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Old 12-06-2011, 04:57 AM
Steve Stalcup
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On Dec 5, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:

> On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>>> None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative). These are other
>>> distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project. I think it's
>>> much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
>>> Ubuntu Server.
>>>
>>> I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
>>> is derivative correct.
>>
>> Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
>> to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or others
>> to change this. Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
>> section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
>> well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
>> Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
>> help with encouragement, inclusion and good will. It's like you
>> are beating up the messenger.
>>
>> We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
>> many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
>> call them. We were asking for your help and instead you complain
>> about the word. Seriously?
>
> Because I find the term offensive.
>
> I bring it up whenever I see it used. I even said that I recognized he
> was only using a term others use.
>
> Why should I not bring it up?
>
> It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion. If
> you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
> name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?
>
> Scott K

This is an insult, tbh [0]. But since when does Canonical care about any other flavor?

[0] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:12 AM
Amber Graner
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Steve Stalcup <stalcups@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>>>> None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative). *These are other
>>>> distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project. *I think it's
>>>> much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
>>>> Ubuntu Server.
>>>>
>>>> I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
>>>> is derivative correct.
>>>
>>> Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
>>> to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or others
>>> to change this. *Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
>>> section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
>>> well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
>>> Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
>>> help with encouragement, inclusion and good will. *It's like you
>>> are beating up the messenger.
>>>
>>> We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
>>> many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
>>> call them. *We were asking for your help and instead you complain
>>> about the word. *Seriously?
>>
>> Because I find the term offensive.
>>
>> I bring it up whenever I see it used. *I even said that I recognized he
>> was only using a term others use.
>>
>> Why should I not bring it up?
>>
>> It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion. *If
>> you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
>> name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?
>>
>> Scott K
>
> This is an insult, tbh [0]. *But since when does Canonical care about any other flavor?
>
> [0] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives

I am sorry you feel this way. I have CC'd Jono Bacon into this
conversation b/c we on UWN are community members who are just wanting
to bring the news to the masses. I can't speak for what Canonical
does or doesn't do and I don't want this thread to be about anything
other than what it was originally intended which was to ask for your
help in making sure we could bring the community news about each of
these distributions and make the community at large aware of the
various meetings etc.

Thanks for your understanding.

Cheers,
Amber



--
Amber Graner//akgraner//
http://akgraner.com/
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Just me Amber.

There are lots of Linux users who don't care how the kernel works, but
only want to use it. That is a tribute to how good Linux is.
Linus Torvalds

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Old 12-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On 12/06/2011 12:52 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>> On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>>>> None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative). These are other
>>>> distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project. I think it's
>>>> much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
>>>> Ubuntu Server.
>>>>
>>>> I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
>>>> is derivative correct.
>>>
>>> Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
>>> to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or others
>>> to change this. Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
>>> section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
>>> well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
>>> Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
>>> help with encouragement, inclusion and good will. It's like you
>>> are beating up the messenger.
>>>
>>> We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
>>> many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
>>> call them. We were asking for your help and instead you complain
>>> about the word. Seriously?
>>
>> Because I find the term offensive.
>>
>> I bring it up whenever I see it used. I even said that I recognized he
>> was only using a term others use.
>>
>> Why should I not bring it up?
>
>
> You're right you have the right to your opinion; however, its the tone
> of your email (just like this one) that comes across has hostile and
> confrontational. I apologize if misunderstood.
>>
>> It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion. If
>> you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
>> name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?
>
> Yes, but we don't make the names up, as you know. So there is no
> sense hashing that out here. :-) However, because you brought it up
> I will forward your issues onto Kate Stewart.
> Thanks for bringing to our attention.

I am hostile to the term as applied to Ubuntu flavors developed within
the Ubuntu project. I'm not hostile to any of the people involved in
the discussion. I'm sorry I communicated it in a way that felt hostile
to people.

Scott K


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Old 12-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On 12/06/2011 12:52 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>> On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
>>>> None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative). These are other
>>>> distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project. I think it's
>>>> much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
>>>> Ubuntu Server.
>>>>
>>>> I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
>>>> is derivative correct.
>>>
>>> Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
>>> to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or others
>>> to change this. Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
>>> section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
>>> well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
>>> Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
>>> help with encouragement, inclusion and good will. It's like you
>>> are beating up the messenger.
>>>
>>> We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
>>> many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
>>> call them. We were asking for your help and instead you complain
>>> about the word. Seriously?
>>
>> Because I find the term offensive.
>>
>> I bring it up whenever I see it used. I even said that I recognized he
>> was only using a term others use.
>>
>> Why should I not bring it up?
>
>
> You're right you have the right to your opinion; however, its the tone
> of your email (just like this one) that comes across has hostile and
> confrontational. I apologize if misunderstood.
>>
>> It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion. If
>> you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
>> name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?
>
> Yes, but we don't make the names up, as you know. So there is no
> sense hashing that out here. :-) However, because you brought it up
> I will forward your issues onto Kate Stewart.
> Thanks for bringing to our attention.

I am hostile to the term as applied to Ubuntu flavors developed within
the Ubuntu project. I'm not hostile to any of the people involved in
the discussion. I'm sorry I communicated it in a way that felt hostile
to people.

Scott K


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Old 12-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Chris <cyber.druif@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope this clears up some of the mess (originally created to ask for help
> on getting links to the meeting minutes).

I wouldn't expect too many weeks where you get a link from here. The
only times I can remember the Kubuntu Council meeting are once or
twice a cycle for voting on usually just one Kubuntu Membership at
each meeting, and one time they took a vote on whether to use the
Ubuntu font as the default font a few days before release. UDS seems
to be just about all the meeting that needs to be done to make Kubuntu
happen. Efficiency!

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Old 12-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Chris
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

That is perhaps because you discuss everything through the mailing-list (e.g. Firefox right now).
With metta, Chris

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 17:58, Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Chris <cyber.druif@gmail.com> wrote:



> I hope this clears up some of the mess (originally created to ask for help

> on getting links to the meeting minutes).



I wouldn't expect too many weeks where you get a link from here. The

only times I can remember the Kubuntu Council meeting are once or

twice a cycle for voting on usually just one Kubuntu Membership at

each meeting, and one time they took a vote on whether to use the

Ubuntu font as the default font a few days before release. UDS seems

to be just about all the meeting that needs to be done to make Kubuntu

happen. Efficiency!



--

Mackenzie Morgan



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Old 12-13-2011, 05:47 AM
Jono Bacon
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On 6 December 2011 06:37, Chris <cyber.druif@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hai Charlie (and the rest),
>
> I think something went wrong with your reply so I forwarded to everyone
> again.
> @Scott K: I think it's a problem with using a lot of terms side-by-side and
> mixing things up even. As you can see, the page [1] Ubuntu uses is called
> Derivatives. However on that same page the officially recognized once are
> suddenly called "flavor". In my humble opinion it's a more friendly term to
> use, but we should get some (dare I say it?) "Unity" in our naming scheme.
> It might have been my mistake, because the information [2] given by Kate
> apparently also talked about Flavors. But it's important everyone knows what
> the "correct" term is/should be.
>
> I hope this clears up some of the mess (originally created to ask for help
> on getting links to the meeting minutes).

I can see how there is some confusion here. I see them as:

* Favors - community development distributions based on Ubuntu, but
part of the Ubuntu project (e.g. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu).
* Derivatives - any other project based on Ubuntu but not part of the
Ubuntu project (e.g. Mint).

I think we should get some clarity on this and communicate this
outwards. Kate (CCed) - is this something can help with?

Jono


--
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Ubuntu Community Manager
www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon

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Old 12-13-2011, 05:47 AM
Jono Bacon
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

On 6 December 2011 06:37, Chris <cyber.druif@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hai Charlie (and the rest),
>
> I think something went wrong with your reply so I forwarded to everyone
> again.
> @Scott K: I think it's a problem with using a lot of terms side-by-side and
> mixing things up even. As you can see, the page [1] Ubuntu uses is called
> Derivatives. However on that same page the officially recognized once are
> suddenly called "flavor". In my humble opinion it's a more friendly term to
> use, but we should get some (dare I say it?) "Unity" in our naming scheme.
> It might have been my mistake, because the information [2] given by Kate
> apparently also talked about Flavors. But it's important everyone knows what
> the "correct" term is/should be.
>
> I hope this clears up some of the mess (originally created to ask for help
> on getting links to the meeting minutes).

I can see how there is some confusion here. I see them as:

* Favors - community development distributions based on Ubuntu, but
part of the Ubuntu project (e.g. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu).
* Derivatives - any other project based on Ubuntu but not part of the
Ubuntu project (e.g. Mint).

I think we should get some clarity on this and communicate this
outwards. Kate (CCed) - is this something can help with?

Jono


--
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Ubuntu Community Manager
www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon

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Old 12-19-2011, 11:57 AM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

Hi Chris!

(removed the other derivatives to avoid spammage)

On 11-12-06 04:35 AM, Chris wrote:
> I'd like to take this opportunity to tell everyone about the new section on
> the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter. It's a section devoted to the development of
> the official derivatives of Ubuntu. For this we'd like to receive every
> week that you have a meeting, a link to the summary of the meeting. This is
> all to more acknowledgement of the hard work everyone in the derivatives
> branches are doing.
> If there are any questions, please ask them here or on #ubuntu-news.
> akgraner and me (MrChrisDruif) should be around to answer your questions.

We're very eager about this. Currently we just have monthly meetings,
but I've been thinking that having weekly meetings again would be
beneficial.

Until we have weekly meeting logs, here's a few things off the top of my
head that we could perhaps do so long:
* Story with Alkis, who wrote the classroom management tool called
"Epoptis" that he uses in Greek schools
* Interview with Megavarnen, a person who distributes Edubuntu in
Malaysia like there's no tomorrow. He also sends more emails to the
edubuntu-webcontact address than we can read.
* A story about our collaboration and relationship with debian-edu.
Even though our progress is slow, it is steady and we do have some goals
that we are working towards together.

I was initially thinking of doing that on the Edubuntu blog. Are you ok
with reposting things that go up there?

-Jonathan

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