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Old 12-05-2011, 10:33 PM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Hi,
I think it's a good idea to have Firefox as default. In fact, it's the most
important FOSS web browser, one of the main project of this world. Everytime I
talk with a person about Kubuntu, one of the first thing I hear is "It's free
software? So it has Firefox!" And it's very hard to explain that yes, we are a
free open source software project but no, we don't ship Kubuntu with Firefox
preinstalled. Common people just can't undestand this thing.
I think we should stop this religious war between GNOME and KDE applications.
It's clear that KDE applications are better in many cases, but Firefox, Gimp,
and Inkscape are absolutely better than KDE's alternatives (I like Rekonquer,
but it looks like a toy if I think to Firefox).
The fact that Firefox does not use Kwallet is not a real problem: first of
all, it's not needed. The main part of users does not use a wallet or a keyring
for website password: the Firefox's password archive works just fine for them.
Plus, if your really can't live without KWallet, there's an addon. Sure we
can't promise that this plugin will be compatible with every new version of the
program, but as every FOSS project, it will depend from the real interest of
people.
I would also propose to distribute a version of Kubuntu with everything a
normal user can need (something like a "home edition"). I talking not only
about Firefox preinstalled, but also the flash plugin, all the main codecs, and
all the other non free software that a user need to have, in order to discover
all the beauty and easiness of Kubuntu. For the same reason, there are some
servicemenus I find very very useful (give a look at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.
com/idea/26778/).
Personally, I think the only way to encourage commons Windows/Mac users to
join Kubuntu is to make it just easier than other systems. And this means it
must have everything ready for the use.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: stars@hispeed.ch
>Data: 05/12/2011 23.06
>A: <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>Le Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:51:10 +0100,
>Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> On Monday 05 December 2011 21:45:30 Christian Mangold wrote:
>> > Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 21:41:44 schrieb Pali Rohár:
>> > > Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I
>> > > think this is needed for default browser.
>> >
>> > There is an extension for this:
>> > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content688
>> > 6
>> >
>> > Seems to be actively maintained.
>> >
>> > Chr.
>>
>> Problem is that this extension must be recompiled against actual
>> firefox and kde version - so everytime when updating kde/firefox
>> packages.
>>
>> And other problem, that it does not store to same location as
>> konqueror/rekonq. So we need program to convert konqueror/rekonq
>> passwords to firefox location.
>>
>
>Hi,
>
>The only problem i see with "Firefox non-default" is that a few
>applications don't reconize to open Url with it instead
>konqueror/rekonq when we have set as default browser in "system
>config".
>
>I find really important to to can storing passwords in KWallet, that's
>give us a better security that will be very important to do with
>Firefox by default....
>
>Maybe it will time to do something with Firefox devlopper to include it
>or make it easy to maintain...
>
>about: On 12/05/2011 03:37 PM, Felix Geyer wrote:
>> Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
>> USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
>> language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
>> dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
>> anyway [3].
>
>I think too that Kubuntu offer enough version proposed and so i agree
>with Scott K
>
>Best Regards
>
>Stars
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:54 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it> wrote:

>I think we should stop this religious war between GNOME and KDE
>applications.
>It's clear that KDE applications are better in many cases, but Firefox,
>Gimp,
>and Inkscape are absolutely better than KDE's alternatives (I like
>Rekonquer,
>but it looks like a toy if I think to Firefox).
>
In Kubuntu, it is not a religious war. We are trying to be a showcase for KDE. That is why there is a focus on providing KDE applications as the primary defaults in most cases , Libre Office being an exception.

I am am not against having Firefox as the default browser now that we may have enough space to play with. However, I feel we need to be careful not to dilute our KDE-ness when given the chance to use different applications as defaults. It is what makes Kubuntu Kubuntu.

Just a thought.


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Old 12-06-2011, 01:26 AM
Tres Finocchiaro
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Is google-chrome an option? (I mean the branded non-chromium one?)
If not, is chromium an option? *(Colors may go nice with KDE)
KDE has had a track record of delivering a stellar desktop. *Unfortunately I have never been happy with Konqueror or Rekonq for surfing the web, for reasons which I won't go into detail of and are likely shared throughout the mailing list.


-Tres

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Old 12-06-2011, 04:17 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 12/05/2011 09:26 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> Is google-chrome an option? (I mean the branded non-chromium one?)
>
> If not, is chromium an option? (Colors may go nice with KDE)
>
> KDE has had a track record of delivering a stellar desktop. Unfortunately
> I have never been happy with Konqueror or Rekonq for surfing the web, for
> reasons which I won't go into detail of and are likely shared throughout
> the mailing list.

Google Chrome (the branded one) is not an option because it's not free
software. Chromium is in Universe, but it would need to be promoted to
Main (and the Ubuntu Security team has expressed reluctance to do that
in the past). I think using Chromium would be very unlikely.

Scott K

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Old 12-06-2011, 06:44 AM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

It would be illegal? But, if it's true, why I can install the same non free
packages from aptitude? Wouldn't it be illegal too? I'm not talking about
adding other non free tools, just deliver Kubuntu with (preinstalled) the same
non-free programs you can find in aptitude.
I'm proposing to distribute a CD with only free software, and a DVD with all
the user can need (including non free software, GTK+, Firefox, servicemenus,
GIMP, Digikam, VLC, mscorefonts, etc...). The official release can be the only-
free-software CD, but there could be an option for all those people that want
to have everything ready.
For example, it could be also a good idea to put on the DVD the nvidia/ati
official drivers, so that it's easy to install them also on a computer without
internet connection. I don't know how works the rest of the world, but in Italy
we have many areas not covered by a fully working internet connection.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: macoafi@gmail.com
>Data: 06/12/2011 1.07
>A: "LucaTringali"<TRINGALINVENT@libero.it>, "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"
<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 6:33 PM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it> wrote:
>> I think we should stop this religious war between GNOME and KDE
applications.
>> It's clear that KDE applications are better in many cases, but Firefox,
Gimp,
>> and Inkscape are absolutely better than KDE's alternatives (I like
Rekonquer,
>> but it looks like a toy if I think to Firefox).
>
>Firefox is not made by GNOME. The real problem that keeps GTK apps
>(like Orca, the screenreader) off of Kubuntu when there's no Qt
>alternative is that there's no space to ship GTK.
>
>> I would also propose to distribute a version of Kubuntu with everything a
>> normal user can need (something like a "home edition"). I talking not only
>> about Firefox preinstalled, but also the flash plugin, all the main codecs,
and
>> all the other non free software that a user need to have, in order to
discover
>> all the beauty and easiness of Kubuntu.
>
>It'd be illegal (or at least legally questionable enough to open
>Kubuntu & Canonical to lawsuits) in some jurisdictions. We'd need to
>have an all-Free version available anywhere and then one full of the
>non-Free codecs and DVD support and whatnot that's only available in
>places that lack IP-treaties (or whatever they're called...there are
>countries that have made their IP laws match/work with the US's) with
>the US, probably using Geo-IP filtering.
>
>--
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>



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Old 12-06-2011, 04:48 PM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Ok, why we could not distribute a DVD iso with the warning "downloading this
file can be illegal in some countries, clicking on this button you declare that
it's not illegal in your country"?

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: macoafi@gmail.com
>Data: 06/12/2011 18.11
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Mark Fraser
><ubuntu@mfraz.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 06 Dec 2011 16:52:24 Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:44 AM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it>
>>> wrote:
>>> > It would be illegal? But, if it's true, why I can install the same non
>>> > free packages from aptitude? Wouldn't it be illegal too? I'm not talking
>>> > about adding other non free tools, just deliver Kubuntu with
>>> > (preinstalled) the same non-free programs you can find in aptitude.
>>>
>>> Does Kubuntu's package manager not pop up a legal warning like
>>> Ubuntu's does if you install the non-free and patented codecs? Ubuntu
>>> tells you that you might be on legally shaky ground and asks whether
>>> you're sure you want to continue when you install I think it was
>>> ubuntu-restricted-extras.
>>
>> Don't think I've ever seen one when installing kubuntu-restricted-extras,
>> but then I use apt-get to install packages.
>
>This is the pop-up Ubuntu gives:
>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/589741056_a84cb01a79.jpg
>
>It says:
>"Install unsupported and restricted software?
>The use, modification and distribution of Ubuntu restricted extras is
>restricted by copyright or by legal terms in some countries.
>You need a working internet connection to continue.
>[Cancel] [Install]"
>
>--
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>
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:53 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 12/06/2011 12:48 PM, LucaTringali wrote:
> Ok, why we could not distribute a DVD iso with the warning "downloading this
> file can be illegal in some countries, clicking on this button you declare that
> it's not illegal in your country"?

To use the example of Flash, it's not in an Ubuntu repository. Ubuntu
Multiverse has a Flash downloader that downloads it from Canonical's
Partner repository. Flash is not distributable, so it would not be
legal to mirror or copy an ISO that had the actual Flash executable on
it. The only reason it's available in Canonical's Partner repository is
because of a contract between Adobe and Canonical.

So it's not just a question of what's legal for the user to use, but
what's legal on Ubuntu mirrors.

Scott K

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:50 AM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

There are some Firefox extensions that integrate it very good into the KDE
desktop: for example https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/oxygen-kde/?
src=search or https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/konquefox/?
src=search. The integration in KDE is clearly not a problem: we could just
deliver firefox with those plugins already installed.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: pan.shizhu@gmail.com
>Data: 07/12/2011 4.01
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Felix Geyer <debfx@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.
>
>I second this.
>
>Firefox is always my default browser (On Win7, OSX and Kubuntu), it is
>good to have the same browser on all of my computers.
>
>Set Firefox to default make things better because it encourages
>Kubuntu developers to make better integration with Firefox/KDE.
>
>It would be even better to have Kwallet integration by default. I
>guess the version dependency is a non-issue if someone put kwallet
>integration package into main repository.
>
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:48 AM
Alex Fiestas
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 12/07/2011 08:50 AM, LucaTringali wrote:

There are some Firefox extensions that integrate it very good into the KDE
desktop: for example https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/oxygen-kde/?
src=search or https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/konquefox/?
src=search. The integration in KDE is clearly not a problem: we could just
deliver firefox with those plugins already installed.


Again, if Kubuntu can't maintain this plugins, they are not an option
and now less than ever with the new Firefox release system.


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Old 12-07-2011, 10:05 AM
Jussi Kekkonen
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 7 December 2011 11:48, Alex Fiestas <afiestas@kde.org> wrote:
> On 12/07/2011 08:50 AM, LucaTringali wrote:
>>
>> There are some Firefox extensions that integrate it very good into the KDE
>> desktop: for example
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/oxygen-kde/?
>> src=search or https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/konquefox/?
>> src=search. The integration in KDE is clearly not a problem: we could just
>> deliver firefox with those plugins already installed.
>
>
> Again, if Kubuntu can't maintain this plugins, they are not an option and
> now less than ever with the new Firefox release system.
>
>
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I would also point out that the idea of not having cd-sized images
would be suicide, cd is still the main mean to share Ubuntu and
Kubuntu out there.

--
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* Ubuntu/KDE developer* tmt@ubuntu.com

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