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-   -   RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image (http://www.linux-archive.org/kubuntu-development/606755-rfc-switch-firefox-1-5-gb-image.html)

Felix Geyer 12-05-2011 07:37 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
Hi,

I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.

We have discussed switching to a different browser more than once in
the past. I think the arguments against it were "let's give rekonq a
try and see how it evolves", "we prefer KDE applications" and "no
space on the CD image".
At the same time we provide a Firefox installer in the Kickoff menu.
Isn't that already a strong indication that we should really switch to
Firefox if possible? :-)

So here are my arguments why we should switch:

- I'm worried about the security support of rekonq + QtWebkit.
Firefox and Chromium regularly provide security updates while
there were none for QtWebkit. I find it hard to believe that
it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. In fact the security tracker [1]
lists many webkit CVEs.
- I think rekonq is not stable enough, i.e. it crashes too often.
- The browser is the most important application so we should provide
the best solution available for Kubuntu and not limit ourselves to
"KDE-native" applications.
- The Firefox KDE integration works very well now so we have KDE
file dialogs and correct file type associations.
- It should be obvious that Firefox has superior features. Just think
about bookmark and history syncing and the vast amount of extensions
available.

Some may prefer Chromium over Firefox but that isn't in the Ubuntu main
component so we'd have to convince the MIR team [2]/Canonical to
guarantee support for the package.

Firefox requires approximately 20 MB on images. This is too much
for our 700 MB CD image. Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
anyway [3].
We would still provide a CD image with rekonq and a very limited set
of languages (probably just one).

What are your opinions?

Felix


[1] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
[2] MIR approval team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir
[3] It contains the live CD image and an alternate image with all KDE
SC packages. Who seriously wants all those packages on his/her system?


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Pali Rohár 12-05-2011 07:41 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On Monday 05 December 2011 21:37:40 Felix Geyer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.
>
> We have discussed switching to a different browser more than once in
> the past. I think the arguments against it were "let's give rekonq a
> try and see how it evolves", "we prefer KDE applications" and "no
> space on the CD image".
> At the same time we provide a Firefox installer in the Kickoff menu.
> Isn't that already a strong indication that we should really switch to
> Firefox if possible? :-)
>
> So here are my arguments why we should switch:
>
> - I'm worried about the security support of rekonq + QtWebkit.
> Firefox and Chromium regularly provide security updates while
> there were none for QtWebkit. I find it hard to believe that
> it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. In fact the security tracker [1]
> lists many webkit CVEs.
> - I think rekonq is not stable enough, i.e. it crashes too often.
> - The browser is the most important application so we should provide
> the best solution available for Kubuntu and not limit ourselves to
> "KDE-native" applications.
> - The Firefox KDE integration works very well now so we have KDE
> file dialogs and correct file type associations.
> - It should be obvious that Firefox has superior features. Just think
> about bookmark and history syncing and the vast amount of extensions
> available.
>
> Some may prefer Chromium over Firefox but that isn't in the Ubuntu main
> component so we'd have to convince the MIR team [2]/Canonical to
> guarantee support for the package.
>
> Firefox requires approximately 20 MB on images. This is too much
> for our 700 MB CD image. Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
> USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
> language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
> dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
> anyway [3].
> We would still provide a CD image with rekonq and a very limited set
> of languages (probably just one).
>
> What are your opinions?
>
> Felix
>
>
> [1] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
> [2] MIR approval team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir
> [3] It contains the live CD image and an alternate image with all KDE
> SC packages. Who seriously wants all those packages on his/her system?

Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this is
needed for default browser.

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Christian Mangold 12-05-2011 07:45 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 21:41:44 schrieb Pali Rohár:

> Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this is
> needed for default browser.

There is an extension for this:
http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content=116886

Seems to be actively maintained.

Chr.

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Pali Rohár 12-05-2011 07:51 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On Monday 05 December 2011 21:45:30 Christian Mangold wrote:
> Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 21:41:44 schrieb Pali Rohár:
> > Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this
> > is needed for default browser.
>
> There is an extension for this:
> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content688
> 6
>
> Seems to be actively maintained.
>
> Chr.

Problem is that this extension must be recompiled against actual firefox and
kde version - so everytime when updating kde/firefox packages.

And other problem, that it does not store to same location as
konqueror/rekonq. So we need program to convert konqueror/rekonq passwords to
firefox location.

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Felix Geyer 12-05-2011 07:54 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On 05.12.2011 21:45, Christian Mangold wrote:
> Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 21:41:44 schrieb Pali Rohár:
>
>> Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this is
>> needed for default browser.

Not having KWallet integration is certainly a disadvantage but I disagree that
it is an absolute requirement.

> There is an extension for this:
> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content=116886
>
> Seems to be actively maintained.

Yes, though we can't install the extension by default because we can't guarantee
that it will work with future Firefox versions.

Felix


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Scott Kitterman 12-05-2011 07:58 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On 12/05/2011 03:37 PM, Felix Geyer wrote:
> Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
> USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
> language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
> dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
> anyway [3].

Do you propose that we would provide Live and alternate images in this
size? IIRC for oneiric we shipped:

Live CD
Alternate CD
DVD

CDs for i386, amd64, and powerpc (although power pc wasn't ultimately
released).

DVD was just i386 and amd64

armel had it's own pre-installed images.

We also had two metapackages: kubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-full

The traditional DVD is roughly twice as much QA (ISO testing) and the CD
images.

Are you proposing we do:

1.5 GB USB Live
1.5 GB USB Alternate
700 MB CD Live
700 MB CD Alternate

We'd need to figure out what to do with kubuntu-full. Addition of a
larger metapackage seemed to be a popular feature. Perhaps it should
move to Universe to it can include digikam and not be tied to an image
at all.

Scott K

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Ingo Ratsdorf 12-05-2011 08:10 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
----------------Original message-----------------
From: "Pali Rohár"
To: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion" kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:41:44 +0100
-------------------------------------------------


> On Monday 05 December 2011 21:37:40 Felix Geyer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.
> Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this is
> needed for default browser.

Firstly I cannot imagine a reason why a browser MUST store passwords in KWallet, secondly there is an addon that does exactly that.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/kde-wallet-password-integratio/

Regards,
Ingo


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Pali Rohár 12-05-2011 08:15 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 10:10:28 Ingo Ratsdorf wrote:
> ----------------Original message-----------------
> From: "Pali Rohár"
> To: "Kubuntu Developer Discussion" kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:41:44 +0100
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> > On Monday 05 December 2011 21:37:40 Felix Geyer wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.
> >
> > Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I think this
> > is needed for default browser.
>
> Firstly I cannot imagine a reason why a browser MUST store passwords in
> KWallet, secondly there is an addon that does exactly that.
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/kde-wallet-password-integrat
> io/
>
> Regards,
> Ingo

All KDE applications use KWallet, because it is one place for all passwords.
KWallet by default has master password (filled when storing first password),
firefox not.

And also reason, that when users will upgrade to new Kubuntu version, it
should migrate all settings like bookmarks & passwords.

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Felix Geyer 12-05-2011 08:33 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
On 05.12.2011 21:58, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> Are you proposing we do:
>
> 1.5 GB USB Live
> 1.5 GB USB Alternate
> 700 MB CD Live
> 700 MB CD Alternate
>
> We'd need to figure out what to do with kubuntu-full. Addition of a
> larger metapackage seemed to be a popular feature. Perhaps it should
> move to Universe to it can include digikam and not be tied to an image
> at all.

Either that or dropping the 700 MB alternate image given that
we always have trouble finding image testers.

Are you sure that kubuntu-full is popular?
At least it's not very well maintained. Until now it pulled in fglrx and
nvidida-current which seems to break OpenGL if you don't have the
right graphics card.
Anyway, we could move it to meta-kde, make it depend on kde-full and
add the extra packages as dependencies/recommends.

Felix

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Rafael Belmonte 12-05-2011 08:33 PM

RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image
 
Moving to Firefox is not a bad idea for me.
Rekonq crash often, and, in my expecience, Kwallet is not very used by
common users, so there will be very few users who will miss Kwallet
integration.
Nowadays very few users are still burningg 700MB CDs, they usually
create a Live USB-stick, so 1.5GB image sounds reasonable for me.
Could it be a 1GB image to can be copied to 1GB drives?

2011/12/5 Felix Geyer <debfx@ubuntu.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.
>
> We have discussed switching to a different browser more than once in
> the past. I think the arguments against it were "let's give rekonq a
> try and see how it evolves", "we prefer KDE applications" and "no
> space on the CD image".
> At the same time we provide a Firefox installer in the Kickoff menu.
> Isn't that already a strong indication that we should really switch to
> Firefox if possible? :-)
>
> So here are my arguments why we should switch:
>
> - I'm worried about the security support of rekonq + QtWebkit.
> *Firefox and Chromium regularly provide security updates while
> *there were none for QtWebkit. I find it hard to believe that
> *it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. In fact the security tracker [1]
> *lists many webkit CVEs.
> - I think rekonq is not stable enough, i.e. it crashes too often.
> - The browser is the most important application so we should provide
> *the best solution available for Kubuntu and not limit ourselves to
> *"KDE-native" applications.
> - The Firefox KDE integration works very well now so we have KDE
> *file dialogs and correct file type associations.
> - It should be obvious that Firefox has superior features. Just think
> *about bookmark and history syncing and the vast amount of extensions
> *available.
>
> Some may prefer Chromium over Firefox but that isn't in the Ubuntu main
> component so we'd have to convince the MIR team [2]/Canonical to
> guarantee support for the package.
>
> Firefox requires approximately 20 MB on images. This is too much
> for our 700 MB CD image. Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
> USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
> language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
> dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
> anyway [3].
> We would still provide a CD image with rekonq and a very limited set
> of languages (probably just one).
>
> What are your opinions?
>
> Felix
>
>
> [1] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
> [2] MIR approval team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir
> [3] It contains the live CD image and an alternate image with all KDE
> * *SC packages. Who seriously wants all those packages on his/her system?
>
>
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> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel

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