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-   -   Proposal for (Italian) translation (http://www.linux-archive.org/kubuntu-development/367841-proposal-italian-translation.html)

Valter Mura 05-07-2010 06:14 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
Hi All,

I'm new to the list and, since now, I've been a "lurker" :-)

I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. I'm only a translator, and I'm one
of the few Italian translators for Kubuntu (unfortunately).

I read the discussion in the file you link in the Timelord Page, and I think
it's the moment, now, to give my humble opinion for the way to follow for a
rational translation.

I also join the KDE and OpenOffice.orf Italian translation teams, so I know the
different ways they handle the projects.

Launchpad is a good project management system, and it is easy to use. But, as
per my experience there, the management of the Ubuntu translation packages
needs some tunes to work at its best:

1- The translation projects should be separated.
Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from Ubuntu and
Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them easily.
Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.

2- Upstream packages should stay in a subdirectory of the distro.
KDE, and all the packages "included and mantained" by the Italian KDE team
should be clearly visible to all. I know which are them and who are the
translators, but many people inside Luanchpad don't know them and modify and
suggest inside. Many times is not clear which packets could be translated and
which not. Many people are normal people, like me, and they don't know which
packets are kde, which kubuntu, which openoffice and so on. In one word, this
means "mess".

3- The translation process (tp) should be always "restricted".
This is necessary, IMHO, only for a rational management of the tp and the
correct style of the translation.
Anybody could, or any robot could, leave suggestions, of course, but the last
word should be always of the "official" (allowed) translators, the "intrepid"
ones that showed capacity, knowledge, efforts and trustworthiness throughout
the process.

4- The tp should follow the translation rules of the main upstream
environment.
In this case, IMHO, KDE, also for Kubuntu self-programmed apps. Better
explained: in Italian, Gnome uses the impersonal genre to "render" the English
"you" and the Ubuntu Italian Team follows the same. KDE Italian Team uses the
2nd singular and Kubuntu should use the same. If the projects are unified, how
could we manage with this problem? On the other hand, OpenOffice.org Italian
Team uses the 2nd plural, and this is a fact, we cannot change it, because it
is a separate project. The same for KDE.

5- Working online or offline?
Good question. I prefer working "offline", I can manage well my strings, have my
translation memory and, once finished, upload all the stuff on the site. KDE
and, mainly, OpenOffice.org follow this way. Ubuntu not, or well, it is possible
to translate offline, but it is suggested to use the online system.
While there is a good reason to have a "real time" translation always
available in the system, many things cannot be handled and you cannot have the
translation "in your hand". Moreover, presently it is not possible to have
"fuzzy" strings in Launchpad. This is not good, because they allow translator
to speed up the tp, making only few (and necessary) changes. The most CAT
Tools and Pootle do that. For the CAT tools, we can discuss.

6- If a translator has the responsibility of a package, the online system
should advise him/her if a change in the strings occurred. This is necessary
to speed up the tp. Imagine a translator who has 100 packets and 30,000
strings to check... this feature should be integrate, as mimimun requirement,
inside an user account "translation status view".

7- More responsibility, better work.
if a translator is responsible of a packet, or a group of packets, I think
he/she will be more responsible during the tp. Responsibility is not
mandatory, obviously. KDE works in this way.

That's all folks, for the moment.
Sorry for the mistakes and I hope my considerations could be useful to improve
Kubuntu (which is my only goal).
Waiting for your replies, suggestions, critics... :)

Ciao,
--
Valter
Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org
Kubuntu Linux: www.ubuntu.com
Usa OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org

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Mackenzie Morgan 05-07-2010 06:48 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
On Friday, May 07, 2010 2:14:47 pm Valter Mura wrote:
> 1- The translation projects should be separated.
> Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from Ubuntu
> and Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them easily.
> Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.

I'd be afraid of that resulting in more translators going "oh...KDE stuff? I
don't use KDE. Screw that." and leaving our stuff untranslated.

--
Mackenzie Morgan
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com
apt-get moo

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Scott Kitterman 05-07-2010 07:52 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
"Mackenzie Morgan" <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 07, 2010 2:14:47 pm Valter Mura wrote:
>> 1- The translation projects should be separated.
>> Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from Ubuntu
>> and Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them easily.
>> Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.
>
>I'd be afraid of that resulting in more translators going "oh...KDE stuff? I
>don't use KDE. Screw that." and leaving our stuff untranslated.
>
I think a lot of people would be OK with that.

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Mackenzie Morgan 05-07-2010 08:12 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
On Friday, May 07, 2010 3:52:10 pm Scott Kitterman wrote:
> "Mackenzie Morgan" <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, May 07, 2010 2:14:47 pm Valter Mura wrote:
> >> 1- The translation projects should be separated.
> >> Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from
> >> Ubuntu and Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them
> >> easily. Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.
> >
> >I'd be afraid of that resulting in more translators going "oh...KDE stuff?
> >I don't use KDE. Screw that." and leaving our stuff untranslated.
>
> I think a lot of people would be OK with that.

I thought the big argh in Kubuntu translations was there being lots of stuff
left untranslated...

--
Mackenzie Morgan
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com
apt-get moo

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Jonathan Thomas 05-07-2010 08:15 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
On Fri 07 May 2010 04:12:27 pm Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
> On Friday, May 07, 2010 3:52:10 pm Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > "Mackenzie Morgan" <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Friday, May 07, 2010 2:14:47 pm Valter Mura wrote:
> > >> 1- The translation projects should be separated.
> > >> Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from
> > >> Ubuntu and Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them
> > >> easily. Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.
> > >
> > >I'd be afraid of that resulting in more translators going "oh...KDE
> > >stuff? I don't use KDE. Screw that." and leaving our stuff
> > >untranslated.
> >
> > I think a lot of people would be OK with that.
>
> I thought the big argh in Kubuntu translations was there being lots of
> stuff left untranslated...

Sort of. Generally, the translations upstream hands us have been pretty
complete. In more recent releases, the problem has mainly become Rosetta
losing upstream translations, or well-meaning translators messing up the
(usually QA'd) upstream translations.

So yes, that's been the big argh, but for different reasons than would be
obvious at first glance.

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Scott Kitterman 05-07-2010 08:44 PM

Proposal for (Italian) translation
 
"Mackenzie Morgan" <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 07, 2010 3:52:10 pm Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> "Mackenzie Morgan" <macoafi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, May 07, 2010 2:14:47 pm Valter Mura wrote:
>> >> 1- The translation projects should be separated.
>> >> Better explained: Kubuntu packages should be clearly separated from
>> >> Ubuntu and Xubuntu ones, translators needs to search and find them
>> >> easily. Only the "shared" packages need to stay together.
>> >
>> >I'd be afraid of that resulting in more translators going "oh...KDE stuff?
>> >I don't use KDE. Screw that." and leaving our stuff untranslated.
>>
>> I think a lot of people would be OK with that.
>
>I thought the big argh in Kubuntu translations was there being lots of stuff
>left untranslated...

No. It's build systems breaking in odd ways and upstream translations not making it into the language packs and Ubuntu translators making changes that worsen them which then get reported to upstream as upstream translation bugs.

Our goal (which prior to Lucid we had not reached in a KDE4 release (no opinion yet on Lucid)) was to deliver translations not worse than upstream's.

We had one post RC upload to revert a translation change done in LP and I think another needing an SRU. I don't recall ever having a problem from using KDE translations directly (which we routinely do with PPA uploads)

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