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Old 10-31-2009, 11:39 PM
"A. Rothman"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

Hi,

I just tried out the new kubuntu-netbook release, and wanted to share my
thoughts - unfortunately made up almost entirely of 'constructive
criticism' :-(

The following is copied/edited from the #kubuntu-netbook channel, which
pointed me to this list, and is written as a real-world thought train,
simple yet exaggerated/sarcastic, of a first time user - I hope no one
gets offended by the style, but remember I took the (long) time to write
it with the hope that it will ultimately be helpful and insightful, and
in the hope to see this become a leading netbook distribution :-)

Disclaimer: I started off by trying out kubuntu-netbook in virtualbox,
to check out the interface before I install it on the netbook. I realize
this will be a slightly different experience than the real thing, but
most of the feedback is about deeper design issues and unrelated bugs.

It's quite long, but covers many points. I hope somebody reads it.


After the first 30 seconds from my first login, my impression was: wtf?
That's a damn bizarre interface, not what I'd expect for a simple
netbook. It's not that it's different from what I'm used to; it's that
it's different in an overly-complex, confusing, cumbersome and
non-intuitive way.

After about 15 minutes more of playing around with it, and a tip or two
from someone in the #kubuntu-netbook channel, I think I figured out how
most of the interface works, after which my response was: wtf?

Let me guide you through my experience.

First, the menu. Nice large icons, good for a small display. It should
be easier to navigate on a netbook than with the regular K menu, even
with a touchpad, right? so there's the main menu categories, good. click
on a category. The main icons are replaced with the submenu icons. ok.
How do I go back up the hierarchy? No arrows there. The main categories
are gone. No right-click. Can't click off the menu to reset it. wtf?

So, after a bunch of tinkering - what's that? a little house icon. Was
it here before? I'm not quite sure, I was looking at the menu. But it
looks familiar, like from a browser. On the very corner. Of the desktop.
Like a 'my computer' icon in windows, or other such desktop icons, on
desktops. What does it do?

Oooh! The house-shaped desktop icon, is nothing more than a back arrow
for the menu! So instead of simple normal navigation, we now get to move
all the way to the corner, click on a desktop icon, and move all the way
back to the center (touchpads aren't the quickest way around). Want to
look through the menus to see what's available? repeat this half a dozen
times, sliding the touchpad back and forth from the center of the screen
to the corner, stopping for clicks at each end, with the little house
zapping in and out of existence. wtf?

Just off the top of my head: put the icon right next to the menu. Use an
intuitive graphic, such as a back arrow, or a constant K-menu logo, or
something familiar and intuitive. Or a stretched out arrow thing like in
the regular K-menu, maybe horizontal on top of the icons. Even better,
reduce the number of clicks necessary altogether - maybe a two-row menu,
with the top being the main categories, and the bottom one being the
sub-menu. it's intuitive, simple, static, requires less movement and
fewer clicks (no need for a 'back' button at all). If for some reason
you don't like a two-line menu (although there's plenty of space for
that, even on a netbook) - u can use the single bar, and have a
right-click go up one level in the menu. no need to use the touchpad to
do that. The point is that u don't have to stray too far from the
regular desktop K-menu - the standard navigation mechanism is already
pretty good! Come to think of it, just take the normal K-menu and turn
it sideways, moving the text into tooltips. No need to reinvent it from
scratch...

ok, on to the next thing - that transparent bar above it. For a new
user, it's certainly bizarre. u can't click nor right-click on it.
nothing to scroll. nothing drags in, nothing drags out. what is it? My
first thought - it's the new taskbar! So I start a couple of
applications, but nada. A few more tests, opening some apps, console,
calculator, firefox. Oh wait! The firefox icon suddenly appears in this
strange aquarium bar! maybe only some apps go there, and not others?
Very strange. I click on it, and yet another firefox instance opens, not
the running one. Hmmm. Maybe a right-click will explain something? Nope.
If only there was some explanation somewhere, even grayed out text, a
placeholder for what's to come, telling me what this thing is...

So, let's put that aside for now, figure it out later. Where are all the
apps I just opened? The top-left corner of the taskbar says '11 running
apps'. Where are they? No icons? No task buttons? Nope. No way to find
them. Maybe click on this corner? It seems to give visual feedback for
the click, but nothing happens. Oh well. So I turn to old habits, and
eventually find alt-tab works. Glad that works, even if it's somewhat
annoying to scroll through 11 apps like that. Ok, so not even tiny task
icons to remind me what's running and let me switch apps with a glance.
Let's move on.

Playing with the interface a few more minutes, I notice there's a little
star icon in the menu items, and little minus sign in the favorites
thing. It took a while to notice each, and figure out what they do, and
what the mysterious bar does - favorites. Mainly, they're not too
noticable. The human brain tends to ignore tiny things that fade in and
fade out a tad off center from where you're looking at, especially when
there are other effects going on at the same time (the whole icon frame
fading in and out around it, while the mouse is also moving). That first
time firefox popped into the favorites bar, I must have clicked the star
by mistake without even noticing. Both the star icons and minus icons
are sort of in the way of clicking on the icon itself! I found it a
novel idea at first, putting a button-icon on top of an icon, but less
than a minute later I found it to be more annoying and mistake-prone
than useful. Especially with the knowledge that now I have to be extra
careful about the exact placement of the pointer using the touchpad, not
to hit the star, which makes the larger-than usual icons moot.

Again, the simple, known and intuitive approach could do the same, with
not much more effort. No need to reinvent the wheel. Dragging an icon
from the menu to the favorites makes it a favorite. Right clicking on it
gives a 'add to favorites' option. Right-clicking on the favorite icon
gives a 'remove favorite' option. Dragging the icon out of the favorites
to anywhere outside it removes it as well. Note, in addition, that this
action of adding/removing doesn't happen too often in one's computer
lifetime, if at all. So having the add/remove icon buttons there all the
time is just annoying and in the way, since u normally don't use them in
daily work. These infrequent configuration items are exactly the place
where it's ok to trade a tiny bit more mouse activity, in return for
zero clutter during normal work. They should be invisible when I don't
need them, and magically-intuitive to find and use when I do.

ok, let's move on. There's the desktop, which seems to do nothing. Can't
click or right-click, can't drag icons onto it. It looks like there's no
interaction possible with the desktop at all. Not quite a desktop, more
of a wallpaper. So everything useful in the interface is tiny, hidden or
squeezed, but half the desktop is wasted space. wtf?

So now I look at the task bar again. Let's explore! Hmm.. those two tiny
little icons - a helpful tooltip says they can lock or logoff, very
convenient. But why on earth are they so tiny? Less than half the size
of an already tiny icon! Maybe because it's a netbook, and there's not
much space to waste. But wait, this taskbar has a whole lot of wasted
blank space on it, and the two main buttons on it are sooooo wide,
horizontal real-estate doesn't seem to be the problem... nope. It's just
another wierd 'let's do it different for no apparent reason' feature.
Breaks the visual consistency and aesthetics, makes it harder to use. U
could just as well make two normal looking, normal sized, standard
icons. Ones u don't need a magnifying glass to be able to click on, with
a touchpad no less.

ok, on to exploring these two big buttons which on other OSs would be
tasks, but here seem to be something quite different. So there's an
Applications button, which seems to be already selected. Makes sense.
But wait! There's another applications button sticking on the right of
the screen! Two different buttons with the same label! In different
places! A usability gem! Wonderfully intuitive! They must do the same
thing of course!

Let's click the right one. A little menu flies in. I don't know what it
means - the button is clearly off the desktop, and unrelated to the top
task bar. Just a tab hanging on to the side of the screen... let's click
on the background somewhere to get rid of the menu, like in any other
desktop. Nope, it won't go away. What if I click on the other
applications button? Well, something's getting screwed up there. Make it
go away. Ok, let's click the right applications button again (note how I
can't just say 'applications' button, coz there's two of them?) good,
the little menu flies away.

Ok, so now let's try the top applications button. And this newspaper
thing. Newspaper? Which one? Click to find out. So what do we have in
the newspaper? Two totally empty squares. Lovely! And a yellow square,
which I recognize as the post-it notes thing. Of course, it's a
newspaper! Where else would my post-it notes be? And a calendar, in this
newspaper. I'll let that one slide. I see clicking the clock in the
taskbar still works if I really need a calendar, as it does across all
operating systems. But ok, I don't mind an extra calendar, in the newspaper.

And finally, a bit of kde news headlines. Karmic has been released! :-)

So the label 'newspaper' doesn't quite make sense for what this
place/page/desktop/screen does. I'm not sure what to call the whole
concept either (not just the newspaper this time, but also the
applications thingy), since the apps one looked like a desktop but was
actually a menu, and this one is... a bunch of unrelated stuff nicely
aligned together. Are they two desktops? not quite. Workspaces? sounds a
bit better, but still not sure. Hey, maybe the newspaper can be called a
workspace! But then, what's the applications thing called? A desktop
it's not. A workspace too? nah, it's just a menu. but the thing on top
is a menu too! This is all too confusing. Let's try moving things around.

Hey! I can drag the newspaper button on to the applications button, and
it switches to it! nice. Then I must be able to do the same the other
way around! Oh wait, no. Trying to drag the apps button on to the
newspaper causes it to just slide right back. Strange indeed.

Ok then. Back to the right-side button which duplicates the label of the
top button, I now figured out what it does - it pops up a menu for
configuring the desktop area, even though it looks visually outside of
it and unrelated to it. It's a configuration menu. Something that's used
pretty rarely, and doesn't need to take up precious real-estate all the
time. And again, no need to be counter-intuitive and reinvent the wheel.
A simple right-click on the desktop (workspace?) could bring up this
little menu, like in any other OS. There's not enough room for seeing my
running apps, but I have to see the configuration-menu button stuck on
the side of the screen all day? (Yet another) wtf? If only my running
task icons were placed here in these nice tabs... now *that* would be
useful!

The little search box is a great idea. Dunno why it makes the little
menu-house icon appear though. Weird. I was gonna end with that, but
just found out there's no quick way to close the search box with the
touchpad - u need to aim for the little x button. Too bad clicking
anywhere else (e.g. desktop) doesn't make it go away, like pop-up stuff
usually behave. Same for that desktop-configuration menu button, as
previously mentioned.

Well, I think I'll end here. When this bunch gets sorted out, I'll give
it another round :-)

For the meanwhile, my netbook will enjoy the standard desktop edition
(well not for sure, because of dropped GMA500 support, but I'm really
tired of windows xp after almost a decade, so I'll see what I can do).

To conclude:

Having a netbook edition doesn't mean u have to make everything up anew.
The only differences from the desktop experience should be less mouse
(touchpad) movement to accomplish things, and making better use of a
small display's real-estate. That's it.

New paradigms are not good simply because they're novel and different -
they have to actually do a better job. Breaking well established
guidelines and user-intuition built over decades (e.g. using right-click
for context/configuration menus, using drag and drop, etc.) will simply
turn people off. That was my reaction, and that was the reaction of
others in the #kubuntu channel. They gave it one usb-boot/vm shot, said
'wtf?', and trashed it. Imagine a colleague/friend borrowing your
netbook for a minute to check her mail. I think the goal should be, in
60 seconds, to have her say 'wow that kubuntu thing is really cool! I
wish I had that too!', rather than 'my coffee break is over and I still
didn't find where the browser disappeared... you and your weird
gizmos... can't u use normal windows like everybody else?'

I know it's not an official kde release yet (although it does look like
an official kubuntu release), but I took the time to write my experience
up in the hope that all this will be thought through and sorted out
before the next release, so kubuntu-netbook will provide a genuinely
upgraded and more productive experience on netbooks than the alternatives.

If you got this far, may u be blessed with a fun and joyful day to
compensate for this :-)

Thanks for you time and efforts,

Amichai



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Old 11-03-2009, 01:18 PM
Peter Antoniac
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

> Thanks for you time and efforts,

Thanks for the review. You should send this email also to the other list:
ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com

Nice work!

Peter
-
Peter Antoniac, PhD
https://launchpad.net/~pan1nx
GIT/CS a C+++ UL+++$ w--- PGP++ e++++

BOFH excuse #310:

asynchronous inode failure

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Old 11-05-2009, 10:12 AM
"A. Rothman"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

I originally posted this to kubuntu-devel, and it was suggested that I
send it here as well... so here it is :-)


-------- Original Message --------

Hi,

I just tried out the new kubuntu-netbook release, and wanted to share my
thoughts - unfortunately made up almost entirely of 'constructive
criticism' :-(

The following is copied/edited from the #kubuntu-netbook channel, which
pointed me to this list, and is written as a real-world thought train,
simple yet exaggerated/sarcastic, of a first time user - I hope no one
gets offended by the style, but remember I took the (long) time to write
it with the hope that it will ultimately be helpful and insightful, and
in the hope to see this become a leading netbook distribution :-)

Disclaimer: I started off by trying out kubuntu-netbook in virtualbox,
to check out the interface before I install it on the netbook. I realize
this will be a slightly different experience than the real thing, but
most of the feedback is about deeper design issues and unrelated bugs.

It's quite long, but covers many points. I hope somebody reads it.


After the first 30 seconds from my first login, my impression was: wtf?
That's a damn bizarre interface, not what I'd expect for a simple
netbook. It's not that it's different from what I'm used to; it's that
it's different in an overly-complex, confusing, cumbersome and
non-intuitive way.

After about 15 minutes more of playing around with it, and a tip or two
from someone in the #kubuntu-netbook channel, I think I figured out how
most of the interface works, after which my response was: wtf?

Let me guide you through my experience.

First, the menu. Nice large icons, good for a small display. It should
be easier to navigate on a netbook than with the regular K menu, even
with a touchpad, right? so there's the main menu categories, good. click
on a category. The main icons are replaced with the submenu icons. ok.
How do I go back up the hierarchy? No arrows there. The main categories
are gone. No right-click. Can't click off the menu to reset it. wtf?

So, after a bunch of tinkering - what's that? a little house icon. Was
it here before? I'm not quite sure, I was looking at the menu. But it
looks familiar, like from a browser. On the very corner. Of the desktop.
Like a 'my computer' icon in windows, or other such desktop icons, on
desktops. What does it do?

Oooh! The house-shaped desktop icon, is nothing more than a back arrow
for the menu! So instead of simple normal navigation, we now get to move
all the way to the corner, click on a desktop icon, and move all the way
back to the center (touchpads aren't the quickest way around). Want to
look through the menus to see what's available? repeat this half a dozen
times, sliding the touchpad back and forth from the center of the screen
to the corner, stopping for clicks at each end, with the little house
zapping in and out of existence. wtf?

Just off the top of my head: put the icon right next to the menu. Use an
intuitive graphic, such as a back arrow, or a constant K-menu logo, or
something familiar and intuitive. Or a stretched out arrow thing like in
the regular K-menu, maybe horizontal on top of the icons. Even better,
reduce the number of clicks necessary altogether - maybe a two-row menu,
with the top being the main categories, and the bottom one being the
sub-menu. it's intuitive, simple, static, requires less movement and
fewer clicks (no need for a 'back' button at all). If for some reason
you don't like a two-line menu (although there's plenty of space for
that, even on a netbook) - u can use the single bar, and have a
right-click go up one level in the menu. no need to use the touchpad to
do that. The point is that u don't have to stray too far from the
regular desktop K-menu - the standard navigation mechanism is already
pretty good! Come to think of it, just take the normal K-menu and turn
it sideways, moving the text into tooltips. No need to reinvent it from
scratch...

ok, on to the next thing - that transparent bar above it. For a new
user, it's certainly bizarre. u can't click nor right-click on it.
nothing to scroll. nothing drags in, nothing drags out. what is it? My
first thought - it's the new taskbar! So I start a couple of
applications, but nada. A few more tests, opening some apps, console,
calculator, firefox. Oh wait! The firefox icon suddenly appears in this
strange aquarium bar! maybe only some apps go there, and not others?
Very strange. I click on it, and yet another firefox instance opens, not
the running one. Hmmm. Maybe a right-click will explain something? Nope.
If only there was some explanation somewhere, even grayed out text, a
placeholder for what's to come, telling me what this thing is...

So, let's put that aside for now, figure it out later. Where are all the
apps I just opened? The top-left corner of the taskbar says '11 running
apps'. Where are they? No icons? No task buttons? Nope. No way to find
them. Maybe click on this corner? It seems to give visual feedback for
the click, but nothing happens. Oh well. So I turn to old habits, and
eventually find alt-tab works. Glad that works, even if it's somewhat
annoying to scroll through 11 apps like that. Ok, so not even tiny task
icons to remind me what's running and let me switch apps with a glance.
Let's move on.

Playing with the interface a few more minutes, I notice there's a little
star icon in the menu items, and little minus sign in the favorites
thing. It took a while to notice each, and figure out what they do, and
what the mysterious bar does - favorites. Mainly, they're not too
noticable. The human brain tends to ignore tiny things that fade in and
fade out a tad off center from where you're looking at, especially when
there are other effects going on at the same time (the whole icon frame
fading in and out around it, while the mouse is also moving). That first
time firefox popped into the favorites bar, I must have clicked the star
by mistake without even noticing. Both the star icons and minus icons
are sort of in the way of clicking on the icon itself! I found it a
novel idea at first, putting a button-icon on top of an icon, but less
than a minute later I found it to be more annoying and mistake-prone
than useful. Especially with the knowledge that now I have to be extra
careful about the exact placement of the pointer using the touchpad, not
to hit the star, which makes the larger-than usual icons moot.

Again, the simple, known and intuitive approach could do the same, with
not much more effort. No need to reinvent the wheel. Dragging an icon
from the menu to the favorites makes it a favorite. Right clicking on it
gives a 'add to favorites' option. Right-clicking on the favorite icon
gives a 'remove favorite' option. Dragging the icon out of the favorites
to anywhere outside it removes it as well. Note, in addition, that this
action of adding/removing doesn't happen too often in one's computer
lifetime, if at all. So having the add/remove icon buttons there all the
time is just annoying and in the way, since u normally don't use them in
daily work. These infrequent configuration items are exactly the place
where it's ok to trade a tiny bit more mouse activity, in return for
zero clutter during normal work. They should be invisible when I don't
need them, and magically-intuitive to find and use when I do.

ok, let's move on. There's the desktop, which seems to do nothing. Can't
click or right-click, can't drag icons onto it. It looks like there's no
interaction possible with the desktop at all. Not quite a desktop, more
of a wallpaper. So everything useful in the interface is tiny, hidden or
squeezed, but half the desktop is wasted space. wtf?

So now I look at the task bar again. Let's explore! Hmm.. those two tiny
little icons - a helpful tooltip says they can lock or logoff, very
convenient. But why on earth are they so tiny? Less than half the size
of an already tiny icon! Maybe because it's a netbook, and there's not
much space to waste. But wait, this taskbar has a whole lot of wasted
blank space on it, and the two main buttons on it are sooooo wide,
horizontal real-estate doesn't seem to be the problem... nope. It's just
another wierd 'let's do it different for no apparent reason' feature.
Breaks the visual consistency and aesthetics, makes it harder to use. U
could just as well make two normal looking, normal sized, standard
icons. Ones u don't need a magnifying glass to be able to click on, with
a touchpad no less.

ok, on to exploring these two big buttons which on other OSs would be
tasks, but here seem to be something quite different. So there's an
Applications button, which seems to be already selected. Makes sense.
But wait! There's another applications button sticking on the right of
the screen! Two different buttons with the same label! In different
places! A usability gem! Wonderfully intuitive! They must do the same
thing of course!

Let's click the right one. A little menu flies in. I don't know what it
means - the button is clearly off the desktop, and unrelated to the top
task bar. Just a tab hanging on to the side of the screen... let's click
on the background somewhere to get rid of the menu, like in any other
desktop. Nope, it won't go away. What if I click on the other
applications button? Well, something's getting screwed up there. Make it
go away. Ok, let's click the right applications button again (note how I
can't just say 'applications' button, coz there's two of them?) good,
the little menu flies away.

Ok, so now let's try the top applications button. And this newspaper
thing. Newspaper? Which one? Click to find out. So what do we have in
the newspaper? Two totally empty squares. Lovely! And a yellow square,
which I recognize as the post-it notes thing. Of course, it's a
newspaper! Where else would my post-it notes be? And a calendar, in this
newspaper. I'll let that one slide. I see clicking the clock in the
taskbar still works if I really need a calendar, as it does across all
operating systems. But ok, I don't mind an extra calendar, in the newspaper.

And finally, a bit of kde news headlines. Karmic has been released! :-)

So the label 'newspaper' doesn't quite make sense for what this
place/page/desktop/screen does. I'm not sure what to call the whole
concept either (not just the newspaper this time, but also the
applications thingy), since the apps one looked like a desktop but was
actually a menu, and this one is... a bunch of unrelated stuff nicely
aligned together. Are they two desktops? not quite. Workspaces? sounds a
bit better, but still not sure. Hey, maybe the newspaper can be called a
workspace! But then, what's the applications thing called? A desktop
it's not. A workspace too? nah, it's just a menu. but the thing on top
is a menu too! This is all too confusing. Let's try moving things around.

Hey! I can drag the newspaper button on to the applications button, and
it switches to it! nice. Then I must be able to do the same the other
way around! Oh wait, no. Trying to drag the apps button on to the
newspaper causes it to just slide right back. Strange indeed.

Ok then. Back to the right-side button which duplicates the label of the
top button, I now figured out what it does - it pops up a menu for
configuring the desktop area, even though it looks visually outside of
it and unrelated to it. It's a configuration menu. Something that's used
pretty rarely, and doesn't need to take up precious real-estate all the
time. And again, no need to be counter-intuitive and reinvent the wheel.
A simple right-click on the desktop (workspace?) could bring up this
little menu, like in any other OS. There's not enough room for seeing my
running apps, but I have to see the configuration-menu button stuck on
the side of the screen all day? (Yet another) wtf? If only my running
task icons were placed here in these nice tabs... now *that* would be
useful!

The little search box is a great idea. Dunno why it makes the little
menu-house icon appear though. Weird. I was gonna end with that, but
just found out there's no quick way to close the search box with the
touchpad - u need to aim for the little x button. Too bad clicking
anywhere else (e.g. desktop) doesn't make it go away, like pop-up stuff
usually behave. Same for that desktop-configuration menu button, as
previously mentioned.

Well, I think I'll end here. When this bunch gets sorted out, I'll give
it another round :-)

For the meanwhile, my netbook will enjoy the standard desktop edition
(well not for sure, because of dropped GMA500 support, but I'm really
tired of windows xp after almost a decade, so I'll see what I can do).

To conclude:

Having a netbook edition doesn't mean u have to make everything up anew.
The only differences from the desktop experience should be less mouse
(touchpad) movement to accomplish things, and making better use of a
small display's real-estate. That's it.

New paradigms are not good simply because they're novel and different -
they have to actually do a better job. Breaking well established
guidelines and user-intuition built over decades (e.g. using right-click
for context/configuration menus, using drag and drop, etc.) will simply
turn people off. That was my reaction, and that was the reaction of
others in the #kubuntu channel. They gave it one usb-boot/vm shot, said
'wtf?', and trashed it. Imagine a colleague/friend borrowing your
netbook for a minute to check her mail. I think the goal should be, in
60 seconds, to have her say 'wow that kubuntu thing is really cool! I
wish I had that too!', rather than 'my coffee break is over and I still
didn't find where the browser disappeared... you and your weird
gizmos... can't u use normal windows like everybody else?'

I know it's not an official kde release yet (although it does look like
an official kubuntu release), but I took the time to write my experience
up in the hope that all this will be thought through and sorted out
before the next release, so kubuntu-netbook will provide a genuinely
upgraded and more productive experience on netbooks than the alternatives.

If you got this far, may u be blessed with a fun and joyful day to
compensate for this :-)

Thanks for you time and efforts,

Amichai




--
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:47 PM
"A. Tres Finocchiaro"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

Amichai,

Finally got the chance to read this.* Sounds like early kde4.* Lots of new great ideas but poor execution.

I'm right along with you and hundreds of other users that get frustrated when interface cleanup turns into interface clutter (try right clicking a quicklaunch icon in Windows 7 for example).


I'm also old school and set in my old school ways.* Thanks for an interesting read.* I think thousands would benefit if you had a blog write-up with pictures.* It would take a while to create, but would really outline the interface for those like me hesitant to install it.


-Tres



On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Peter Antoniac <pan1nx@linux.com> wrote:

> Thanks for you time and efforts,



Thanks for the review. You should send this email also to the other list:

ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com



Nice work!



Peter

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Old 11-06-2009, 05:13 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:47:36 -0500 "A. Tres Finocchiaro"
<fatbuttlarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>Amichai,
>
>Finally got the chance to read this. Sounds like early kde4. Lots of new
>great ideas but poor execution.

Please note that this initial release of Kubuntu Netbook has been
explicitly labled a tech preview release in (as far as I know) every single
piece of end user documentation and announcment we've done. There is also
a click-through in the installer that explains this.

Deriding the "Poor execution" of something you clearly haven't tried isn't
at all helpful. We put it out there to get feedback from users (which is
appreciated, good or bad).

Scott K

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Old 11-06-2009, 08:04 AM
"A. Rothman"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

I'm glad people find
this to be an interesting read - that was my intention in this writeup:
to* get people in the community to think about the requirements and
design of new interface paradigms, discuss them, criticize them, and
provide additional feedback, so that a healthy balance can be found
between the desire to innovate (and well, strange developer whims) and
something that actually provides increased usability for users.





However I'm concerned
that a blogged, illustrated writeup may easily turn into general
negative hype, which will ultimately do the project a disservice. I
believe it's not too late to change things for the better and come up
with a really good interface, and I think discussions in the lists and
channels can help achieve this, which is why I posted here. If these
changes never come about, even after the issues have been pointed out
to the developers, that would be another story...





The road to usability
is paved with good intentions ;-)







Amichai







A. Tres Finocchiaro
wrote:



Amichai,



Finally got the chance to read this.* Sounds like early kde4.* Lots of
new great ideas but poor execution.



I'm right along with you and hundreds of other users that get
frustrated when interface cleanup turns into interface clutter (try
right clicking a quicklaunch icon in Windows 7 for example).



I'm also old school and set in my old school ways.* Thanks for an
interesting read.* I think thousands would benefit if you had a blog
write-up with pictures.* It would take a while to create, but would
really outline the interface for those like me hesitant to install it.



-Tres







On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Peter
Antoniac <pan1nx@linux.com> wrote:


> Thanks for you time and efforts,




Thanks for the review. You should send this email also to the other
list:

ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com



Nice work!



Peter

-

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*https://launchpad.net/~pan1nx

*GIT/CS a C+++ UL+++$ w--- PGP++ e++++



BOFH excuse #310:



asynchronous inode failure




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Old 11-06-2009, 08:34 AM
"A. Rothman"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

Scott,





I just went through the
entire process again, starting at the kubuntu homepage, through
download links, and installation. In the site, the only indication is
the two words 'Technology Preview' in the download description. It's
not in the title, and if one uses torrent links, he will never see
this. During the installation, there is a long notice, beginning with
'This is Kubuntu Netbook Edition 9.10, this new Ubuntu variant's first
release.'





While the intention is
clearly there, it seems to fail the average user test - he (me?) will
aim for the title and download link, not really read the descriptions.
In the best case, he will read the first sentence of the installer
notice, which has no mention of being a preview, and in the worst he'll
just click 'forward' without reading past the first 3 words. I doubt
anyone will read the 18-short-line notice.





I'd suggest putting the
words 'Technical Preview' in the actual iso filename, which is much
harder to miss when downloading, copying, or installing, and in the
first line of the installation notice, as well as put the notice up
when running in livecd mode, which has no indication at all of being a
preview, anywhere.





One of the first
usability guidelines I've learned, years ago: "Always assume the user
is stupid, ignorant, and lazy." :-)







Amichai







Scott Kitterman wrote:




On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:47:36 -0500 "A. Tres Finocchiaro"
<fatbuttlarry@gmail.com> wrote:


Amichai,

Finally got the chance to read this. Sounds like early kde4. Lots of new
great ideas but poor execution.



Please note that this initial release of Kubuntu Netbook has been
explicitly labled a tech preview release in (as far as I know) every single
piece of end user documentation and announcment we've done. There is also
a click-through in the installer that explains this.

Deriding the "Poor execution" of something you clearly haven't tried isn't
at all helpful. We put it out there to get feedback from users (which is
appreciated, good or bad).

Scott K





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Old 11-06-2009, 01:58 PM
"A. C. Censi"
 
Default A Kubuntu-Netbook first time user's feedback

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:12 AM, A. Rothman <amichai2@amichais.net> wrote:
> I just tried out the new kubuntu-netbook release, and wanted to share my
> thoughts - unfortunately made up almost entirely of 'constructive
> criticism' :-(

Another experience:

I installed Kubuntu-netbook in a small netbook, ASUS eePC 701,
original model with a Celeron CPU, SSdisk of 4 GB, 1 GB RAM and a
microSD with 6GB also.

It installed ok, everything is working, wireless, suspend/resume,
display, composite display, sound, camera, etc. The speed and overall
usability is ok, for light use like browsing the internet, seeing
youtube videos, etc.

I have done a failed atempt of installing and using the Moblin 2.0
Ubuntu version, in the same hardware, where the even the display could
not adjust to small screen size, and several other features did not
worked or worked with troubles.

Normal Ubuntu Network Remix worked OK too.

The interface of Knetbook is somewhat different from the UNR, and for
users coming from a regular desktop version, sometimes frustrating:
switching applications or launching new ones, for instance. The
newspaper view too is somewhat strange and not easy to put something
useful on the various widgets: even if I was somewhat familiar with a
similar web environment, like Netvibes, that I used for a long time,
before switching back to Google Reader (because of interface speed,
mainly), I did not got to have a confortable environment with this
Knetbook interface.

Boot time to login screen is fast on the slow HW From login to KDE it
is somewhat slow, but with good feed-back to the user of the evolution
of the loading of the large KDE interface libs.

About the horizontal menus in form of icon ribbons:

- the Favorites ribbon has an annoying flaw: you can delete an entry
if you click in a small red square in the icon, without any prompt.

- the use of the Home icon to go upper in the ribb (menu) also is
strange. Beginners could adopt more easily to this type of user
interface.

- nother break in user interface for users is the lack or right
buttons menus in icons, it seems a journey to back to the pre-Windows
95, where the right button mouse button was not used for almost
anything. On the other side, with a touchscreen, it is a little more
difficult to have a right-button click, and this would not be an
issue.


Regarding switching applications, i am using the keyboard, old Alt-Tab
keys, and selecting from the composite views of open applications.

The background wallpaper cannot be changed and seeing the same
abstract image with blue theme and white balls is BORING.

All in all, it is a nice addition to the list of interfaces for
small-screens netbooks. I think that in the future the idea of the
newspaper will be better used with more widgets.

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