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Old 02-11-2012, 02:14 PM
Philip Muskovac
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On IRC we had a discussion about buggy graphics drivers [1], which
include an issue with the nvidia blob [2] and the open source ati driver
[3].


A workaround for those is telling KDM to not reset the current X session
but telling it to actually restart X by setting

TerminateServer=true
in kdmrc.

<yofel> ossi: so the only difference between that being off and on is
that logout is slower? (And you don't notice driver bugs)

<ossi> yofel: basically, yes

On my eeePC I don't notice any slowdown, and on my thinkpad shutting
down plasma takes longer than restarting X. So do we want to eventually
use that for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?
And if yes, when should we enable that? Now, to get more regression
testing, or later to have a longer testing phase for the drivers?


Philip

[1] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/02/11/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t13:19
[2] http://pad.lv/930614
[3] http://pad.lv/651294

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Old 02-11-2012, 05:14 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:
> So do we want to eventually use that
> for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?

Depends on whether the bugs are not getting fixed in time :P

> And if yes,
> when should we enable that? Now, to get more regression testing, or later to
> have a longer testing phase for the drivers?

Just before final freeze, chances are stuff is being fixed by then, so
we might not need to turn it on at all.

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Old 02-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter.harald@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:
>> So do we want to eventually use that
>> for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?
>
> Depends on whether the bugs are not getting fixed in time :P

The nVidia one has intermittently been around forever, so I wouldn't
expect much there.

>
>> And if yes,
>> when should we enable that? Now, to get more regression testing, or later to
>> have a longer testing phase for the drivers?
>
> Just before final freeze, chances are stuff is being fixed by then, so
> we might not need to turn it on at all.
>
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel

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Old 02-11-2012, 05:31 PM
Nikola Schnelle
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter.harald@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:

> So do we want to eventually use that

> for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?



Depends on whether the bugs are not getting fixed in time :P
*I am using opensource radeon driver. Since Kubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, I have to uncomment *"TerminateServer=true" line if I want to be able to log out.*
I am using latest radeon and mesa drivers from git, and it is still not fixed.*So I really don't expect to be fixed in driver.




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Old 02-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jonathan Thomas <echidnaman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter.harald@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> So do we want to eventually use that
>>> for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?
>>
>> Depends on whether the bugs are not getting fixed in time :P
>
> The nVidia one has intermittently been around forever, so I wouldn't
> expect much there.

Well, they certainly won't feel very motivated to fix their crap when
everyone starts restarting X to work around their rubbish software? :P

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Old 02-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Saturday, February 11, 2012 07:31:48 PM Nikola Schnelle wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Harald Sitter
<sitter.harald@gmail.com>wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Philip Muskovac <yofel@gmx.net> wrote:
> > > So do we want to eventually use that
> > > for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?
> >
> > Depends on whether the bugs are not getting fixed in time :P
>
> I am using opensource radeon driver. Since Kubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, I have to
> uncomment "TerminateServer=true" line if I want to be able to log out.
> I am using latest radeon and mesa drivers from git, and it is still not
> fixed.
> So I really don't expect to be fixed in driver.

Part of the problem is that (at least for Intel, and probably other free
drivers) the developers tend to run Gnome and it restarts the X server every
time, thus they never experience this class of bugs.

Scott K

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Old 02-12-2012, 04:47 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On Saturday, February 11, 2012 04:14:24 PM Philip Muskovac wrote:
> On IRC we had a discussion about buggy graphics drivers [1], which
> include an issue with the nvidia blob [2] and the open source ati driver
> [3].
>
> A workaround for those is telling KDM to not reset the current X session
> but telling it to actually restart X by setting
> TerminateServer=true
> in kdmrc.
>
> <yofel> ossi: so the only difference between that being off and on is
> that logout is slower? (And you don't notice driver bugs)
> <ossi> yofel: basically, yes
>
> On my eeePC I don't notice any slowdown, and on my thinkpad shutting
> down plasma takes longer than restarting X. So do we want to eventually
> use that for precise if it results in a less-buggy-by-default release?
> And if yes, when should we enable that? Now, to get more regression
> testing, or later to have a longer testing phase for the drivers?
>
> Philip
>
> [1] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/02/11/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t13:19
> [2] http://pad.lv/930614
> [3] http://pad.lv/651294

If you're talking to ossi about changes in our defaults, I think we should
also make the changes in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/641712 - it's a bad
bug and I don't know how else to fix it. I've been running with the 'work
around' in place for several releases with no trouble from it.

Scott K

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Old 02-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

On a somewhat unrelated note.
I have been talking to sreich some days ago and he suggested that ossi
doesn't have time to maintain KDM, so his qml port is also a bit on
hold and waiting for ldm to take off is perhaps the way to go. So we
probably should conduct some upstream discussion on where to go in the
future (i.e. perhaps get upstream to switch to ldm :P)

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Old 02-12-2012, 01:43 PM
Rafael Belmonte
 
Default KDM, buggy drivers and restarting X on logout

I experienced this bug many times with KDM, that is because I now am
using lightdm (ldm?), with it I haven't issues. How is the work for a
kde greeter for lightdm? I remember that there was a few work done by
someone.

2012/2/12 Harald Sitter <sitter.harald@gmail.com>:
> On a somewhat unrelated note.
> I have been talking to sreich some days ago and he suggested that ossi
> doesn't have time to maintain KDM, so his qml port is also a bit on
> hold and waiting for ldm to take off is perhaps the way to go. So we
> probably should conduct some upstream discussion on where to go in the
> future (i.e. perhaps get upstream to switch to ldm :P)
>
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