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Old 04-25-2008, 05:39 PM
"Mark Knecht"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

I was at my folks house earlier this week. My mom's machine was set up
quite a long time ago and hadn't been updated in at least a year -
maybe two. I wasn't even aware she was using Linux. I simply set up a
machine, gave her an account and walked away. she told me a few days
ago she was using it but was having some trouble with Firefox and
asked me to look at it.

I ran emerge --sync which ran correctly as far as I could tell at the
time. I then tried emerge -pvDuN system and was greeted with a message
about how the profile wasn't set and the system couldn't/wouldn't
perform an emerge. /etc/make.profile was pointing at a 2005 profile.
When I looked in at profiles that were available there were only 2006
& 2007 profiles.

Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
everything?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:45 PM
"Anno v. Heimburg"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

Mark Knecht wrote:
> Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
> did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
> everything?

Sync does update profiles, which includes removing old ones that are no
longer supported. I would't go as far as saying it "breaks everything",
after all, all you have to do is to set a new profile and emerge will work
happily again. Do run the next update with -N, though, as the use flags
included in the new profile may have changed versus the old one.

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 04-25-2008, 06:11 PM
"Mark Knecht"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Anno v. Heimburg <anno@vonheimburg.de> wrote:
> Mark Knecht wrote:
> > Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
> > did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
> > everything?
>
> Sync does update profiles, which includes removing old ones that are no
> longer supported. I would't go as far as saying it "breaks everything",
> after all, all you have to do is to set a new profile and emerge will work
> happily again. Do run the next update with -N, though, as the use flags
> included in the new profile may have changed versus the old one.
>

Thanks. I tried that and had some problem. don't remember at this
point what it was. Anyway, since it wasn't clear I could fix it in a
few minutes I brought the machine home with me so maybe this weekend I
can find some time to fire it up, fix the link, and get started on
updates. We'll see.

I wish it didn't completely remove the profile but just gave you a
warning that you were using an outdated profile like it used to in the
old days.

Again thanks!

- Mark
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gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 04-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Friday 25 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote:

> Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
> did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
> everything?

Profiles are stored in $PORTAGE_DIR/profiles, so they do get removed
during a sync if they are no longer on the server, just like old
ebuilds get removed.

A missing profile shouldn't break anything beyond getting a huge big
error message when you try to emerge something. Just replace the
profile link to an existing current one and 'emerge -avuND world' as
normal

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 04-25-2008, 06:18 PM
Joseph
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

# eselect profile list

follow this guide to update profile:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-upgrading.xml#doc_chap3

and:
# emerge -uDNav world
that should work.

--
#Joseph
GPG KeyID: ED0E1FB7

On 04/25/08 10:39, Mark Knecht wrote:
[snip


I ran emerge --sync which ran correctly as far as I could tell at the
time. I then tried emerge -pvDuN system and was greeted with a message
about how the profile wasn't set and the system couldn't/wouldn't
perform an emerge. /etc/make.profile was pointing at a 2005 profile.
When I looked in at profiles that were available there were only 2006
& 2007 profiles.

Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
everything?

Thanks,
Mark
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list



--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 04-25-2008, 06:19 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Friday 25 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Thanks. I tried that and had some problem. don't remember at this
> point what it was. Anyway, since it wasn't clear I could fix it in a
> few minutes I brought the machine home with me so maybe this weekend
> I can find some time to fire it up, fix the link, and get started on
> updates. We'll see.
>
> I wish it didn't completely remove the profile but just gave you a
> warning that you were using an outdated profile like it used to in
> the old days.

I remember needing a custom profile for something about 18 months ago. I
don't have that machine any more, but I'm sure I put it in my personal
overlay and it worked just fine. There's nothing special about a
profile, it's just a directory with standard files in it and parent
profiles. If you recreate it or get the old one out of an archive,
store it any old arb place you feel like and symlink make.profile to it

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 04-25-2008, 06:28 PM
"Mark Knecht"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 25 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> > Thanks. I tried that and had some problem. don't remember at this
> > point what it was. Anyway, since it wasn't clear I could fix it in a
> > few minutes I brought the machine home with me so maybe this weekend
> > I can find some time to fire it up, fix the link, and get started on
> > updates. We'll see.
> >
> > I wish it didn't completely remove the profile but just gave you a
> > warning that you were using an outdated profile like it used to in
> > the old days.
>
> I remember needing a custom profile for something about 18 months ago. I
> don't have that machine any more, but I'm sure I put it in my personal
> overlay and it worked just fine. There's nothing special about a
> profile, it's just a directory with standard files in it and parent
> profiles. If you recreate it or get the old one out of an archive,
> store it any old arb place you feel like and symlink make.profile to it
>
Really I had only about 5 minutes to look at this. she asked me almost
as I was walking out the door to drive home. (My parents always do
things like that!) I hoped that I'd get lucky, emerge --sync, emerge
-DuN world and 6 hours later, when I got home, ssh in and see how much
got finished. It didn't work out so I just brought the machine back
with me.

This is not a big deal really and I was just sort of surprised that
emerge --sync would remove something that caused such a big ugly
message. I'm fine that it works that way and I have no problem fixing
the machine. This email was really more about my education than the
work.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Mark
--
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:17 PM
"Mark Knecht"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 25 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> > Did this machine just get messed up over time and I didn't notice or
> > did emerge --sync remove the profile from the system thus breaking
> > everything?
>
> Profiles are stored in $PORTAGE_DIR/profiles, so they do get removed
> during a sync if they are no longer on the server, just like old
> ebuilds get removed.
>
> A missing profile shouldn't break anything beyond getting a huge big
> error message when you try to emerge something. Just replace the
> profile link to an existing current one and 'emerge -avuND world' as
> normal
>
BTW - I have been on record for a long time as being very against this
aspect of the implementation of portage and will remain forever so.
(Not that the devs care about my POV. I'm just stating it again for
the record.)

I do not believe that running a simple emerge --sync just to find out
what might have changed should ever FORCE me into profile changes and
complete machine upgrades. Gentoo was supposed to be about choice and
this operation has removed my ability to choose. In this case all I
wondered was what *might* need to be updated. I had no intention of
necessarily doing anything major to the machine. However by running a
simple emerge --sync command to download some new data portage has now
forced me into an update.

There is no way that I know of to know before running emerge --sync
what has been removed from the servers and hence would be removed from
my machine. Why do Gentoo devs think they should remove anything from
my machine. It's my machine, not theirs.

The only way for me to really protect myself would appear to be that I
have to back up everything which I find silly.

Far better in my mind, and stated many times before, would be for me
to create a personal unsupported overlay area and then let portage
move anything that is obsolete to that location. This gets it out of
the main tree but doesn't leave users stranded.

Again, I've said this over the years and I'm just saying it again for
the record.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:20 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:17:38 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> There is no way that I know of to know before running emerge --sync
> what has been removed from the servers and hence would be removed from
> my machine. Why do Gentoo devs think they should remove anything from
> my machine. It's my machine, not theirs.

The problem was caused by such a long delay between syncs. A profile is
deprecated a long time before it is removed, during that period you would
have received warnings about this and advised to switch to a currently
supported profile.

I understand your frustration, but the standard Gentoo portage setup
isn't really suited to an environment where updates are only applied
every couple of years. That's not really a good way to manage an Internet
connected computer anyway, how many security fixes have you missed?


--
Neil Bothwick

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
 
Old 04-26-2008, 05:22 PM
"Mark Knecht"
 
Default Would emerge --sync remove old profiles?

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:17:38 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> > There is no way that I know of to know before running emerge --sync
> > what has been removed from the servers and hence would be removed from
> > my machine. Why do Gentoo devs think they should remove anything from
> > my machine. It's my machine, not theirs.
>
> The problem was caused by such a long delay between syncs. A profile is
> deprecated a long time before it is removed, during that period you would
> have received warnings about this and advised to switch to a currently
> supported profile.
>
> I understand your frustration, but the standard Gentoo portage setup
> isn't really suited to an environment where updates are only applied
> every couple of years. That's not really a good way to manage an Internet
> connected computer anyway, how many security fixes have you missed?
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

I completely understand that part, and actually I have absolutely NO
problem with any of that. Actually I support it. I get that the
maintainers of portage don't want to support everything, etc., so they
remove things form portage. No big deal. And clearly your use of the
word 'standard' in front of 'portage setup' is key here. It's just the
way it works, and I completely understand that.

Where I get frustrated/ticked off/mad is when some independent
developer, or group of developers, simply decides to remove code on
**MY** machine and force me to make updates without giving me *ANY**
opportunity to make a choice. All I did was type emerge --sync and
stuff gets deleted and the machine doesn't function until I fix links
and rebuild stuff. I'm *forced* to make changes when my purpose in
running emerge --sync was nothing more than to *discover* what had
been updated. (Obviously a LOT in this case!)

I get that the leading-edge developer/gamer mentality cannot get their
heads around having machines run for long, long periods of time -
years - but these machines do. My parents were running Myth-0.18 or
something very old. it worked for them so why change it? These
machines only work with an ATI drivers no longer in portage which
forces me to use a kernel no longer in portage. I'm fine with the
overlay concept and I've saved my kernel and ATI driver. What I argue
would be an improvement is that instead of deleting this stuff that
instead it automatically move whatever ebuilds it wants to delete to
my 'obsolete' portage overlay. Nothing is lost. I go one working and
deciding what to change and when to change it. Portage developers can
then decide to obsolete anything they want at any time they want and I
don't end up with a dead machine. (Dead is strong - used only to make
a point - it's 'dead' to me.)

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I know this isn't going to happen
as I've been making this point for years now. I don't understand the
resistance but such are the mysteries of the Open Source world! ;-)

Cheers,
Mark
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