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Old 09-17-2012, 10:22 PM
Dale
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> You don't leave the monitor turned on and disable the power off
> features of it, right?

< raises hand > I leave mine on unless I turn off my puter too.
Actually, I just tested the power save thingy and for some reason, mine
doesn't cut the monitor off. So, mine runs all the time and looks like
it will be that way for a while, unless I can figure out why it doesn't
want to take a nap.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 09-18-2012, 12:25 AM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Monday 17 September 2012 22:22:50 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> I believe that's the beauty of options like CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND. If
> you leave the machine running crunching numbers (of whatever), with
> USB_SUSPEND the devices not used (say, the backup disk you transfer
> to the results of your crunching every weekend) can be suspended,
> saving a little bit of power.

No, I don't need that, having no superfluous devices connected. My weekly
backup is of the entire system to an external USB disk. Not from the
running system; I reboot to a mini system (which I call a rescue system)
each Sunday morning and backup the entire system to USB disk. So far I
haven't needed to recover more than a small section of the backup.

> You don't leave the monitor turned on and disable the power off
> features of it, right?

I resent the kernel's insistence on deciding when my monitor should be
switched off. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself, thank you very
much.

--
Rgds
Peter
 
Old 09-18-2012, 01:02 AM
Michael Mol
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Monday 17 September 2012 22:22:50 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
>> I believe that's the beauty of options like CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND. If
>> you leave the machine running crunching numbers (of whatever), with
>> USB_SUSPEND the devices not used (say, the backup disk you transfer
>> to the results of your crunching every weekend) can be suspended,
>> saving a little bit of power.
>
> No, I don't need that, having no superfluous devices connected. My weekly
> backup is of the entire system to an external USB disk. Not from the
> running system; I reboot to a mini system (which I call a rescue system)
> each Sunday morning and backup the entire system to USB disk. So far I
> haven't needed to recover more than a small section of the backup.
>
>> You don't leave the monitor turned on and disable the power off
>> features of it, right?
>
> I resent the kernel's insistence on deciding when my monitor should be
> switched off. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself, thank you very
> much.

There's a sysctl for that. I don't remember what it is off the top of my head.

--
:wq
 
Old 09-18-2012, 01:13 AM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Monday 17 September 2012 22:22:50 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
>> I believe that's the beauty of options like CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND. If
>> you leave the machine running crunching numbers (of whatever), with
>> USB_SUSPEND the devices not used (say, the backup disk you transfer
>> to the results of your crunching every weekend) can be suspended,
>> saving a little bit of power.
>
> No, I don't need that, having no superfluous devices connected. My weekly
> backup is of the entire system to an external USB disk. Not from the
> running system; I reboot to a mini system (which I call a rescue system)
> each Sunday morning and backup the entire system to USB disk. So far I
> haven't needed to recover more than a small section of the backup.
>
>> You don't leave the monitor turned on and disable the power off
>> features of it, right?
>
> I resent the kernel's insistence on deciding when my monitor should be
> switched off. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself, thank you very
> much.

Well, if that's the way you feel, you obviously don't use (nor need)
udisks, and take care of everything that goes on with your machine,
like when to flush I/O or when to move memory pages to swap.

Me? I'm lazy; the more my OS takes trivial decisions from me, the more
time I have to do interesting stuff and get actual work done. That's
why I use Linux/systemd/PulseAudio/bluez/GNOME; the decisions they
take are usually the smart ones (from my point of view).

But that's just me.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 09-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Tuesday 18 September 2012 02:13:14 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Peter Humphrey
>
> <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > I resent the kernel's insistence on deciding when my monitor should
> > be switched off. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself, thank
> > you very much.
>
> Well, if that's the way you feel, you obviously don't use (nor need)
> udisks, and take care of everything that goes on with your machine,
> like when to flush I/O or when to move memory pages to swap.

No, of course not. That would be silly. I just like to have the monitor
under my control, that's all.

--
Rgds
Peter
 
Old 09-18-2012, 02:51 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 September 2012 02:13:14 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Peter Humphrey
>>
>> <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
>> > I resent the kernel's insistence on deciding when my monitor should
>> > be switched off. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself, thank
>> > you very much.
>>
>> Well, if that's the way you feel, you obviously don't use (nor need)
>> udisks, and take care of everything that goes on with your machine,
>> like when to flush I/O or when to move memory pages to swap.
>
> No, of course not. That would be silly. I just like to have the monitor
> under my control, that's all.

You do. You can turn it off and on via the hardware switch on it, and
you can disable the kernel's turning it off via software controls.

"man setterm"

You have the ability to explicitly control display powersave behaviors
using the -powersave and -powerdown options.

If you're in X, you have xset.

"xset -dpms" turns Energy Star features off.
"xset +dpms" turns them on.
"xset dpms force off" turns your display off.
"xset dpms force on" turns your display on.

Run 'xset' in an xterm to see all the options you have available there.

If you're running xscreensaver, you can control its use of DPMS in the
configuration window offered by the "xscreensaver-demo" program. GNOME
and KDE also provide similar knobs.

--
:wq
 
Old 09-18-2012, 05:58 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

Am Montag, 17. September 2012, 12:57:49 schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 16. September 2012, 20:39:36 schrieb Dale:
> >> The important part is about 'if you are unsure about this, say N here'.
> >> Well, I don't think I need USB remote wakeup or anything so I don't
> >> think I need this but at the same time, udisk is giving me notice that
> >> it should be there.
> >
> > you you never thought about turning on your system via keyboard instead of
> > crawling under the table?
>
> Actually, no. I have one of those large HAF 932 cases that is about the
> same height as my keyboard. It's just about as easy to hit one as it is
> to hit the other. Add in that I rarely reboot either. I don't really
> see the need to use my keyboard as a power switch, not for me anyway. I
> have one that is on top of the case, which is where it should be in my
> opinion.

so you let your box run full power all the time?

Doesn't that sound.... stupid?

--
#163933
 
Old 09-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Dale
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Montag, 17. September 2012, 12:57:49 schrieb Dale:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> Am Sonntag, 16. September 2012, 20:39:36 schrieb Dale:
>>>> The important part is about 'if you are unsure about this, say N here'.
>>>> Well, I don't think I need USB remote wakeup or anything so I don't
>>>> think I need this but at the same time, udisk is giving me notice that
>>>> it should be there.
>>> you you never thought about turning on your system via keyboard instead of
>>> crawling under the table?
>> Actually, no. I have one of those large HAF 932 cases that is about the
>> same height as my keyboard. It's just about as easy to hit one as it is
>> to hit the other. Add in that I rarely reboot either. I don't really
>> see the need to use my keyboard as a power switch, not for me anyway. I
>> have one that is on top of the case, which is where it should be in my
>> opinion.
> so you let your box run full power all the time?
>
> Doesn't that sound.... stupid?
>


No. To me, turning a puter on/off whenever you walk away is sort of
stupid. Me, I never know when I will be needing my puter and I don't
want to wait for it to boot up and get me logged in every time I want to
use it. The power it pulls is about the same as me leaving a light bulb
on. So, in my opinion and for my usage, leaving it on is not stupid.
Doing the opposite could be closer to stupid. Same for my TV. The only
time I turn my TV off is when I am leaving the house for a good long
while. Before you say that I am wearing out my TV, my last TV was well
over 20 years old and the only repairs to it was replacing the speakers
that dried out. It was still working when I ran up on this half price
sale for my current TV. I gave the old TV to a friend and as far as I
know, it still works.

I'm not saying that *MY* usage should be the same as someone else's. At
the same time, mine should not be the same as yours or others. Just as
a example. I'm downloading TV shows from various websites. When I get
ready to go to bed, I line up several videos for download. It may
download for hours while I sleep. Heck, I sometimes wake up before it
gets through and I add more to the list. I can't do that if I shutdown
my computer each time I walk away.

Stupid, not even close.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 09-18-2012, 06:53 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> Am Montag, 17. September 2012, 12:57:49 schrieb Dale:
>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>>> Am Sonntag, 16. September 2012, 20:39:36 schrieb Dale:
>>>>> The important part is about 'if you are unsure about this, say N here'.
>>>>> Well, I don't think I need USB remote wakeup or anything so I don't
>>>>> think I need this but at the same time, udisk is giving me notice that
>>>>> it should be there.
>>>> you you never thought about turning on your system via keyboard instead of
>>>> crawling under the table?
>>> Actually, no. I have one of those large HAF 932 cases that is about the
>>> same height as my keyboard. It's just about as easy to hit one as it is
>>> to hit the other. Add in that I rarely reboot either. I don't really
>>> see the need to use my keyboard as a power switch, not for me anyway. I
>>> have one that is on top of the case, which is where it should be in my
>>> opinion.
>> so you let your box run full power all the time?
>>
>> Doesn't that sound.... stupid?
>>
>
>
> No. To me, turning a puter on/off whenever you walk away is sort of
> stupid. Me, I never know when I will be needing my puter and I don't
> want to wait for it to boot up and get me logged in every time I want to
> use it. The power it pulls is about the same as me leaving a light bulb
> on. So, in my opinion and for my usage, leaving it on is not stupid.
> Doing the opposite could be closer to stupid. Same for my TV. The only
> time I turn my TV off is when I am leaving the house for a good long
> while. Before you say that I am wearing out my TV, my last TV was well
> over 20 years old and the only repairs to it was replacing the speakers
> that dried out. It was still working when I ran up on this half price
> sale for my current TV. I gave the old TV to a friend and as far as I
> know, it still works.
>
> I'm not saying that *MY* usage should be the same as someone else's. At
> the same time, mine should not be the same as yours or others. Just as
> a example. I'm downloading TV shows from various websites. When I get
> ready to go to bed, I line up several videos for download. It may
> download for hours while I sleep. Heck, I sometimes wake up before it
> gets through and I add more to the list. I can't do that if I shutdown
> my computer each time I walk away.
>
> Stupid, not even close.

Maybe not stupid under some definitions, but a waste of power for
sure. When I leave my house, I hibernate my computer; that way I can
even unplug the regulator where everything is connected, so not even
standby energy is wasted. When I'm in my house but not on the
computer, I suspend it.

When I turn it on from being hibernated, it takes about 10 seconds to
get to my full desktop. When I wake it up from suspension, it takes
less than 2 seconds. When it is suspended, it wastes 5 watts (instead
of 4 when it's turned off, but connected to the power grid), according
to:

http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2012/08/05/staring-into-the-axis-abyss-the-railgun-map/

Of course it would be more comfortable to just leave it on all the
time. It would also be more comfortable to not separate organic and
inorganic waste.

Oh, and by the way, what kind of light bulbs do you use that waste as
much power as your PC? Mine uses 15 watts; it's one of the new CFLs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

It is more expensive, and it's a pain to dispose it; but it gives the
same light that a 75 watts normal light bulb, and it pays itself on
electric bills only. Also, it will last longer.

When I moved in with my GF, her electric bill shoot up to the roof (I
brought my 46" LCD TV, PlayStation 3, and in total 5 computers and
other electronics). After a couple of months of shock of seeing the
electric bills, we started to do this kind of stuff
(suspending/hibernating our machines, using CFL instead of normal
light bulbs, etc.), and we cut the spending almost in four.

It is a *little* inconvenience (waiting a few seconds for the TV, the
PS3 or the PC to wake up), but huge money savings.

THAT is certainly not stupid.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 09-18-2012, 08:29 PM
Dale
 
Default Kernel options and udisk

Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> Am Montag, 17. September 2012, 12:57:49 schrieb Dale:
>>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>>>> Am Sonntag, 16. September 2012, 20:39:36 schrieb Dale:
>>>>>> The important part is about 'if you are unsure about this, say N here'.
>>>>>> Well, I don't think I need USB remote wakeup or anything so I don't
>>>>>> think I need this but at the same time, udisk is giving me notice that
>>>>>> it should be there.
>>>>> you you never thought about turning on your system via keyboard instead of
>>>>> crawling under the table?
>>>> Actually, no. I have one of those large HAF 932 cases that is about the
>>>> same height as my keyboard. It's just about as easy to hit one as it is
>>>> to hit the other. Add in that I rarely reboot either. I don't really
>>>> see the need to use my keyboard as a power switch, not for me anyway. I
>>>> have one that is on top of the case, which is where it should be in my
>>>> opinion.
>>> so you let your box run full power all the time?
>>>
>>> Doesn't that sound.... stupid?
>>>
>>
>> No. To me, turning a puter on/off whenever you walk away is sort of
>> stupid. Me, I never know when I will be needing my puter and I don't
>> want to wait for it to boot up and get me logged in every time I want to
>> use it. The power it pulls is about the same as me leaving a light bulb
>> on. So, in my opinion and for my usage, leaving it on is not stupid.
>> Doing the opposite could be closer to stupid. Same for my TV. The only
>> time I turn my TV off is when I am leaving the house for a good long
>> while. Before you say that I am wearing out my TV, my last TV was well
>> over 20 years old and the only repairs to it was replacing the speakers
>> that dried out. It was still working when I ran up on this half price
>> sale for my current TV. I gave the old TV to a friend and as far as I
>> know, it still works.
>>
>> I'm not saying that *MY* usage should be the same as someone else's. At
>> the same time, mine should not be the same as yours or others. Just as
>> a example. I'm downloading TV shows from various websites. When I get
>> ready to go to bed, I line up several videos for download. It may
>> download for hours while I sleep. Heck, I sometimes wake up before it
>> gets through and I add more to the list. I can't do that if I shutdown
>> my computer each time I walk away.
>>
>> Stupid, not even close.
> Maybe not stupid under some definitions, but a waste of power for
> sure. When I leave my house, I hibernate my computer; that way I can
> even unplug the regulator where everything is connected, so not even
> standby energy is wasted. When I'm in my house but not on the
> computer, I suspend it.
>
> When I turn it on from being hibernated, it takes about 10 seconds to
> get to my full desktop. When I wake it up from suspension, it takes
> less than 2 seconds. When it is suspended, it wastes 5 watts (instead
> of 4 when it's turned off, but connected to the power grid), according
> to:
>
> http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2012/08/05/staring-into-the-axis-abyss-the-railgun-map/
>
> Of course it would be more comfortable to just leave it on all the
> time. It would also be more comfortable to not separate organic and
> inorganic waste.
>
> Oh, and by the way, what kind of light bulbs do you use that waste as
> much power as your PC? Mine uses 15 watts; it's one of the new CFLs:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp
>
> It is more expensive, and it's a pain to dispose it; but it gives the
> same light that a 75 watts normal light bulb, and it pays itself on
> electric bills only. Also, it will last longer.
>
> When I moved in with my GF, her electric bill shoot up to the roof (I
> brought my 46" LCD TV, PlayStation 3, and in total 5 computers and
> other electronics). After a couple of months of shock of seeing the
> electric bills, we started to do this kind of stuff
> (suspending/hibernating our machines, using CFL instead of normal
> light bulbs, etc.), and we cut the spending almost in four.
>
> It is a *little* inconvenience (waiting a few seconds for the TV, the
> PS3 or the PC to wake up), but huge money savings.
>
> THAT is certainly not stupid.
>
> Regards.

I guess you pay more per Kwatt than I do then. I would much rather cut
back on something else than my computer.

I still use the old style bulbs a lot. I do have some of those little
swirly things but not everywhere.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 

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