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Old 03-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default KDE Telepathy or Kopete

On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 05:29:57 PM Harald Sitter wrote:
> Lo'
>
> As we do not agree on whether we agree on a decision I'd like everyone
> to cast a vote in favor of KTP or Kopete as default for 12.04. The
> relevant discussion can be found at [1].

My vote is for Kopete.

There are four reasons for this:

1. LTS is not the time to make a major technology change. This should be
done in LTS +1.

2. Not integrated to our desktop - I think Message Indicator support is
essential unless we drop this from our default panel layout. There are other
feature parity issues, but I think this is the critical one.

3. KTP upstream request (in this thread):

> Personally I'd rather you kept Kopete for now but I can see why you
> don't want to maintain Kopete backends for another 3 years.

4. Maintainability.

That last point might require a bit of discussion as I think it's somewhat
backwards from the way most would look at it.

I don't think we need to worry a lot about Kopete maintenance other than
security issues. It does what it does. It doesn't do what it doesn't do.
The code doesn't churn much from release to release, so there's not a lot of
risk that a year or two from now some serious performance bug will be
identified that someone will have to figure out without help from (the almost
dead) upstream.

KTP, OTOH, is a young code base that is evolving rapidly. I think the chance
we can be confident to have fully stabilized and all significant issues
identified at or near release is much lower. By the time we hit such things,
the KTP project will have moved on to newer code and not be in a position to
provide much support.

Support really comes down to security issues. As an application (or stack of
applications) that directly connect to the outside world, they are at risk of
latent security issues being discovered at ~any point in the support period.

This is a 5 year LTS. For the first year or so, if there are such issues in
Kopete, we can count on KDE SC 4.8 being supported by upstream. After that,
we'll have to look at fixes from other distros or later KDE SC releases or
write them ourselves. Since Kopete code is not changing much, the chances, in
later parts of the support cycle when 4.8 is no longer supported, of security
fixes from later KDE SC releases being easily backported to 4.8 are pretty
good.

For KDE Telepathy, the opposite is true. Since they are in rapid development,
the chances that any fixes for later releases would apply to 12.04 would be
much lower.

Supporting an LTS is about stability and security, not the latest wizbang. I
think KDE Telepathy is comng along nicely and I support shifting to it as
default immediately for 12.10, but now is not the time.

Scott K

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Old 03-27-2012, 04:47 PM
David Edmundson
 
Default KDE Telepathy or Kopete

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 05:29:57 PM Harald Sitter wrote:
>> Lo'
>>
>> As we do not agree on whether we agree on a decision I'd like everyone
>> to cast a vote in favor of KTP or Kopete as default for 12.04. The
>> relevant discussion can be found at [1].
>
> My vote is for Kopete.
>
> There are four reasons for this:
>
> 1. *LTS is not the time to make a major technology change. *This should be
> done in LTS +1.
>
> 2. *Not integrated to our desktop - I think Message Indicator support is
> essential unless we drop this from our default panel layout. *There are other
> feature parity issues, but I think this is the critical one.
>
> 3. *KTP upstream request (in this thread):
>
>> Personally I'd rather you kept Kopete for now but I can see why you
>> don't want to maintain Kopete backends for another 3 years.
>
> 4. *Maintainability.
>
> That last point might require a bit of discussion as I think it's somewhat
> backwards from the way most would look at it.
>
> I don't think we need to worry a lot about Kopete maintenance other than
> security issues. *It does what it does. *It doesn't do what it doesn't do.
> The code doesn't churn much from release to release, so there's not a lot of
> risk that a year or two from now some serious performance bug will be
> identified that someone will have to figure out without help from (the almost
> dead) upstream.

That's not entirely true in the case of IM. IM is a bit different
because it relies on servers and protocols (often reversed engineered)
which can randomly change. MSN (for example) are known to change their
protocol and after a while not allow anyone using the older version.

So a bug can "appear" later, which doesn't exist now. Which is awful
but quite likely.


> KTP, OTOH, is a young code base that is evolving rapidly. *I think the chance
> we can be confident to have fully stabilized and all significant issues
> identified at or near release is much lower. *By the time we hit such things,
> the KTP project will have moved on to newer code and not be in a position to
> provide much support.
>
> Support really comes down to security issues. *As an application (or stack of
> applications) that directly connect to the outside world, they are at risk of
> latent security issues being discovered at ~any point in the support period.
>
> This is a 5 year LTS. *For the first year or so, if there are such issues in
> Kopete, we can count on KDE SC 4.8 being supported by upstream. *After that,
> we'll have to look at fixes from other distros or later KDE SC releases or
> write them ourselves. *Since Kopete code is not changing much, the chances, in
> later parts of the support cycle when 4.8 is no longer supported, of security
> fixes from later KDE SC releases being easily backported to 4.8 are pretty
> good.
>
> For KDE Telepathy, the opposite is true. *Since they are in rapid development,
> the chances that any fixes for later releases would apply to 12.04 would be
> much lower.
>
> Supporting an LTS is about stability and security, not the latest wizbang. *I
> think KDE Telepathy is comng along nicely and I support shifting to it as
> default immediately for 12.10, but now is not the time.
>
> Scott K
>
> --
> kubuntu-devel mailing list
> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel

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Old 03-27-2012, 04:52 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default KDE Telepathy or Kopete

On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 05:47:40 PM David Edmundson wrote:
> > I don't think we need to worry a lot about Kopete maintenance other than
> > security issues. It does what it does. It doesn't do what it doesn't
> > do. The code doesn't churn much from release to release, so there's not
> > a lot of risk that a year or two from now some serious performance bug
> > will be identified that someone will have to figure out without help
> > from (the almost dead) upstream.
>
> That's not entirely true in the case of IM. IM is a bit different
> because it relies on servers and protocols (often reversed engineered)
> which can randomly change. MSN (for example) are known to change their
> protocol and after a while not allow anyone using the older version.
>
> So a bug can "appear" later, which doesn't exist now. Which is awful
> but quite likely.

This is a good point, but I think my points about backportability of fixes from
later releases apply here too (up to the point where KDE Telepathy achieves
world domination).

Scott K

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