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Old 10-08-2010, 10:44 PM
Valter Mura
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

Hi All,

I suppose it is not the time to write down here this notes, and probably this
could be matter of discussion for a new translation plan, if any. And how
useful they are.

I tried the Kubuntu Maverick 10.10 CD live and i found that the Italian
interface and guide still have problems with translations.

Some parts of the System Settings subdialogs are still in English and the
Kubuntu System Doc, also.

Kubuntu System Doc is translated, AFAIK, because I have translated them. Why
are translation not inserted?

Is it necessary to open a bug for that or not?

Interface:

I suppose this gap is due to the different KDE upstream branch Launchpad takes
the po files from.
Because KDE splits between stable and trunk (and several of them are still in
playground), and Kubuntu uses apps from both of them (e.g., read
"Kpackagekit", it's 2 years I cannot obtain get its complete translation, even
if I'm always translating it), it is very difficult to get a complete
translation.
The other reason is, obviously, the difference between release dates :-)

So I wonder: is it possible to have a system that warns the Ubuntu approved
translators when a po file change?
Better if an user, with a number of po files subscriptions, could receive a
sort of "digest" of the changes to his/her email address.

Another question: is it possible to have the source indication for files that
have been picked upstream? This will facilitate enormously some our tasks,
such as going to see if a file is only Launchpad-related or also, in our case,
KDE-related.

Thanks for the attention, ciao
--
Valter
Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org
OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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Old 10-09-2010, 12:02 AM
Alessandro Ghersi
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

On Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:44:13 am Valter Mura wrote:
> I tried the Kubuntu Maverick 10.10 CD live and i found that the Italian
> interface and guide still have problems with translations.
>
> Some parts of the System Settings subdialogs are still in English and the
> Kubuntu System Doc, also.

Running Kubuntu in Italian the system doc is not translated, you're right, but
which are the subdialogs that you're talking? Here they are all translated, it
seems, except for Kubuntu notification helper and there is a bug open in LP:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-
helper/+bug/633514

Anyway, I suggest (if it's possible) to move our translations into KDE
repository to don't let Launchpad breaks anymore our translation.
Get rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be a thing to put into the
list of possible discussion at UDS.

--
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Kubuntu Developer
https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi

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Old 10-09-2010, 03:23 AM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

On Friday, October 08, 2010 08:02:07 pm Alessandro Ghersi wrote:
> Anyway, I suggest (if it's possible) to move our translations into KDE
> repository to don't let Launchpad breaks anymore our translation.
> Get rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be a thing to put into
> the list of possible discussion at UDS.

I thought that WAS what KUbuntu did for translations. Anything KDE, they take
the upstream ones, and only use LP for Kubuntu-specific stuff.

--
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:23 AM
Valter Mura
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

In data sabato 9 ottobre 2010 02:02:07, Alessandro Ghersi ha scritto:

> On Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:44:13 am Valter Mura wrote:
> > I tried the Kubuntu Maverick 10.10 CD live and i found that the Italian
> > interface and guide still have problems with translations.
> >
> > Some parts of the System Settings subdialogs are still in English and the
> > Kubuntu System Doc, also.
>
> Running Kubuntu in Italian the system doc is not translated, you're right,
> but which are the subdialogs that you're talking? Here they are all
> translated, it seems, except for Kubuntu notification helper and there is
> a bug open in LP:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-
> helper/+bug/633514

Well, I see, running it through the CD live, _at least_ the following
untranslated parts (generally partially translated tabs, some more, some
less):

(these are under System Settings)

- kapackagekit
- kcm locale
- knotify
- component selection
- bluetooth devices
- network connections
- user management
- printer config > options tab
- device actions in Solid Editor (in Solid, the description of the action)

More:
- OpenOffice.org (all packages, but I suspect that, once everything installed,
there will hopefully the localzed version or an easy way the install it,
_speaking from a normal user point of view_)

Docs (inside the help system):

- Kubuntu System Docs
- The Plasma Handbook (translated and contained in KDE stable branch)

>
> Anyway, I suggest (if it's possible) to move our translations into KDE
> repository to don't let Launchpad breaks anymore our translation.
> Get rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be a thing to put into
> the list of possible discussion at UDS.

This is a good idea, I agree.
I have to mention the big work made by Jonathan, setting up the Kubuntu
Translation Wiki Page, which helped us very much.

Ciao
--
Valter
Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
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OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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Old 10-09-2010, 04:25 PM
Alessandro Ghersi
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

In data sabato, ottobre 09, 2010 09:23:34 AM, Valter Mura ha scritto:
> Well, I see, running it through the CD live, at least the following
> untranslated parts (generally partially translated tabs, some more, some
> less):
>
> (these are under System Settings)
>
> - kapackagekit
It's translated here
> - kcm locale
It's translated here
> - knotify
It's translated here, except for kubuntu-notification-helper
> - component selection
It's translated here
> - bluetooth devices
Right, it's NOT translated
> - network connections
It's translated here
> - user management
It's translated here, except for some strings in Groups tab
> - printer config > options tab
Right, it's NOT translated
> - device actions in Solid Editor (in Solid, the description of the action)
Right, it's NOT translated
>
> More:
> - OpenOffice.org (all packages, but I suspect that, once everything
> installed, there will hopefully the localzed version or an easy way the
> install it, _speaking from a normal user point of view_)
>
> Docs (inside the help system):
>
> - Kubuntu System Docs
Right, it's NOT translated
> - The Plasma Handbook (translated and contained in KDE stable branch)
It's translated

But I'm not running live CD, I'm running Maverick installed.


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Old 10-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Valter Mura
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

In data sabato 9 ottobre 2010 18:25:23, Alessandro Ghersi ha scritto:

> > (these are under System Settings)
> >
> > - kapackagekit
>
> It's translated here

Is it completely translated?

--cut--

> > - knotify
>
> It's translated here, except for kubuntu-notification-helper

--cut--

> > - bluetooth devices
>
> Right, it's NOT translated
>
--cut--
> > - user management
>
> It's translated here, except for some strings in Groups tab
>
> > - printer config > options tab
>
> Right, it's NOT translated
>
> > - device actions in Solid Editor (in Solid, the description of the
> > action)
>
> Right, it's NOT translated
>
> > More:
> > - OpenOffice.org (all packages, but I suspect that, once everything
> > installed, there will hopefully the localzed version or an easy way the
> > install it, _speaking from a normal user point of view_)
> >
> > Docs (inside the help system):
> >
> > - Kubuntu System Docs
>
> Right, it's NOT translated
>
--cut--
>
> But I'm not running live CD, I'm running Maverick installed.

Thank you very Alessandro for the quick feedback.

So, I suppose some Italian strings "appears" after normal installation, due to
probably an online update...

But the problems above mentioned still remain, so we need to find a solution
for the next release.
I know there will be updates after the release, but the goal for the release,
these are my/our intention (I think I could speak also for the Ubuntu Italian
Team, in cc) is to "release" a product *fully* translated, because it is
targeted to Italian users, some of whom, sometimes (often?), have difficult
with/don't know foreign languages.

I also opened a "question" in Launchpad, I don't know it will be useful:

https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/128533

Best regards,
--
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Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org
OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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Old 10-09-2010, 07:21 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

On Friday, October 08, 2010 11:23:18 pm Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
> On Friday, October 08, 2010 08:02:07 pm Alessandro Ghersi wrote:
> > Anyway, I suggest (if it's possible) to move our translations into KDE
> > repository to don't let Launchpad breaks anymore our translation.
> > Get rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be a thing to put
> > into the list of possible discussion at UDS.
>
> I thought that WAS what KUbuntu did for translations. Anything KDE, they
> take the upstream ones, and only use LP for Kubuntu-specific stuff.

They still get loaded stripped and uploaded into language packs with
opportunities along the way for LP translators and infrastructure to "improve"
the situation.

We've repeatedly asked for existing KDE translations to be locked so that the
only thing Ubuntu translators can do is provide missing strings. It's not a
priority apparently.

I still support that we not import core KDE translations into Rosetta and just
use the upstream translations directly. I think it would both provide better
translations for users and be less work for developers.

Scott K

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Old 10-11-2010, 09:32 PM
Jonathan Riddell
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

On Sat, Oct 09, 2010 at 06:25:23PM +0200, Alessandro Ghersi wrote:
> > - bluetooth devices
> Right, it's NOT translated

Bug from upstream, fix in progress

https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluedevil/+bug/658728

> > - user management
> It's translated here, except for some strings in Groups tab

many strings are missing from the userconfig.po template file. they
don't get extracted by extract-messages, running the commands in
Messages.sh by hand works fine. a mystery
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/userconfig/+bug/658741

> > - printer config > options tab
> Right, it's NOT translated

Upstream bug (but I'm the upstream so not much of an excuse)
These strings come from PPD files I think so it's not entirely staight
forward
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253892

> > - device actions in Solid Editor (in Solid, the description of the action)
> Right, it's NOT translated

Pesky translation stripping
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+bug/658713
> > Docs (inside the help system):
> >
> > - Kubuntu System Docs
> Right, it's NOT translated

These need to be extracted from launchpad and packaged by hand.
anyone who knows how to do this is most welcome to help or show me
how.

Jonathan

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Old 10-14-2010, 12:33 PM
David Planella
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

El ds 09 de 10 de 2010 a les 00:44 +0200, en/na Valter Mura va
escriure:
> Hi All,
>
> I suppose it is not the time to write down here this notes, and probably this
> could be matter of discussion for a new translation plan, if any. And how
> useful they are.
>

Hi Valter,

Thanks a lot for the testing and the feedback on Kubuntu translations.
I'll try to answer your questions and others on this thread.

I see you've already been doing it in the last replies, but in general
I'd suggest always keeping the ubuntu-translators mailing list on the
loop, and include it on CC to any translations-related topics. This way
anyone in the translations community can answer the questions.

For issues in a particular language, I'd also recommend to check first
with the particular translation team, in this case the Italian Ubuntu
Translators:

https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-it

> I tried the Kubuntu Maverick 10.10 CD live and i found that the Italian
> interface and guide still have problems with translations.
>

Due to space constraints, we cannot include all language packs in the
LiveCD. They are, however, downloaded and installed if there is a
working Internet connection during the installation.

In Maverick only the following languages were included in the Kubuntu
LiveCD:

German
English
Spanish
French
Russian

Italian could unfortunately not be included, as many others. Therefore,
I'd suggest to test with an installed system and report back.

> Some parts of the System Settings subdialogs are still in English and the
> Kubuntu System Doc, also.
>

See the comment above.

> Kubuntu System Doc is translated, AFAIK, because I have translated them. Why
> are translation not inserted?
>

The Kubuntu Docs translations need to be downloaded from Launchpad and
included into the package. As Jonathan mentioned, this has not happened
this cycle yet, but the goal is to include them in an stable release
update.

If you'd like to help in this, I'd suggest getting in touch with
Jonathan and the docs team. I'm sure they will appreciate any help
anyone can offer.

> Is it necessary to open a bug for that or not?
>

In general it's good to open bugs in translations against the
ubuntu-translations project:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translatons/+filebug

Translations are best tested and bugs filed during the development
cycle, since then they can be fixed more easily. If you want to
contribute, I'd recommend joining the testing efforts during the
development cycle.

However, please do check translations with an installed system first
before filing bugs.

> Interface:
>
> I suppose this gap is due to the different KDE upstream branch Launchpad takes
> the po files from.
> Because KDE splits between stable and trunk (and several of them are still in
> playground), and Kubuntu uses apps from both of them (e.g., read
> "Kpackagekit", it's 2 years I cannot obtain get its complete translation, even
> if I'm always translating it), it is very difficult to get a complete
> translation.
> The other reason is, obviously, the difference between release dates :-)
>
> So I wonder: is it possible to have a system that warns the Ubuntu approved
> translators when a po file change?
> Better if an user, with a number of po files subscriptions, could receive a
> sort of "digest" of the changes to his/her email address.
>
> Another question: is it possible to have the source indication for files that
> have been picked upstream? This will facilitate enormously some our tasks,
> such as going to see if a file is only Launchpad-related or also, in our case,
> KDE-related.
>
> Thanks for the attention, ciao

El ds 09 de 10 de 2010 a les 02:02 +0200, en/na Alessandro Ghersi va
escriure:
> Anyway, I suggest (if it's possible) to move our translations into KDE
> repository to don't let Launchpad breaks anymore our translation.

Alessandro,

I do acknowledge the fact that there are issues with the integration of
KDE translations into language packs. We've discussed them in the past,
but I'll be happy to discuss them again in more detail if necessary.

So far though, and apart from [1] and [2], there weren't any other
related to this on this thread, if I remember correctly. If there are
any, please feel free to point to an existing bug or to file new ones if
necessary.

> Get
> rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be a thing to put into
> the list of possible discussion at UDS.

As I've said in the past when this has been brought up, this should be
discussed with translators as well. If such a decision were to be taken,
a concrete roadmap with the migration to an alternative translation
infrastructure and how to deal with Kubuntu-specific translations would
most probably be necessary.

If you'd like to lead this effort, I'd suggest starting with such a
proposal.

However, I do think that going away from Launchpad Translations would
mean losing a lot of translation contributions from Ubuntu translators
and increase the contribution barrier for translation contributions in
Kubuntu.

El dv 08 de 10 de 2010 a les 23:23 -0400, en/na Mackenzie Morgan va
escriure: On Friday, October 08, 2010 08:02:07 pm Alessandro Ghersi
wrote:
[...]
> > translation. Get rid of Launchpad for the translations maybe can be
> > a thing to put into the list of possible discussion at UDS.
>
> I thought that WAS what KUbuntu did for translations. Anything KDE,
> they take the upstream ones, and only use LP for Kubuntu-specific
> stuff.
>

In KDE, as in any upstream project, we import all upstream translations
and give them precedence, as per our policy [3].

As explained in other occasions (I'll be happy to go into more detail if
necessary), we do not have a "translations locking" feature in
Launchpad.

Instead, we rely on the translation teams to decide on their preferred
workflow and upstream cooperation. There are many existing Ubuntu
translation teams with members both in the downstream and upstream
teams, which facilitate this collaboration. For new teams, we make sure
they know about upstream [4] [5] and encourage them to participate
there.

This works differently in different teams. The two most common
approaches for dealing with upstream translations are:

Workflow 1: Translation upstream, import downstream.
With this approach, you do all translations in the upstream projects
using their translation interfaces if they've got any. Translations will
then be imported in all downstream distributions.

* Pros: you only have to care about translating in every upstream.
Then translations will flow downstream.
* Cons: many upstream translation projects have translation
methods that might not be for everyone - too technical in many
cases.

Workflow 2: Translation downstream, commits upstream.
With this approach, you do all translations in using the Launchpad web
interface and when you are ready you export them and commit them in the
upstream projects.

* Pros: translation for all projects is done through a centralized
and easy to use translation interface, which also has
permissions and review functionality for QA. Low barrier for
contribution: no prior technical knowledge required
* Cons: there is no automated way to send back translations to
upstreams yet, so there should be a manual step for a
coordinator or a team member with technical knowledge to export
translations and commit them or send them to upstreams.

El ds 09 de 10 de 2010 a les 09:23 +0200, en/na Valter Mura va escriure:
More:
> - OpenOffice.org (all packages, but I suspect that, once everything
installed,

This is, again, due to the LiveCD not including Italian. The installed
system should be all localized.

A note on OpenOffice.org translations: we are shipping upstream
translations and we disabled translations in Launchpad since a few
cycles back, as there wasn't anyone who could take care of including the
translations from Launchpad in the package (they cannot be included in
language packs due to their special format). For more info on how
OpenOffice.org translations are (were) handled, see [6].

El ds 09 de 10 de 2010 a les 15:21 -0400, en/na Scott Kitterman va
escriure:
>
> They still get loaded stripped and uploaded into language packs with
> opportunities along the way for LP translators and infrastructure to
> "improve" the situation.
>

Hi Scott,

That's correct. Our existing language pack infrastructure allows us to
provide translation updates to stable releases throughout the lifecycle
of a distro even when upstream translations are no longer shipped due to
our SRU policy. Kubuntu translators can choose to complete translations
and fix mistakes if necessary, and their work will be shipped in the
language packs.

Here's also more info on why we do what we do:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Upstream

I also acknowledge the fact that in Kubuntu this might require
additional work for developers (and some special-casing in the Launchpad
code).

> We've repeatedly asked for existing KDE translations to be locked so
> that the only thing Ubuntu translators can do is provide missing
> strings. It's not a priority apparently.
>

It's not one of the current priorities, that's also correct. To provide
more background, let me include the reply I sent to ubuntu-devel some
days ago on this:

Your request has been echoed before, and it is not something trivial to
implement: while some translation teams might want to work upstream
exclusively, others might want to work on Launchpad only and then send
translations upstream. I've seen both workflows, and right now this is
something better controlled by the translation teams themselves than on
a Launchpad-wide setting. Since the time we requested all translation
teams to be moderated and the global policy on translations for Ubuntu
to be Restricted, this has been working quite well.

We've got scarce development resources for working on Launchpad
Translations, and defining the priorities to work requires always a
balance between new features and work that provides an immediate benefit
to translators and upstreams. Right now the Launchpad Translations
developers are working in providing a better upstream integration
experience, which I believe to be a higher priority at this time.

Therefore, they won't likely have the time to work on any new feature
such as template locking in the near future. In any case, that should
not discourage anyone in contributing to this, and the Launchpad
Translations development team will be happy to mentor anyone willing to
step up and work on such a feature (or any other). Here's how:

https://dev.launchpad.net/

You can also see some of the priorities, as expressed by the community
on several surveys some months ago. Notice that template locking was
indeed a request, it just wasn't on the top list:

https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/Reports/ThreeWishes4.0

El ds 09 de 10 de 2010 a les 19:58 +0200, en/na Valter Mura va escriure:
> I also opened a "question" in Launchpad, I don't know it will be
> useful:
>
> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/128533

All feedback is always useful and very welcome. Thanks for taking the
time to write down your thoughts and submitting them.

I'll let the Launchpad Translations developers reply in more detail to
them. Also please take into account the comments above on resources and
priorities. If some of the features are not implemented, I just want to
make sure it is clear why.

Phew, this was a long reply. I hope you find it useful. If any part is
not clear, or if you've got more questions related to translations,
please feel free to ask on the translators list or on the
#ubuntu-translators IRC channel on Freenode.

Thanks!

Regards,
David.

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/userconfig/+bug/658741
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+bug/658713
[3]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationsPrecedence
[4] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam
[5] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Upstream/KDE
[6] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/OpenOffice.org

--
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:07 PM
Valter Mura
 
Default Strings not translated in Kubuntu 10.10 RC

In data luned́ 11 ottobre 2010 23:32:20, Jonathan Riddell ha scritto:

Hi Jonathan,

thanks for all explanations,

--cut--
>
> > > Docs (inside the help system):
> > >
> > > - Kubuntu System Docs
> >
> > Right, it's NOT translated
>
> These need to be extracted from launchpad and packaged by hand.
> anyone who knows how to do this is most welcome to help or show me
> how.

I'm not a technician in packages area, but like David (Planella) wrote in
other message, I'll try to document myself and give a hand in every possible
way.

Ciao, Salut, Cheers
--
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Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org
OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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