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Old 07-21-2010, 05:59 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

On Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:40:24 pm Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> On Wed 21 Jul 2010 12:32:59 pm Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 17:59:04 (CEST), Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > > smplayer almost certainly not, mplayer has licencing isues which
> > > prevent it being on the CD.
> >
> > Could you please elaborate on these licensing issues? The package is in
> > universe and licensed under GPL. As maintainer of the package in debian
> > and upstream contributor, I'm really curious to learn about your
> > licensing concerns of mplayer.
>
> It looks like it is and has always been in multiverse:
> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer
>
> It also depends on libmp3lame0, which is in multiverse. (Not sure if that's
> the sole reason for its residence in multiverse or not)

Beyond that, even if the non-free depends could be dropped there is also:

libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (c.f. Ubuntu technical board resolution
2007-01-02)

(this is embedded in the comments of multiple seeds)

Scott K

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Old 07-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Reinhard Tartler
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 19:59:34 (CEST), Scott Kitterman wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:40:24 pm Jonathan Thomas wrote:
>> On Wed 21 Jul 2010 12:32:59 pm Reinhard Tartler wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 17:59:04 (CEST), Jonathan Riddell wrote:
>> > > smplayer almost certainly not, mplayer has licencing isues which
>> > > prevent it being on the CD.
>> >
>> > Could you please elaborate on these licensing issues? The package is in
>> > universe and licensed under GPL. As maintainer of the package in debian
>> > and upstream contributor, I'm really curious to learn about your
>> > licensing concerns of mplayer.
>>
>> It looks like it is and has always been in multiverse:
>> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer
>>
>> It also depends on libmp3lame0, which is in multiverse. (Not sure if that's
>> the sole reason for its residence in multiverse or not)

I believe this is an error, but didn't find the time to overwork the
debian/copyright files and request their promotion. They are all GPL
licensed packages that should be perfectly acceptable license-wise for
kubuntu.

That was btw the main reason I've asked for your concerns. I understand
that there are actually none.

> Beyond that, even if the non-free depends could be dropped there is also:
>
> libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (c.f. Ubuntu technical board resolution
> 2007-01-02)

I suspected that, but this has nothing to do with software licenses.

AFAIUI, vlc loads libavcodec.so at runtime via
/usr/lib/vlc/plugins/codec/libavcodec_plugin.so, similar to xine which
kubuntu currently uses. The major difference is that for xine, the
'avcodec' plugin is in the package 'libxine1-ffmpeg', which is
blacklisted on the CDs as well. I'm pretty sure that something similar
could be arranged for vlc as well. We haven't done that yet because
there is (was) no technical necessity for this.

All in all, this all sounds like a realistically solvable problem to me.

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Old 07-21-2010, 07:27 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

On Wednesday, July 21, 2010 03:15:39 pm Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 19:59:34 (CEST), Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:40:24 pm Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> >> On Wed 21 Jul 2010 12:32:59 pm Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> >> > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 17:59:04 (CEST), Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> >> > > smplayer almost certainly not, mplayer has licencing isues which
> >> > > prevent it being on the CD.
> >> >
> >> > Could you please elaborate on these licensing issues? The package is
> >> > in universe and licensed under GPL. As maintainer of the package in
> >> > debian and upstream contributor, I'm really curious to learn about
> >> > your licensing concerns of mplayer.
> >>
> >> It looks like it is and has always been in multiverse:
> >> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer
> >>
> >> It also depends on libmp3lame0, which is in multiverse. (Not sure if
> >> that's the sole reason for its residence in multiverse or not)
>
> I believe this is an error, but didn't find the time to overwork the
> debian/copyright files and request their promotion. They are all GPL
> licensed packages that should be perfectly acceptable license-wise for
> kubuntu.
>
> That was btw the main reason I've asked for your concerns. I understand
> that there are actually none.
>
> > Beyond that, even if the non-free depends could be dropped there is also:
> >
> > libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (c.f. Ubuntu technical board
> > resolution 2007-01-02)
>
> I suspected that, but this has nothing to do with software licenses.
>
> AFAIUI, vlc loads libavcodec.so at runtime via
> /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/codec/libavcodec_plugin.so, similar to xine which
> kubuntu currently uses. The major difference is that for xine, the
> 'avcodec' plugin is in the package 'libxine1-ffmpeg', which is
> blacklisted on the CDs as well. I'm pretty sure that something similar
> could be arranged for vlc as well. We haven't done that yet because
> there is (was) no technical necessity for this.
>
> All in all, this all sounds like a realistically solvable problem to me.

So I guess the next question would be do we want it? We're going to have a
Kubuntu meeting soon (Riddell is supposed to schedule it) and media player
selection will be an item on the list.

Scott K

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Old 07-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but...what's wrong with Dragon?

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Old 07-21-2010, 08:06 PM
Ofir Klinger
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

One problem is subtitles. Dragon doesn't support external subtitles*so only subtitles for DVD will work.

Take a look:http://imagebin.ca/view/yBzj1T.html

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:


Maybe I missed this somewhere, but...what's wrong with Dragon?



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Old 07-21-2010, 08:34 PM
"Rémi Denis-Courmont"
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

Hello,

Le mercredi 21 juillet 2010 22:27:20 Scott Kitterman, vous avez écrit :
> > I believe this is an error, but didn't find the time to overwork the
> > debian/copyright files and request their promotion. They are all GPL
> > licensed packages that should be perfectly acceptable license-wise for
> > kubuntu.
> >
> > That was btw the main reason I've asked for your concerns. I understand
> > that there are actually none.
> >
> > > Beyond that, even if the non-free depends could be dropped there is
> > > also:
> > >
> > > libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (c.f. Ubuntu technical board
> > > resolution 2007-01-02)
> >
> > I suspected that, but this has nothing to do with software licenses.
> >
> > AFAIUI, vlc loads libavcodec.so at runtime via
> > /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/codec/libavcodec_plugin.so,

...and /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/demux/libavformat_plugin.so too due to
libavformat's dependency on libavcodec.

> > similar to xine which
> > kubuntu currently uses. The major difference is that for xine, the
> > 'avcodec' plugin is in the package 'libxine1-ffmpeg', which is
> > blacklisted on the CDs as well. I'm pretty sure that something similar
> > could be arranged for vlc as well. We haven't done that yet because
> > there is (was) no technical necessity for this.
> >
> > All in all, this all sounds like a realistically solvable problem to me.

Depending on the reason(s) why Ubuntu won't put avcodec and avformat to gold,
someone should check whether other codec libraries are acceptable, notably
libmpeg2, liba52 and libdca. If not, some more VLC plugins will need to be
relocated, and some more plugins will be OK but useless. This will reduce the
set of currently non-main dependencies.

Also, dvdread and dvdnav are not terribly useful as there are not too many
cleartext DVDs out there.

> So I guess the next question would be do we want it? We're going to have a
> Kubuntu meeting soon (Riddell is supposed to schedule it) and media player
> selection will be an item on the list.

This will render the player mostly useless, playing mostly Theora and Dirac
(not even WebM - it uses avcodec). I don't know how this compares to the
feature set of the current stripped xine-lib. But I am a bit afraid that this
will give a terrible first impression to many users, especially those knowing
VLC as the solution to Windows codecs hell.

If it were me, I would have the user install a proper codec-rich player (Xine,
VLC, mplayer or whatever you like) from the online repositories in the most
obvious and seamless manner instead. But it's your call anyway.

--
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http://fi.linkedin.com/in/remidenis

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Old 07-21-2010, 08:42 PM
"Rémi Denis-Courmont"
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

Le lundi 19 juillet 2010 18:59:04 Jonathan Riddell, vous avez écrit :
> VLC would be concievable but would need someone to review it for
> licencing issues and get it and all the build-deps through MIR. It
> has a pretty ugly UI though. "Advanced Open File" yuck.

Are you refering to the layout or the style or both?

The engineer-grade "Advanced" Open File dialog is required to support separate
subtitle files. I think we never found a way to extend the standard Qt open
dialog, so we kept the old user-unfriendly dialog, for the subtitle case. If
someone knows a nicer solution, help is most welcome.

As for the non-KDE style (in VLC 1.1.x / Maverick), this is a side effect of
the ugly work around for KDE bug #234484. You probably just need to revert
this change for KDEification of VLC's Qt-based interface:
http://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc/vlc-1.1.git;a=commitdiff;h=baaca1410f95299ae44b0840db8 6fb3ea56ab620;hp=3e4262af0f906f44ecb16d0591b976515 178d6d4

Best regards,

--
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http://www.remlab.net/
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:47 PM
Valter Mura
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

In data mercoledì 21 luglio 2010 21:15:39, Reinhard Tartler ha scritto:

> >> It looks like it is and has always been in multiverse:
> >> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer
> >>
> >> It also depends on libmp3lame0, which is in multiverse. (Not sure if
> >> that's the sole reason for its residence in multiverse or not)
>
> I believe this is an error, but didn't find the time to overwork the
> debian/copyright files and request their promotion. They are all GPL
> licensed packages that should be perfectly acceptable license-wise for
> kubuntu.
>
> That was btw the main reason I've asked for your concerns. I understand
> that there are actually none.
>
> > Beyond that, even if the non-free depends could be dropped there is also:
> >
> > libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (c.f. Ubuntu technical board
> > resolution 2007-01-02)
>
> I suspected that, but this has nothing to do with software licenses.
>
> AFAIUI, vlc loads libavcodec.so at runtime via
> /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/codec/libavcodec_plugin.so, similar to xine which
> kubuntu currently uses. The major difference is that for xine, the
> 'avcodec' plugin is in the package 'libxine1-ffmpeg', which is
> blacklisted on the CDs as well. I'm pretty sure that something similar
> could be arranged for vlc as well. We haven't done that yet because
> there is (was) no technical necessity for this.
>
> All in all, this all sounds like a realistically solvable problem to me.

so, in this, case, why don't consider the use of "kplayer"? It's based on
mplayer and has also subtitle functionalities.

Regards,
--
Valter
Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org
OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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Old 07-21-2010, 09:01 PM
Michal Zajac
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

2010/7/21 Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net>
Â*
If it were me, I would have the user install a proper codec-rich player (Xine,

VLC, mplayer or whatever you like) from the online repositories in the most
Â*obvious and seamless manner instead. But it's your call anyway.
If we were to install it like this then we could use SMPlayer as well.

I prefer SMPlayer because it has no problems with subtitles in Matroska (*.mkv) files.------------------------------------------------------
Michał Zając
E-mail: quintasan@kubuntu.org


Blog: http://blog.quintasan.pl
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/quintasan



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Old 07-21-2010, 09:04 PM
Ofir Klinger
 
Default Kaffeine 1.0 and Kubuntu

SMPlayer is also much more simple to use then VLC

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:01 AM, Michal Zajac <michal.zajac@gmail.com> wrote:


2010/7/21 Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net>


Â*
If it were me, I would have the user install a proper codec-rich player (Xine,

VLC, mplayer or whatever you like) from the online repositories in the most
Â*obvious and seamless manner instead. But it's your call anyway.
If we were to install it like this then we could use SMPlayer as well.



I prefer SMPlayer because it has no problems with subtitles in Matroska (*.mkv) files.------------------------------------------------------
Michał Zając
E-mail: quintasan@kubuntu.org




Blog: http://blog.quintasan.pl
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/quintasan






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