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Old 05-17-2011, 11:06 PM
David Edmundson
 
Default LightDM-KDE

Hey all,
I stumbled upon your blueprint plans for use of LightDM in Kubuntu 11.10, and as the person who has written most of LightDM-qt so far I wanted to add some opinions and an update on where the lib is.

Firstly if you're going to discuss LightMD, it would have been nice to have been notified.*There's so much I intend to get done with it,*but I've been really busy trying to get KDE Telepathy out. It's all already consuming far more time than I really should let it.

Anyway. What's the current state and what needs to be done:
Robert Ancell (the main LightDM guy) has been refactoring the backend, which has led to some changes in the Qt lib which I'm not 100% happy with. Instead of just jumping on dbus, we now have a lot of GTK lib copying+pasting with a thin Qt wrapper in the main class of the greeter. At a minimum I want this moved out to a*separate private*class to give a very clean maintainable header to the*publicly*exposed main lib. Ideally we'd want someone like George Kiagiadis involved who is extremely pro at auto-building Qt bindings for GTK and get a library that isn't going to fall apart as soon as the GTK version updates.*

I have a far better demo greeter on kde's git repo than the one in bzr repo. I'll try and merge that.
I want to give it a really significant refactor that switches the lists of LdmSessions, LdmUsers, and Langauges to be Qt models. *I also want to expose the power management parts as Q_PROPERTIES.**I did start this a while ago, it's not finished but if I worked on it, I could get it done.*This not only makes GUI's quite a bit quicker to build, but will make plasma bindings very easy.

It was started by me a year ago, and I wasn't as familiar with KDE standards/lib consistency as I am now. It's not bad, but it's far from perfect.*I would really appreciate it if you could give me a month to completely tidy up all the crap up to make it decent ABI stable code.

As for plasma:With my LibLightDm-Qt hat on, I will absolutely support everything you do and will do anything I can to make the library really easy for you to use, let me know and I'll do what I can to update the lib.

With my generic developer hat on, using plasma is an ill-thought through idea. To me it seems you've jumped to the solution before you've worked out what problems you're trying to solve are. I also believe it's a security risk, will lead to slow load times and potentially unstable login screens. I think it will lead to a lot of future problems. I have an alternate (pure QML-oriented) scheme in mind that allows for greater*flexibility/theming*with a sensible KCM that I think is pretty solid. However I'm not one for arguments, and LightDM does allow for multiple greeters (both built off the same greeter lib) really easily so we can easily do our own thing.

Regards
David Edmundson*

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:24 PM
"Alex Fiestas"
 
Default LightDM-KDE

On Wed, 18 May 2011 01:06:47 +0200, David Edmundson
<david@davidedmundson.co.uk> wrote:


Firstly if you're going to discuss LightMD, it would have been nice to
have

been notified.

Well, in the UDS formats, seasons are schedules from one day to the other,
when we proposed the idea of debate about lightDM we didn't know you where
involved in any way (in fact, we notice it today).


Instead
of just jumping on dbus, we now have a lot of GTK lib copying+pasting
with a

thin Qt wrapper in the main class of the greeter.


Well, if lightDM is becoming in something not that "cross-desktop" then
maybe is not what we though it was... :/ maybe you can me Roberto change
it's mind?


Thanks for all the work and the interest!

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:26 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default LightDM-KDE

Hi David,

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 1:06 AM, David Edmundson
<david@davidedmundson.co.uk> wrote:
> I stumbled upon your blueprint plans for use of LightDM in Kubuntu 11.10,
> and as the person who has written most of LightDM-qt so far I wanted to add
> some opinions and an update on where the lib is.
> Firstly if you're going to discuss LightMD, it would have been nice to have
> been notified.

We did not even know you were working on it (well, at least I did not
). The plan itself is to carry the whole discussion and
implementation upstream to KDE, and see if KDM is a lost cause and if
it is whether people are in favor of going with LightDM. At least then
you would have known of the discussion I assume. At any rate not
inviting you to the UDS discussion was by no means intentional.

> There's so much I intend to get done with it,*but I've been really busy
> trying to get KDE Telepathy out. It's all already consuming far more time
> than I really should let it.
> Anyway. What's the current state and what needs to be done:
> Robert Ancell (the main LightDM guy) has been refactoring the backend, which
> has led to some changes in the Qt lib which I'm not 100% happy with. Instead
> of just jumping on dbus, we now have a lot of GTK lib copying+pasting with a
> thin Qt wrapper in the main class of the greeter. At a minimum I want this
> moved out to a*separate private*class to give a very clean maintainable
> header to the*publicly*exposed main lib. Ideally we'd want someone like
> George Kiagiadis involved who is extremely pro at auto-building Qt bindings
> for GTK and get a library that isn't going to fall apart as soon as the GTK
> version updates.

Selling a GTK+ dependency to people will be *very* difficult, so I
think DBus is the better choice really.

> I have a far better demo greeter on kde's git repo than the one in bzr repo.
> I'll try and merge that.
> I want to give it a really significant refactor that switches the lists of
> LdmSessions, LdmUsers, and Langauges to be Qt models. *I also want to expose
> the power management parts as Q_PROPERTIES.**I did start this a while ago,
> it's not finished but if I worked on it, I could get it done.*This not only
> makes GUI's quite a bit quicker to build, but will make plasma bindings very
> easy.

Also necessary for QML, so definitely worth the effort.

> It was started by me a year ago, and I wasn't as familiar with KDE
> standards/lib consistency as I am now. It's not bad, but it's far from
> perfect.*I would really appreciate it if you could give me a month to
> completely tidy up all the crap up to make it decent ABI stable code.
> As for plasma:
> With my LibLightDm-Qt hat on, I will absolutely support everything you do
> and will do anything I can to make the library really easy for you to use,
> let me know and I'll do what I can to update the lib.
> With my generic developer hat on, using plasma is an ill-thought through
> idea. To me it seems you've jumped to the solution before you've worked out
> what problems you're trying to solve are. I also believe it's a security
> risk, will lead to slow load times and potentially unstable login screens. I
> think it will lead to a lot of future problems. I have an alternate (pure
> QML-oriented) scheme in mind that allows for
> greater*flexibility/theming*with a sensible KCM that I think is pretty
> solid. However I'm not one for arguments, and LightDM does allow for
> multiple greeters (both built off the same greeter lib) really easily so we
> can easily do our own thing.

There were no particular decision set in stone about using Plasma.
Just seemed like an obvious choice. I must say having a QML greeter is
certainly intriguing too, especially since I understand Canonical
wants to invest in a Qt greeter anyway, so we could share resources
there.

BTW, you can listen to the session at [1]

[1] http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-o/2011-05-13-12-55-desktop-o-kubuntu-lightdm.ogg

regards,
Harald

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