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Old 12-05-2011, 08:35 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 12/05/2011 04:33 PM, Felix Geyer wrote:
> On 05.12.2011 21:58, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> Are you proposing we do:
>>
>> 1.5 GB USB Live
>> 1.5 GB USB Alternate
>> 700 MB CD Live
>> 700 MB CD Alternate
>>
>> We'd need to figure out what to do with kubuntu-full. Addition of a
>> larger metapackage seemed to be a popular feature. Perhaps it should
>> move to Universe to it can include digikam and not be tied to an image
>> at all.
>
> Either that or dropping the 700 MB alternate image given that
> we always have trouble finding image testers.
>
> Are you sure that kubuntu-full is popular?
> At least it's not very well maintained. Until now it pulled in fglrx and
> nvidida-current which seems to break OpenGL if you don't have the
> right graphics card.
> Anyway, we could move it to meta-kde, make it depend on kde-full and
> add the extra packages as dependencies/recommends.

Both those (dropping the alternate and moving it to meta-kde) sound
good. I don't know if it's popular, but I saw it mentioned favorably in
reviews.

Scott K


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Old 12-05-2011, 08:49 PM
Felix Geyer
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On 05.12.2011 22:15, Pali Rohár wrote:
> And also reason, that when users will upgrade to new Kubuntu version, it
> should migrate all settings like bookmarks & passwords.

When upgrading Kubuntu you'd have both browser installed so you
can of course just continue to use rekonq.

Felix


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Old 12-05-2011, 09:06 PM
stars
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Le Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:51:10 +0100,
Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> a écrit :

> On Monday 05 December 2011 21:45:30 Christian Mangold wrote:
> > Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 21:41:44 schrieb Pali Rohár:
> > > Firefox does not support storing passwords in KWallet. And I
> > > think this is needed for default browser.
> >
> > There is an extension for this:
> > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Firefox+addon+for+kwallet?content688
> > 6
> >
> > Seems to be actively maintained.
> >
> > Chr.
>
> Problem is that this extension must be recompiled against actual
> firefox and kde version - so everytime when updating kde/firefox
> packages.
>
> And other problem, that it does not store to same location as
> konqueror/rekonq. So we need program to convert konqueror/rekonq
> passwords to firefox location.
>

Hi,

The only problem i see with "Firefox non-default" is that a few
applications don't reconize to open Url with it instead
konqueror/rekonq when we have set as default browser in "system
config".

I find really important to to can storing passwords in KWallet, that's
give us a better security that will be very important to do with
Firefox by default....

Maybe it will time to do something with Firefox devlopper to include it
or make it easy to maintain...

about: On 12/05/2011 03:37 PM, Felix Geyer wrote:
> Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB
> USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more
> language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means
> dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use
> anyway [3].

I think too that Kubuntu offer enough version proposed and so i agree
with Scott K

Best Regards

Stars
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Dale Trombley
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

+1
how much space would be saved by NOT including rekonq on the cd?* would we get the space needed back to keep the 700mb max size? I am absolutely in favor of this, rekonq has been a dismal disappointment.*



On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Felix Geyer <debfx@ubuntu.com> wrote:

Hi,



I'd like to propose switching to Firefox as our default browser.



We have discussed switching to a different browser more than once in

the past. I think the arguments against it were "let's give rekonq a

try and see how it evolves", "we prefer KDE applications" and "no

space on the CD image".

At the same time we provide a Firefox installer in the Kickoff menu.

Isn't that already a strong indication that we should really switch to

Firefox if possible? :-)



So here are my arguments why we should switch:



- I'm worried about the security support of rekonq + QtWebkit.

*Firefox and Chromium regularly provide security updates while

*there were none for QtWebkit. I find it hard to believe that

*it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. In fact the security tracker [1]

*lists many webkit CVEs.

- I think rekonq is not stable enough, i.e. it crashes too often.

- The browser is the most important application so we should provide

*the best solution available for Kubuntu and not limit ourselves to

*"KDE-native" applications.

- The Firefox KDE integration works very well now so we have KDE

*file dialogs and correct file type associations.

- It should be obvious that Firefox has superior features. Just think

*about bookmark and history syncing and the vast amount of extensions

*available.



Some may prefer Chromium over Firefox but that isn't in the Ubuntu main

component so we'd have to convince the MIR team [2]/Canonical to

guarantee support for the package.



Firefox requires approximately 20 MB on images. This is too much

for our 700 MB CD image. Thus I propose that we switch to a 1.5 GB

USB/DVD image that includes everything on the CD + Firefox + more

language packs + maybe a few more applications. This also means

dropping our current DVD image which is imho of very limited use

anyway [3].

We would still provide a CD image with rekonq and a very limited set

of languages (probably just one).



What are your opinions?



Felix





[1] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html

[2] MIR approval team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir

[3] It contains the live CD image and an alternate image with all KDE

* *SC packages. Who seriously wants all those packages on his/her system?





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Old 12-05-2011, 11:07 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 6:33 PM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it> wrote:
> I think we should stop this religious war between GNOME and KDE applications.
> It's clear that KDE applications are better in many cases, but Firefox, Gimp,
> and Inkscape are absolutely better than KDE's alternatives (I like Rekonquer,
> but it looks like a toy if I think to Firefox).

Firefox is not made by GNOME. The real problem that keeps GTK apps
(like Orca, the screenreader) off of Kubuntu when there's no Qt
alternative is that there's no space to ship GTK.

> I would also propose to distribute a version of Kubuntu with everything a
> normal user can need (something like a "home edition"). I talking not only
> about Firefox preinstalled, but also the flash plugin, all the main codecs, and
> all the other non free software that a user need to have, in order to discover
> all the beauty and easiness of Kubuntu.

It'd be illegal (or at least legally questionable enough to open
Kubuntu & Canonical to lawsuits) in some jurisdictions. We'd need to
have an all-Free version available anywhere and then one full of the
non-Free codecs and DVD support and whatnot that's only available in
places that lack IP-treaties (or whatever they're called...there are
countries that have made their IP laws match/work with the US's) with
the US, probably using Geo-IP filtering.

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Old 12-06-2011, 03:08 PM
Alex Fiestas
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

Well Firefox fails in many places imho, form the KDE experience point of
view:


-KWallet is not integrated, extension is not an option.
A few years ago I made a livecd that would mount your home and steal
all your firefox data, why I was able to do this? because Firefox by
default has a keyring of passwords with a generated key stored within
the profile, meaning that everybody with the needed knowledge can access
it resulting in a 0% effective way of storing passwords.


-It does not use XDG
So we have a good standard called XDG which cover a few things,
between them default applications. All Mozilla products use their own
system so for example right now, Thunderbird in my system tries to open
pdf with gimp.


-Open dialogs, we have a modification but, can we support it?
I know that OpenSuse has a modified Firefox build but my question
is, can we support it? do we have the knowledge to support that modified
version?


I can put more of these "small" things.

If Kubuntu decides to ship a modified version of Firefox (extensions in
Firefox modify Firefox itself), can we support it? can we be sure that
if Ubuntu decides to update to Firefox 12-13-14-15 we will be able to
port the extensions quickly enough?


Imho Kubuntu should be careful with these kind of things, if you ship
with patched or modified software is ok as long as you can support it if
not it can backfire.


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Old 12-06-2011, 03:52 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:44 AM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it> wrote:
> It would be illegal? But, if it's true, why I can install the same non free
> packages from aptitude? Wouldn't it be illegal too? I'm not talking about
> adding other non free tools, just deliver Kubuntu with (preinstalled) the same
> non-free programs you can find in aptitude.

Does Kubuntu's package manager not pop up a legal warning like
Ubuntu's does if you install the non-free and patented codecs? Ubuntu
tells you that you might be on legally shaky ground and asks whether
you're sure you want to continue when you install I think it was
ubuntu-restricted-extras.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Mark Fraser
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On Tuesday 06 Dec 2011 16:52:24 Mackenzie Morgan wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:44 AM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it> wrote:

> > It would be illegal? But, if it's true, why I can install the same non

> > free packages from aptitude? Wouldn't it be illegal too? I'm not talking

> > about adding other non free tools, just deliver Kubuntu with

> > (preinstalled) the same non-free programs you can find in aptitude.

>

> Does Kubuntu's package manager not pop up a legal warning like

> Ubuntu's does if you install the non-free and patented codecs? Ubuntu

> tells you that you might be on legally shaky ground and asks whether

> you're sure you want to continue when you install I think it was

> ubuntu-restricted-extras.

*

Don't think I've ever seen one when installing kubuntu-restricted-extras, but then I use apt-get to install packages.

*

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Old 12-06-2011, 04:11 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Mark Fraser
<ubuntu@mfraz.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tuesday 06 Dec 2011 16:52:24 Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:44 AM, LucaTringali <TRINGALINVENT@libero.it>
>> wrote:
>> > It would be illegal? But, if it's true, why I can install the same non
>> > free packages from aptitude? Wouldn't it be illegal too? I'm not talking
>> > about adding other non free tools, just deliver Kubuntu with
>> > (preinstalled) the same non-free programs you can find in aptitude.
>>
>> Does Kubuntu's package manager not pop up a legal warning like
>> Ubuntu's does if you install the non-free and patented codecs? Ubuntu
>> tells you that you might be on legally shaky ground and asks whether
>> you're sure you want to continue when you install I think it was
>> ubuntu-restricted-extras.
>
> Don't think I've ever seen one when installing kubuntu-restricted-extras,
> but then I use apt-get to install packages.

This is the pop-up Ubuntu gives:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/589741056_a84cb01a79.jpg

It says:
"Install unsupported and restricted software?
The use, modification and distribution of Ubuntu restricted extras is
restricted by copyright or by legal terms in some countries.
You need a working internet connection to continue.
[Cancel] [Install]"

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Old 12-06-2011, 05:54 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default RFC: Switch to Firefox and a 1.5 GB image

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Alex Fiestas <afiestas@kde.org> wrote:
> -It does not use XDG
> * So we have a good standard called XDG which cover a few things, between
> them default applications. All Mozilla products use their own system so for
> example right now, Thunderbird in my system tries to open pdf with gimp.

That's not unique to Thunderbird. It's a bug in mime type handling
that affects all of the Ubuntu desktop.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+bug/574342

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