouTube*for
> mobile viewers as well.
>
> The interface seems to be very well thought-out.*I'm a big fan of what
> Ubuntu has provided for a software manager, and Muon seems to be similar in
> a lot of ways.
>
> Room for*improvement:
>
> Search relevance:
> Kalgebra is a "featured" or "advertised" product, but when you search for
> "Math", you have to scroll down quite a bit to find it.
True.
The whole featured concept is not mature yet. Something to work on, definitely.

>
> Consistency*in browsing:
> In one screen you get a nice thumbnail view (afer clicking on "Eductation"),
> however when you search for "Math", you get a different style list without
> thumbnails.
True, and it's like this by design, we considered that lists are
better to show searches, grids are better to explore. It's a very
subjective decision, if you have good ideas regarding this, feel free
to tell me and we'll see what can be done .

>
> Install experience:
> I didn't see a demo of using Muon for installing a downloaded .deb file (I
> use this a lot for VirtualBox) but in Linux Mint this breaks for VirtualBox
> upgrades. *This experience can make or break it for the REAL audience, since
> most people on this mailing list are comfortable with dpkg and apt-get.

See Jonathan Thomas answer ^^.

>
> Very fine work, and thanks for asking for feedback!
>
> -Tres
>
>
> -Tres
>
> --
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> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>

I'm happy you like it, let's try to make it rock!

Aleix

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Old 04-24-2012, 10:36 PM
James
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 04:19:19 PM Aleix Pol wrote:

> Hi!

> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon

> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to

> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all

> repositories browse the available applications and provide the

> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking

> for.

>

> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:

> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv

>

> We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):

> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff

>

> I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu

> community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about

> this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.

>

> Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the

> screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the

> screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications

> users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are

> properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment

> it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for

> this if somebody is interested.

>

> Cheers!

> Aleix

>

> [1]

> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail

> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact

> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop

> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular

*

This looks like a great start and also a much-needed tool for deepening the end-user's experience. We are all maily used to the "app store" philosophy now, and this is especially true for new Linux users who are used to an Apple or Android-type experience. Also, I really like the sort options!

*

One question for discussion however: How can all this be presented properly to the end user so that it is not confusing? There is already potential confusion withon Muon itself: new users do not understand the difference between the Muon Package Manager and Muon Software Center, let alone throw in Muon Update Manager. See here for expample

*

Do you see this as a replacement for the Muon Software Center? Keep up the good work

*

- James Cain

*

*

*
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:52 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

As project maintainer for the Muon Suite, the way I see things going
is keeping the existing QWidget-based Muon Software Center throughout
the life of Qt/KDE4, as it will integrate best with the current
Qt/KDE4 QWidget-based environment. I'll probably port the existing
Software Center to Qt5 when the switch occurs in major distributions,
but development will pretty much be "finished" in that no more new
features will be added. Qt5 will remain mostly source-compatible with
Qt4,so this shouldn't be more than just changing a few #includes in
the source code. Essentially, the current Software Center will go in
to maintenance mode.

When KDE Foundations 5 bears fruit and we get a comprehensive
KDE-standard way of writing QML applications (The Qt QML Desktop
Components currently targeted for release for Qt 5.1 or 5.2 seem to be
a prime candidate for this) is the time when I see Muon Discover
"taking over the reigns" as the official app installer of the Muon
Suite. I believe Aleix has even made a branch in Git that uses the
alpha version of the QML Desktop Components. My main concern is that
KDE apps will "jump the gun" with QML and start to re-implement all
their widgets and themes in QML and lose coherence with the rest of
the KDE desktop, and I don't want that to happen with Muon.

But as it stands, Muon Discover currently uses Plasma QML components
for widgets/theming and integrates beautifully with the Plasma Active
environment. I could very well see shipping Muon Discover next release
as part of Kubuntu Active.

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:36 PM, James <james.cain.25@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 04:19:19 PM Aleix Pol wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>
>> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
>
>> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
>
>> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
>
>> repositories browse the available applications and provide the
>
>> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
>
>> for.
>
>>
>
>> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
>
>> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
>>
>
>> We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):
>
>> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff
>
>>
>
>> I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu
>
>> community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about
>
>> this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.
>
>>
>
>> Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the
>
>> screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the
>
>> screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications
>
>> users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are
>
>> properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment
>
>> it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for
>
>> this if somebody is interested.
>
>>
>
>> Cheers!
>
>> Aleix
>
>>
>
>> [1]
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular
>
>
>
> This looks like a great start and also a much-needed tool for deepening the
> end-user's experience. We are all maily used to the "app store" philosophy
> now, and this is especially true for new Linux users who are used to an
> Apple or Android-type experience. Also, I really like the sort options!
>
>
>
> One question for discussion however: How can all this be presented properly
> to the end user so that it is not confusing? There is already potential
> confusion withon Muon itself: new users do not understand the difference
> between the Muon Package Manager and Muon Software Center, let alone throw
> in Muon Update Manager. See here for expample
>
>
>
> Do you see this as a replacement for the Muon Software Center? Keep up the
> good work
>
>
>
> - James Cain
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>

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Old 04-24-2012, 11:30 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:36 AM, James <james.cain.25@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 04:19:19 PM Aleix Pol wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>
>> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
>
>> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
>
>> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
>
>> repositories browse the available applications and provide the
>
>> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
>
>> for.
>
>>
>
>> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
>
>> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>
>>
>
>> We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):
>
>> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff
>
>>
>
>> I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu
>
>> community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about
>
>> this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.
>
>>
>
>> Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the
>
>> screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the
>
>> screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications
>
>> users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are
>
>> properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment
>
>> it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for
>
>> this if somebody is interested.
>
>>
>
>> Cheers!
>
>> Aleix
>
>>
>
>> [1]
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop
>
>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular
>
>
>
> This looks like a great start and also a much-needed tool for deepening the
> end-user's experience. We are all maily used to the "app store" philosophy
> now, and this is especially true for new Linux users who are used to an
> Apple or Android-type experience. Also, I really like the sort options!

Well, the thought behind the project is that even though we've had a
strategical advantage of having software repositories, something that
proprietary services couldn't dream of just some years ago. I still
remember showing it to my (back then) boss at university, he felt the
amazing power it has but he had no interest of installing a weird
system on his computer (he actually switched from winxp to OS X, 2 or
3 years after).

GUI package managers such as synaptic the kpackagekit kubuntu had some
time ago were not useful for the end user. Not because they're stupid,
but because they're given information they're not interested about
(why does an end user even care about having libpng on a GUI?). From
my point of view, anybody who would have used these UI's could use the
CLI just as well, other users just made their way after frustration
and sadness.

I believe that's why Muon and Ubuntu Software center appeared by
providing a tool that lists just applications on your computer and
displays them by categories.

In Muon Discover, I tried to twist this definition a little bit by
trying to create a place to find resources for your computer where you
go to when you have a notion of the application you might want but you
still need to figure it out, there you can browse it or if you wish,
discover it. That is, it's not an end-user application, it's an
application that can be used by anyone. Also it was created using the
newest graphic technologies we have at the moment, i.e. QtQuick so
that we don't get constrained from the technology regarding what's
going to be presented (when reviewing Muon Installer, I considered
this could have been a show-stopper).

>
> One question for discussion however: How can all this be presented properly
> to the end user so that it is not confusing? There is already potential
> confusion withon Muon itself: new users do not understand the difference
> between the Muon Package Manager and Muon Software Center, let alone throw
> in Muon Update Manager. See here for expample
>
>
>
> Do you see this as a replacement for the Muon Software Center? Keep up the
> good work

I think that discover and installer are quite redundant. Also I think
that the package manager shouldn't be provided to the end user by
default. That said, I think it's up to you guys to decide what would
you like KUbuntu users to use. Like Jonathan says in the e-mail below,
the installer has some advantages too, mainly the better integration
with the Oxygen style. I'd like to solve this problem for granted and
I'm working on it, but I'm afraid it might take some time.

This shouldn't keep you guys from trying it, though.

>
>
>
> - James Cain
>
>
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Aleix

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Old 04-24-2012, 11:37 PM
Aleix Pol
 
Default KUbuntu and Muon Discover

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Jonathan Thomas <echidnaman@gmail.com> wrote:
> As project maintainer for the Muon Suite, the way I see things going
> is keeping the existing QWidget-based Muon Software Center throughout
> the life of Qt/KDE4, as it will integrate best with the current
> Qt/KDE4 QWidget-based environment. I'll probably port the existing
> Software Center to Qt5 when the switch occurs in major distributions,
> but development will pretty much be "finished" in that no more new
> features will be added. Qt5 will remain mostly source-compatible with
> Qt4,so this shouldn't be more than just changing a few #includes in
> the source code. Essentially, the current Software Center will go in
> to maintenance mode.
>
> When KDE Foundations 5 bears fruit and we get a comprehensive
> KDE-standard way of writing QML applications (The Qt QML Desktop
> Components currently targeted for release for Qt 5.1 or 5.2 seem to be
> a prime candidate for this) is the time when I see Muon Discover
> "taking over the reigns" as the official app installer of the Muon
> Suite. I believe Aleix has even made a branch in Git that uses the
> alpha version of the QML Desktop Components. My main concern is that
> KDE apps will "jump the gun" with QML and start to re-implement all
> their widgets and themes in QML and lose coherence with the rest of
> the KDE desktop, and I don't want that to happen with Muon.

Yes, there's such a branch using desktop components (again video, in
case anyone is interested [1]). I must say the port from Plasma
Components to Desktop Components so it's not really a big deal.

I must say that all KDE applications won't implement their styling and
there's a very simple reason for that, we'd need a huge amount of
artwork we don't have access to .

Anyhow, I'll make my best to have Muon Discover as much integrated
with KDE as possible.

>
> But as it stands, Muon Discover currently uses Plasma QML components
> for widgets/theming and integrates beautifully with the Plasma Active
> environment. I could very well see shipping Muon Discover next release
> as part of Kubuntu Active.

I should warn you that Muon Discover wasn't tested on any touch device
and things might not work. My interest regarding Muon Discover is for
workspace-like uses so I'm not sure I'll try that any time soon. Of
course, patches are welcome and I'll be glad to help.

>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:36 PM, James <james.cain.25@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 04:19:19 PM Aleix Pol wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>
>>> As some of you will know already, I've been working on a new Muon
>>
>>> sub-project called Muon Discover. The idea of this application is to
>>
>>> provide a comfortable application where we can navigate through all
>>
>>> repositories browse the available applications and provide the
>>
>>> (hopefully) best tool to find the closest to what the user's looking
>>
>>> for.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Here there's a video displaying what it does, in case you're just curious:
>>
>>> http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-qml-8.ogv
>>
>>>
>>
>>> We have created a ppa providing this (and some other stuff):
>>
>>> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I'm sending this e-mail because I'd like to know what the KUbuntu
>>
>>> community thinks about this, so if you happen to have comments about
>>
>>> this, don't hesitate to answer here or contact me.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Also I'd like to remind the kubuntu community that the
>>
>>> screenshots.debian.org service is responsible for feeding us the
>>
>>> screenshots that will be displayed to the future KDE applications
>>
>>> users, so some initiative for making sure KDE applications are
>>
>>> properly represented there would be helpful, because at the moment
>>
>>> it's not on the best state (proofs [1]). I have created some tools for
>>
>>> this if somebody is interested.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Cheers!
>>
>>> Aleix
>>
>>>
>>
>>> [1]
>>
>>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kmail
>>
>>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kontact
>>
>>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/kdevelop
>>
>>> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/okular
>>
>>
>>
>> This looks like a great start and also a much-needed tool for deepening the
>> end-user's experience. We are all maily used to the "app store" philosophy
>> now, and this is especially true for new Linux users who are used to an
>> Apple or Android-type experience. Also, I really like the sort options!
>>
>>
>>
>> One question for discussion however: How can all this be presented properly
>> to the end user so that it is not confusing? There is already potential
>> confusion withon Muon itself: new users do not understand the difference
>> between the Muon Package Manager and Muon Software Center, let alone throw
>> in Muon Update Manager. See here for expample
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you see this as a replacement for the Muon Software Center? Keep up the
>> good work
>>
>>
>>
>> - James Cain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Aleix

[1] http://proli.net/meu/netrunner/muon-installer-desktopcomponents2.ogv

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