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Old 05-11-2008, 07:59 PM
Arthur Britto
 
Default UPS recommendation

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 10:15 -0700, maxim wexler wrote:
> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
>
> What can the group recommend?
>
> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.

You likely want more than a minute. Most likely, you don't want your
system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck. Generally, you
want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.

I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/

The series has:

NUT support:
You want something that works with NUT. Instead of a vendor specific
package. This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
Network UPS Tools
http://eu1.networkupstools.org
NUT is great. It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
changes. If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
know the power is not restored.

USB interface:
* A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.
* Allows monitoring UPS state.
* Allows powering off the UPS.

LCD Display:
At a touch know:
* power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
* battery charge
* estimated minutes remaining

One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
provide a pure sine wave. This can damage a power supply that has
active power factor correction. Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
in use it is not an issue.

-Arthur


--
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:35 PM
Hal Martin
 
Default UPS recommendation

Arthur Britto wrote:

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 10:15 -0700, maxim wexler wrote:


I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.

What can the group recommend?

I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.



You likely want more than a minute. Most likely, you don't want your
system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck. Generally, you
want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.

True, but I find the main purpose of my UPS is to keep the computer
running throughout a short power-outage. That's what happens 90% of the
time, the other 10% of the time, the power outage lasts longer than the
UPS and it shuts the computer down.

I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/

The series has:

NUT support:
You want something that works with NUT. Instead of a vendor specific
package. This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
Network UPS Tools
http://eu1.networkupstools.org
NUT is great. It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
changes. If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
know the power is not restored.

Didn't know that existed. It has really good UPS support too. Guess I
can buy something other than an APC.

USB interface:
* A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.
* Allows monitoring UPS state.

* Allows powering off the UPS.

LCD Display:
At a touch know:
* power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
* battery charge
* estimated minutes remaining

How much do you think this draws? Does it have any negative effect on
backup time?

One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
provide a pure sine wave. This can damage a power supply that has
active power factor correction. Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
in use it is not an issue.

Could this be why my computer makes this horrific buzzing noise when on
the UPS?


I have an APC XS800, the PSU is a Seasonic 330W with Active PFC.

-Arthur



-Hal
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-11-2008, 08:36 PM
Arthur Britto
 
Default UPS recommendation

On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 16:35 -0400, Hal Martin wrote:
> Arthur Britto wrote:
> > You likely want more than a minute. Most likely, you don't want your
> > system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
> > restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck. Generally, you
> > want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.
> >
> True, but I find the main purpose of my UPS is to keep the computer
> running throughout a short power-outage. That's what happens 90% of the
> time, the other 10% of the time, the power outage lasts longer than the
> UPS and it shuts the computer down.

I should have written "At a minimum". More to the point, the threshold
at which you first shut your computer down should leave enough battery
capacity for you to safely power up and down again.

My usual advice also includes:
* Do not run a system without a UPS, if you want a stable system.
* Having a UPS appears to increase disk life.
* Do not plug a surge suppressor into a UPS.
* Get the largest capacity UPS you can comfortably afford.

-Arthur


--
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:41 PM
Willie Wong
 
Default UPS recommendation

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 10:15:49AM -0700, Penguin Lover maxim wexler squawked:
> Hi group,
>
> This summer's electrical storms are coming and I can count on my PC stopping dead several times over the season.
>
> I did a search for UPS units and was overwhelmed by the diversity out there.
>
> What can the group recommend?
>
> I only need something that will give me about a minute's head start to safely turn of the box.
>

I use an APC Back-UPS ES 500. Since my desktop is kind of old and does
not consume too much power, it can (and has) helped my desktop survive
a ~30 mintue outage when I could not be reached to shut it down (as to
how I know: my neighbor gave me a call on his cell asking whether the
power is out for me too...)

I have heard that I can make the graceful shutdown automatic, but so
far I haven't bothered with it.

W
--
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--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 11:51 AM
PaulNM
 
Default UPS recommendation

Arthur Britto wrote:


You likely want more than a minute. Most likely, you don't want your
system to crash when coming back up when power fails soon after it is
restored: your system could be in the middle of a fsck. Generally, you
want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then power off safely.

I second this. If the system is busy, it might take a couple of minutes
before it really shuts down. Ten to fifteen minutes is the MINIMUM
runtime I'd suggest. As the battery ages, runtime will lessen, plus it
gives you more room to expand. Power usage does not scale linearly, if
200 watt usage lasts X amount of time, 400 watt usage lasts less than
X/2 and 100 watt is more than 2X. My personal experiences with power
outages is that they're rare and short, but when they do occur they
happen a few times during the day/night. This, of course, may vary from
your area. Another thing to consider is brownouts or volt dropages. The
ups will kick in if the volt level drops too low (or too high). If this
happens frequently enough, it will deplete the battery or wear it out
much more quickly.



I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series: CP*AVRLCD
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/

The series has:

NUT support:
You want something that works with NUT. Instead of a vendor specific
package. This way your acquired skills are portable and future proofed.
Network UPS Tools
http://eu1.networkupstools.org
NUT is great. It safely powers off my system when the UPS is low.
Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when the power state
changes. If I go out during a power outage, I can stay out longer if I
know the power is not restored.


My personal experience has been with APC equipment, but CyberPower is
also a great maker. I also second NUT. It's a better, more flexible
framework that supports just about any decent ups.




USB interface:
* A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are becoming rare.
* Allows monitoring UPS state.

* Allows powering off the UPS.

USB is almost mandatory now. Serial ports are usually only on high-end
expensive models, and (almost) never on what you'll find in stores.



LCD Display:
At a touch know:
* power consumption (don't need to pull out a Kill-O-Watt)
* battery charge
* estimated minutes remaining



Before spending extra on anything with an LCD, google the model or lcd
errors first. I've seen reports that they tend to be inaccurate,
especially with APC. Mine under reports watt usage by a significant
amount, somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 of actual usage(I forget what my
tests with various light bulbs showed). This was testing the ups with
only a small lamp plugged in, everything else UNPLUGGED (not just off).
I also used several light bulbs since they can vary a little.




One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes it does not
provide a pure sine wave. This can damage a power supply that has
active power factor correction. Luckily for my Silencer 750 Quad
according to the manufacturer due to the short time in which the UPS is
in use it is not an issue.

-Arthur




PaulNM
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-16-2008, 12:48 AM
maxim wexler
 
Default UPS recommendation

--- On Tue, 5/13/08, PaulNM <gentoo@paulscrap.com> wrote:

> From: PaulNM <gentoo@paulscrap.com>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] UPS recommendation
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 4:51 AM
> Arthur Britto wrote:
>
> > You likely want more than a minute. Most likely, you
> don't want your
> > system to crash when coming back up when power fails
> soon after it is
> > restored: your system could be in the middle of a
> fsck. Generally, you
> > want enough capacity to: power off, power on, and then
> power off safely.
> >
> I second this. If the system is busy, it might take a
> couple of minutes
> before it really shuts down. Ten to fifteen minutes is the
> MINIMUM
> runtime I'd suggest. As the battery ages, runtime will
> lessen, plus it
> gives you more room to expand. Power usage does not scale
> linearly, if
> 200 watt usage lasts X amount of time, 400 watt usage lasts
> less than
> X/2 and 100 watt is more than 2X. My personal experiences
> with power
> outages is that they're rare and short, but when they
> do occur they
> happen a few times during the day/night. This, of course,
> may vary from
> your area. Another thing to consider is brownouts or volt
> dropages. The
> ups will kick in if the volt level drops too low (or too
> high). If this
> happens frequently enough, it will deplete the battery or
> wear it out
> much more quickly.
>
> > I am very happy with the CyberPower Intelligent LCD
> Series: CP*AVRLCD
> > http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/
> >
> > The series has:
> >
> > NUT support:
> > You want something that works with NUT. Instead of
> a vendor specific
> > package. This way your acquired skills are portable
> and future proofed.
> > Network UPS Tools
> > http://eu1.networkupstools.org
> > NUT is great. It safely powers off my system when the
> UPS is low.
> > Additionally, I set it up to e-mail my cell phone when
> the power state
> > changes. If I go out during a power outage, I can
> stay out longer if I
> > know the power is not restored.
>
> My personal experience has been with APC equipment, but
> CyberPower is
> also a great maker. I also second NUT. It's a better,
> more flexible
> framework that supports just about any decent ups.
>
> >
> > USB interface:
> > * A USB port is more future proof: serial ports are
> becoming rare.
> > * Allows monitoring UPS state.
> > * Allows powering off the UPS.
> >
> USB is almost mandatory now. Serial ports are usually only
> on high-end
> expensive models, and (almost) never on what you'll
> find in stores.
>
> > LCD Display:
> > At a touch know:
> > * power consumption (don't need to pull out a
> Kill-O-Watt)
> > * battery charge
> > * estimated minutes remaining
> >
>
> Before spending extra on anything with an LCD, google the
> model or lcd
> errors first. I've seen reports that they tend to be
> inaccurate,
> especially with APC. Mine under reports watt usage by a
> significant
> amount, somewhere between 1/3 to 2/3 of actual usage(I
> forget what my
> tests with various light bulbs showed). This was testing
> the ups with
> only a small lamp plugged in, everything else UNPLUGGED
> (not just off).
> I also used several light bulbs since they can vary a
> little.
>
>
> > One thing to be wary of is like most inexpensive UPSes
> it does not
> > provide a pure sine wave. This can damage a power
> supply that has
> > active power factor correction. Luckily for my
> Silencer 750 Quad
> > according to the manufacturer due to the short time in
> which the UPS is
> > in use it is not an issue.
> >
> > -Arthur
> >
> >
>
> PaulNM
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Thanks for your exhaustive replies. I've decided to go for the APC ES-350 for seventy bucks at the local Staples. Mostly because I could pack it home on my bike and avoid the shipping charges which are huge for heavy things, like UPS systems. According to the table on the back of the box I get 6min with a 15in LCD monitor, so I should get slightly more with no monitor attached. I don't care if I don't save something or have to abort a compile in mid-stream. What I'm afraid of his having the power cut out while the r/w head of the hard drive is in motion. That can't be good.

-mw



--
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