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Old 12-07-2011, 01:31 PM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

I proposed to mantain the CD version. Just deliver also a DVD version with
other useful programs already installed (if some of them are illegal, for
example the flash player, we won't deliver them). Distributing a DVD does not
prohibite us to continue delivering the CD. It would be just another option.
Talking about Firefox, I don't think it would be so difficult to mantain those
extensions: the actual programmers are doing a good job, we could talk with
them about their intentions about the future of those plugins.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: tmt@ubuntu.com
>Data: 07/12/2011 12.05
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: R: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On 7 December 2011 11:48, Alex Fiestas <afiestas@kde.org> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2011 08:50 AM, LucaTringali wrote:
>>>
>>> There are some Firefox extensions that integrate it very good into the KDE
>>> desktop: for example
>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/oxygen-kde/?
>>> src=search or https://addons.mozilla.org/it/firefox/addon/konquefox/?
>>> src=search. The integration in KDE is clearly not a problem: we could just
>>> deliver firefox with those plugins already installed.
>>
>>
>> Again, if Kubuntu can't maintain this plugins, they are not an option and
>> now less than ever with the new Firefox release system.
>>
>>
>> --
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>
>I would also point out that the idea of not having cd-sized images
>would be suicide, cd is still the main mean to share Ubuntu and
>Kubuntu out there.
>
>--
>Jussi Kekkonen, Tm_T
>* Ubuntu/KDE developer* tmt@ubuntu.com
>
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:36 AM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

LibreOffice is important: just think about an office or a school that wants to
use Kubuntu. They will need Calc, or Writer, or Impress... Calligra (the new
KOffice) is not only so good as LO, but it's also less famous: the common
Windows user that came to Kubuntu could be disoriented.
Rekonq has too many bugs and it does not support plugins, like Firefox. Users
that use to have, for example, DownloadHelper on their Firefox to download
youtube videos, can not do this with Rekonq or Chromium.

The reality is that the CD image is not enough. That's why I'm proposing to
deliver a CD image with just the needed (maybe already configured for old
computers: in fact, today, all the new computers have a DVD drive or can be
booted with a USB pen, and this makes the CD image unuseful for them).
Then release a fully functional Kubuntu version on DVD, with everything the
user can need ready (just legal things). Actually, Kubuntu is not so much more
than a normal Ubuntu with KDE. When the Unity project started I liked it
because meant that Ubuntu is not only a group of packagers, but it's also a
group of programmers that are going to improve the GNU/Linux desktop. We don't
need to rewrite KDE, but we need to adjust the little imperfections. For
example, the fact that Firefox is not well integrated into KDE: we should write
the needed extensions (actually they already exist, we just need to mantain
them).
The only thing that is continously criticized for KDE is that it misses the
"labor limae". I think Kubuntu should not simply package the KDE "as it is" but
we should improve the user experience with this little things.

An idea, for example, could be to add in the system settings, an automatic
procedure to install from internet the proprietary drivers-codecs-plugins (like
the flash player we were talking about, the Java-JRE, etc...).

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: pan.shizhu@gmail.com
>Data: 08/12/2011 8.33
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Rafael Belmonte <eaglescreen@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I think LibreOffice is very important also, and in my opinion Koffice
>> is not as good as LibreOffice
>
>The same statement also applies to Firefox vs Rekonq. (Firefox is very
>important, Rekonq is not as good as Firefox.)
>
>Then what's the point of Koffice and Rekonq? They are small in size,
>since all kde library dependencies are already installed.
>
>I still wonder how Ubuntu Unity version manages to install LibreOffice
>and Firefox and Thunderbird into one 700MB cd, can we do similiar
>things?
>
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:55 PM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Personally, I don't like religious wars between KDE/GTK software. The
"fragmentation" is one of the biggest problems, for me, of the FOSS world. This
means that wonderful forces are practically wasted creating three similar
programs working quite good, instead of creating only one that works very good.
Some KDE programs are wonderful, never found anything better. But some of them
are not really good: one of these is Rekonq. Using only KDE software on Kubuntu
means it will became a distribution for "nerds" (it is not intended in an
offensive way). I think that, if we want Kubuntu to be a real alternative for
proprietary systems, we need to help the users that actually use Windows or
MacOS to join our platform. The main way to do this is to let them use the
maximum possible number of programs they already use. Actually, Firefox is used
by the 40% of the total users, Rekonq by less then 1%. What does this tell to
you? Plus, remember that a Windows user or a MacOs user probably use Firefox,
but he sure does not use Rekonq. Having the same applications they used to work
with on GNU/Linux systems is the main request I get by the people I "drive" to
Kubuntu.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: debfx@ubuntu.com
>Data: 12/12/2011 19.30
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: [kubuntu-devel] RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>On 12.12.2011 17:55, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
>> With Firefox not shipping KDE integration the larger image option may
>> be less popular now. It might well come to a Kubuntu Council vote in
>> the end though.
>
>I had a quick chat with jdstrand about the security of rekonq and
>QtWebkit.
>There doesn't seem to be much security support from upstream
>and there hasn't been a single security update of QtWebkit in
>Ubuntu since rekonq is our default browser (maverick).
>So this is already a big problem and is going to get much worse with
>the LTS.
>I don't see how we can support a browser with QtWebkit for 5
>years since we basically already have failed to do so in past
>non-LTS releases.
>
>Even though Firefox will probably have a poor KDE integration
>again I think it's the only viable option.
>This however means that we shouldn't even ship rekonq on the
>CD. That's going to be a challenge since the current precise image
>is oversized and doesn't contain any language packs.
>As a last resort we could switch to a 750 MB image.
>
>Felix
>
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:26 PM
LucaTringali
 
Default R: RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Hello everybody,
just writing to tell you that, since I really care about this thing, I opened
a discussion on my blog:
http://letsfollowthewhiterabbit.blogspot.com/2011/12/kubuntu-should-not-use-
kde-only.html
Actually, the majority of comments are in favor of a Firefox integration in
Kubuntu, and a Firefox developer wrote that he would be happy to help us
integrate this browser into KDE.

Luca Tringali

>----Messaggio originale----
>Da: giupenni78@gmail.com
>Data: 13/12/2011 11.07
>A: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion"<kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
>Ogg: Re: Re: [kubuntu-devel] RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
>
>2011/12/13 pansz <pan.shizhu@gmail.com>:
>> Yes! Firefox is used by 40% of total users, which is way much more
>> than LibreOffice/OpenOffice users.
>>
>> There really isn't any reason not to ship Firefox by default when we
>> already have LibreOffice in the CD.
>>
>+10000
>LibreOffice has a poor integration with KDE but is installed by
>default because KOfficeCalligra is not ready. Ok, I can understand.
>
>Rekonq is not ready and the 90% of people not use it and install
>Firefox or Chrome but it is install by default. Firefox has a
>sufficient integration (via add-ons and oxygen-gtk engine) and is the
>first application that the users install but is not install by
>default. I can't understand.
>
>There must be a reason if Firefox by default is one of the main user
requests.
>
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