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Old 11-19-2008, 12:33 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Moving to Bazaar

KHello World!

At yesterday's meeting we discussed the possibility of moving the packaging of
all KDE core packages to bazaar branches.
The general feeling seemed to be in favor of starting a migration.

Scott, who had reservation about the performance of bzr didn't make it to the
meeting, so we probably should work this out via mail. In general we should
get every question or problem resolved before starting to use bzr for real.

I propose that we create a testing branch of kdebase-workspace so that people
can try using it for real and find possible flaws. Since workspace also got the
biggest packaging I suppose it should also give a good indication about the
performance.

<james_w> in a few months there will be branches to play with, proper
launchpad hosting for them, faster bzr, tools to make the work easier, and
ways to replace e.g. patches.ubuntu.com
...
<james_w> anyone that wants to discuss that sort of thing is encouraged to
head over to vcs-pkg.org
...
<james_w> for details on what we are up to in Ubuntu you can visit
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment

Advantages would be:
* Improved collaboration
* Improved reviewing capabilities for sponsors
* Improved error tracing
* Decreased amount of uploads with minor changes
* At a more advanced stage of the distributed development, merging with
Debian should become a lot easier

Disadvantages:
* One needs to know how to use bzr and bzr builddeb/buildpackage

Remarks:
* smarter wants to improve the documentation a bit
* Until the complete Ubuntu Distributed Development model starts everyone
has to use bzr, otherwise merging with the archive causes some extra work
* james_w noted, that full-source branches is the way to go, since it makes
handling "patches" easier
- This however conflicts with the common sense of good packaging (which
would suggest patches as patch files rather than applying directly to the
source)
- Also it is fairly impossible to use full-source branches for most core
KDE
packages since they are usually fairly big (workspace contains 92 MiB of
uncompressed data, now say that grows 1 MiB of compressed diff every
month
due to regular updates we are pretty easily at 100 MiB, then we have a
new
x.* release ever 6 months which causes a compressed diff of at estimated
10 MiB...)
- We agreed to look at this once the distributed development is in a more
advanced state



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Old 11-21-2008, 08:15 AM
Giuseppe Bilotta
 
Default Moving to Bazaar

On Wednesday 19 November 2008 14:33, Harald Sitter wrote:

> KHello World!
>
> At yesterday's meeting we discussed the possibility of moving the packaging of
> all KDE core packages to bazaar branches.
> The general feeling seemed to be in favor of starting a migration.
>
> Scott, who had reservation about the performance of bzr didn't make it to the
> meeting, so we probably should work this out via mail. In general we should
> get every question or problem resolved before starting to use bzr for real.

Hello all, I'm not the most frequent direct contributor to
Kubuntu, but I try to follow its development quite closely, and
try the live CDs from time to time. So consider my opinion for
what it is 8-)

I must say that I was quite surprised when I read this email, and
I sorely miss not participating in the meeting. Anyway, my remark
is: considering the KDE itself is considering switching to git for
a more distributed development model (see e.g.
<http://dot.kde.org/1219926799/>), and that Debian is switching to
git for its package maintenance, wouldn't git be a better choice
than bzr for the task discussed in this thread?

Note that I'm suggesting this not because of technical reasons
(I've never used bzr myself, only hg and git), but for consistency
with the upstream development styles.

(Oh, I *do* believe that git is a better technical choice, but
I've only _read_ about bzr and not used it, so I do not have the
knowledge to defend my position on that 8-) )

Thanks for the attention and sorry for the intermission,

--
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta


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Old 11-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Moving to Bazaar

On Friday 21 November 2008 04:15, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 November 2008 14:33, Harald Sitter wrote:
> > KHello World!
> >
> > At yesterday's meeting we discussed the possibility of moving the
> > packaging of all KDE core packages to bazaar branches.
> > The general feeling seemed to be in favor of starting a migration.
> >
> > Scott, who had reservation about the performance of bzr didn't make it to
> > the meeting, so we probably should work this out via mail. In general we
> > should get every question or problem resolved before starting to use bzr
> > for real.
>
> Hello all, I'm not the most frequent direct contributor to
> Kubuntu, but I try to follow its development quite closely, and
> try the live CDs from time to time. So consider my opinion for
> what it is 8-)
>
> I must say that I was quite surprised when I read this email, and
> I sorely miss not participating in the meeting. Anyway, my remark
> is: considering the KDE itself is considering switching to git for
> a more distributed development model (see e.g.
> <http://dot.kde.org/1219926799/>), and that Debian is switching to
> git for its package maintenance, wouldn't git be a better choice
> than bzr for the task discussed in this thread?
>
> Note that I'm suggesting this not because of technical reasons
> (I've never used bzr myself, only hg and git), but for consistency
> with the upstream development styles.
>
> (Oh, I *do* believe that git is a better technical choice, but
> I've only _read_ about bzr and not used it, so I do not have the
> knowledge to defend my position on that 8-) )
>
> Thanks for the attention and sorry for the intermission,

We really don't have a choice. bzr is the only VCS supported by Launchpad so
if we're going to use one, it pretty well needs to be bzr.

Scott K

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Old 11-27-2008, 02:06 PM
"Yuriy Kozlov"
 
Default Moving to Bazaar

This seems relevant to this discussion:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-November/000514.html

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> KHello World!
>
> At yesterday's meeting we discussed the possibility of moving the packaging of
> all KDE core packages to bazaar branches.
> The general feeling seemed to be in favor of starting a migration.
>
> Scott, who had reservation about the performance of bzr didn't make it to the
> meeting, so we probably should work this out via mail. In general we should
> get every question or problem resolved before starting to use bzr for real.
>
> I propose that we create a testing branch of kdebase-workspace so that people
> can try using it for real and find possible flaws. Since workspace also got the
> biggest packaging I suppose it should also give a good indication about the
> performance.
>
> <james_w> in a few months there will be branches to play with, proper
> launchpad hosting for them, faster bzr, tools to make the work easier, and
> ways to replace e.g. patches.ubuntu.com
> ...
> <james_w> anyone that wants to discuss that sort of thing is encouraged to
> head over to vcs-pkg.org
> ...
> <james_w> for details on what we are up to in Ubuntu you can visit
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
>
> Advantages would be:
> * Improved collaboration
> * Improved reviewing capabilities for sponsors
> * Improved error tracing
> * Decreased amount of uploads with minor changes
> * At a more advanced stage of the distributed development, merging with
> Debian should become a lot easier
>
> Disadvantages:
> * One needs to know how to use bzr and bzr builddeb/buildpackage
>
> Remarks:
> * smarter wants to improve the documentation a bit
> * Until the complete Ubuntu Distributed Development model starts everyone
> has to use bzr, otherwise merging with the archive causes some extra work
> * james_w noted, that full-source branches is the way to go, since it makes
> handling "patches" easier
> - This however conflicts with the common sense of good packaging (which
> would suggest patches as patch files rather than applying directly to the
> source)
> - Also it is fairly impossible to use full-source branches for most core
> KDE
> packages since they are usually fairly big (workspace contains 92 MiB of
> uncompressed data, now say that grows 1 MiB of compressed diff every
> month
> due to regular updates we are pretty easily at 100 MiB, then we have a
> new
> x.* release ever 6 months which causes a compressed diff of at estimated
> 10 MiB...)
> - We agreed to look at this once the distributed development is in a more
> advanced state
>
>
>
> --
> kubuntu-devel mailing list
> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>

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Old 11-27-2008, 02:22 PM
Harald Sitter
 
Default Moving to Bazaar

On Thursday 27 November 2008 16:06:57 Yuriy Kozlov wrote:
> This seems relevant to this discussion:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-November/00051
>4.html

Partly. The Ubuntu distributed development approach will only be useful when
the mentioned remarks are sorted and debian imports are working properly.

It's a nice source for finding old -kde4 packages though ;-)

regards,
Harald

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