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Old 04-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Ofir Klinger
 
Default Login and logout sounds

I really don't agree with your opinion about the logout sound. It is*necessary*to alert the user that a logout is performed.
I think there are two main reasons why logout sound is*beneficial. After the user presses the logout button and till the logout

operation can actually be seen, takes a couple of seconds (on some computers). In that time frame the user can be mistakenbe the silence and think that something is wrong. So it can be confusing for the average user.


Plus, the sound can be used, for example, to verify that the computer is shutting down correctly (in case of a shutdown, which then the sound is also being played).The user can press the shutdown button and go take care of other things while he keeps paying attention for the sound that tells him the computer is shutting down.


I guess there are more good reasons, those are the ones that just came to my mind.

I partly agree with you about the login sound. I do think it can be sometimes long, but it is not too long.

However, I really like the current (KDE's) login sound. It is really nice.
BTW, the login sound is 8 seconds long, while only 4 them are actually dominant. The last 4 seconds are really quite (I guess it also depends on how you tune the volume of your speakers).



On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> wrote:


Hai!



I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter of login and logout sounds.



Problem as I experience it:

* Both the login and the logout sounds are far too long



Proposed solution:

* Change login sound to the old Kubuntu login sounds as seen in our KDE 3

releases

* Turn off logout sound completely



Justifications:

* Kubuntu login sounds is shorter and "more to the point", our competitors

(well, other than the other KDE distros mostly) have rather short sounds

whereas our feels very very very long

* I find logout sounds very useless and think there is no right logout sound,

other than silence + loading and playing the sound might actually delay logout



I probably should also talk to the oxygen people about this, but first I would

get some general feedback on this.



--

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Kubuntu Core Developer

http://www.kubuntu.org


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Old 04-07-2010, 09:23 PM
Clay Weber
 
Default Login and logout sounds

On Wednesday 07 April 2010 04:47:55 pm Harald Sitter wrote:
> Hai!
>
> I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter of login and logout
> sounds.
>
> Problem as I experience it:
> * Both the login and the logout sounds are far too long
>
> Proposed solution:
> * Change login sound to the old Kubuntu login sounds as seen in our KDE
3
> releases
> * Turn off logout sound completely
>
> Justifications:
> * Kubuntu login sounds is shorter and "more to the point", our
competitors
> (well, other than the other KDE distros mostly) have rather short sounds
> whereas our feels very very very long
> * I find logout sounds very useless and think there is no right logout
> sound, other than silence + loading and playing the sound might actually
> delay logout
>
> I probably should also talk to the oxygen people about this, but first I
> would get some general feedback on this.

+1 from me, a shorter login sound would be better imo, though I personally
don't like them, and they upset my better half

As to not hiving a logout sound, I am not sure which way to go on that.
Currently, the default is to select logout/shutdown/restart and then confirm
the action, so on the surface a sound would be somewhat superfluous.

Clay Weber

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:28 PM
Christian Mangold
 
Default Login and logout sounds

Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 22:47:55 schrieb Harald Sitter:

> I probably should also talk to the oxygen people about this, but first I
> would get some general feedback on this.

We are using usptream's default everywhere, we should do the same with these
sounds.

Christian

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Login and logout sounds

Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 23:10:31 schrieb Ofir Klinger:
> I think there are two main reasons why logout sound is beneficial. After
> the user presses the logout button and till the logout
> operation can actually be seen, takes a couple of seconds (on some
> computers). In that time frame the user can be mistaken
> be the silence and think that something is wrong. So it can be confusing
> for the average user.

Hm, good point on this, some sort of feedback might indeed be appropriate,
however I would then rather opt for a 1 second tune. Enough to indicate that
something is happening and yet not overly delaying the logout action.

> Plus, the sound can be used, for example, to verify that the computer is
> shutting down correctly (in case of a shutdown, which then the sound is
> also being played).
> The user can press the shutdown button and go take care of other things
> while he keeps paying attention for the sound that tells him the computer
> is shutting down.

Now that is just wrong from any POV. The playing of the sounds is no
whatsoever indication whether the shutdown is being performed properly, it
merely suggests that the signal was received and that something is happenig,
so indeed a short sounds is appropriate in order to give feedback. But saying
that it is necessary because it means the shutdown is being performed is just
not right. In a perfect world that would be the case, but in reality shutdown
sometimes fails to execute properly. Unfortunately, I might add.

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Login and logout sounds

Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 23:28:25 schrieb Christian Mangold:
> Am Mittwoch, 7. April 2010 22:47:55 schrieb Harald Sitter:
> > I probably should also talk to the oxygen people about this, but first I
> > would get some general feedback on this.
>
> We are using usptream's default everywhere, we should do the same with
> these sounds.

We are not, otherwise we wouldnt have kubuntu-default-settings but just
kubuntu-branding

You are probably right though, its just that the current situation is making
me very unhappy

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Old 04-07-2010, 10:14 PM
Yuval Levy
 
Default Login and logout sounds

Hallo,

On April 7, 2010 04:47:55 pm Harald Sitter wrote:
> I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter of login and logout
> sounds.

not that my opinion matters much - I am just starting to hack on kubuntu and
am so far a selfishly satisfied user. Since you ask for opinions, I
respectfully would like to make the following statement: sound travels and is
difficult to control. Sound pollution, whether from one cubicle to the next or
from the living room to the baby's room, is more difficult to control than
visual feedback.

With that in mind, I recommend something short, or even no sound completely.
Flash the display instead.

On a side note, I don't know if it is a user problem or a bug. With 9.10 the
login and logout sound would come out of the TV (attached via ATI RadeonHD
HDMI cable) while the rest of the sound would go through the on-board
soundcard (Intel Atom motherboard). With 10.04 no sound at all through HDMI.
Maybe because I've replaced the ATI proprietary drivers with the open sourced
RadeonHD drivers? Both cards are recognized and available in the Multimedia
System Settings and in the mixer, although the ATI HDMI output only has a
checkbox and nothing else. It bugs me that I can't control which soundcard is
used, but I suspect a user problem than a system bug? sorry for bothering you
with my sound problem, and thank you for your great work on Kubuntu.

You guys rock!
Yuv
http://panospace.wordpress.com/

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Old 04-07-2010, 10:21 PM
Jonathan Thomas
 
Default Login and logout sounds

On Wed 07 Apr 2010 04:47:55 pm Harald Sitter wrote:
> Hai!
>
> I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter of login and
logout
> sounds.
>
> Problem as I experience it:
> * Both the login and the logout sounds are far too long
>
> Proposed solution:
> * Change login sound to the old Kubuntu login sounds as seen
in our KDE 3
> releases
> * Turn off logout sound completely

What if we changed the sounds for login/logoff to the ones for
plugged in/unplugged power cords? (Also used for
suspending/hibernating, etc) It's consistent because the sounds
are already used for notifying the user of "leaving" events,
etc, plus they're all fairly short. They are also already part
of the Oxygen sound theme, preserving consistency in that
regard.
>
> Justifications:
> * Kubuntu login sounds is shorter and "more to the point", our
competitors
> (well, other than the other KDE distros mostly) have rather
short sounds
> whereas our feels very very very long
> * I find logout sounds very useless and think there is no
right logout
> sound, other than silence + loading and playing the sound
might actually
> delay logout
>
> I probably should also talk to the oxygen people about this,
but first I
> would get some general feedback on this.

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Old 04-08-2010, 12:48 AM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Login and logout sounds

Am Donnerstag, 8. April 2010 00:21:25 schrieb Jonathan Thomas:
> What if we changed the sounds for login/logoff to the ones for
> plugged in/unplugged power cords? (Also used for
> suspending/hibernating, etc) It's consistent because the sounds
> are already used for notifying the user of "leaving" events,
> etc, plus they're all fairly short. They are also already part
> of the Oxygen sound theme, preserving consistency in that
> regard.

Uh, very good idea, that way we still maintain the little feedback we need and
also shorten the sounds... I am all for that

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Old 04-08-2010, 01:50 AM
Luke Aaron
 
Default Login and logout sounds

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 06:47:55 am Harald Sitter wrote:
> Hai!
>
> I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter of login and logout sounds.

In terms of logout sound, I think it is not required. Why not just de-saturate the screen? This can indicate that the logout has been started without causing un-necessary noise.

For login, I agree the sound is too long. It should be 4 seconds max. I think 3 is a good length personally. If you took the current sound, and stopped it at the end of the second beat and held that chord for another .5 seconds, or alternatively if you stopped it on the change of bass note (at the beginning of the third beat) and held that chord for a little longer, I believe that this would work well.

--
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:53 AM
Luke Aaron
 
Default Login and logout sounds

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:48:26 am Harald Sitter wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 8. April 2010 00:21:25 schrieb Jonathan Thomas:
> > What if we changed the sounds for login/logoff to the ones for
> > plugged in/unplugged power cords? (Also used for
> > suspending/hibernating, etc) It's consistent because the sounds
> > are already used for notifying the user of "leaving" events,
> > etc, plus they're all fairly short. They are also already part
> > of the Oxygen sound theme, preserving consistency in that
> > regard.
>
> Uh, very good idea, that way we still maintain the little feedback we need and
> also shorten the sounds... I am all for that
>
>

That would confuse things I think. It would seem like the computer is recognising the plugging in of a power cord on login, whether there is any present or not. Also, if you unplugged the power cord, you might freak out and think your computer is shutting itself down when you hear the sound.

--
Luke Aaron
https://launchpad.net/~lukeaar

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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