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Old 09-13-2012, 08:05 PM
Philip Webb
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

No progress yesterday. Today, I carefully checked the Kernel .config
& installed 3.4.9 , in case there was something new in 3.5.3 :
I have 3.4.0 in this machine, where the mouse works.
Then I started looking a Udev in this machine to see what mb missing there.
Back in the new machine, I was preparing to remerge -evdev- etc
& casually checked /dev/input : mouse0 was there !
I logged in as user, 'startx' & the mouse worked in Fluxbox !
-- Xorg.log had found a Logitech mouse at /dev/input/event3 using evdev.
Well, perhaps it was some setting which took effect after the reboot.

Well, no, it wasn't. When I had switched off & was replugging connections,
I found that I'd plugged the mouse into a different USB slot :
the previous one -- similar to the one in this machine -- was 2.0/1.1 ,
the new one which works is 3.0/2.0 . NB Mageia + SystemRescue both
find the mouse in the former place, but my new Gentoo only in the latter.
The new mobo is a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 ; this one is an ASUS P5G41T-M .

Further comments are very welcome.

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
 
Old 09-13-2012, 09:34 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> No progress yesterday. Today, I carefully checked the Kernel .config
> & installed 3.4.9 , in case there was something new in 3.5.3 :
> I have 3.4.0 in this machine, where the mouse works.
> Then I started looking a Udev in this machine to see what mb missing there.
> Back in the new machine, I was preparing to remerge -evdev- etc
> & casually checked /dev/input : mouse0 was there !
> I logged in as user, 'startx' & the mouse worked in Fluxbox !
> -- Xorg.log had found a Logitech mouse at /dev/input/event3 using evdev.
> Well, perhaps it was some setting which took effect after the reboot.
>
> Well, no, it wasn't. When I had switched off & was replugging connections,
> I found that I'd plugged the mouse into a different USB slot :
> the previous one -- similar to the one in this machine -- was 2.0/1.1 ,
> the new one which works is 3.0/2.0 . NB Mageia + SystemRescue both
> find the mouse in the former place, but my new Gentoo only in the latter.
> The new mobo is a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 ; this one is an ASUS P5G41T-M .
>
> Further comments are very welcome.
>
> --
> ========================,,======================== ====================
> SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
> ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
>
>

Look at which host controller interfaces you have enabled. IIRC
USB-3.0 required a new one - probably XHCI but I don't really
remember.

HTH,
Mark


mark@slinky ~ $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep HCI
CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=y
# CONFIG_SATA_AHCI_PLATFORM is not set
# CONFIG_SATA_ACARD_AHCI is not set
CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_OHCI=y
CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_EHCI=y
CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_XHCI=y
CONFIG_USB_XHCI_HCD=y
# CONFIG_USB_XHCI_HCD_DEBUGGING is not set
CONFIG_USB_EHCI_HCD=y
# CONFIG_USB_EHCI_ROOT_HUB_TT is not set
# CONFIG_USB_EHCI_TT_NEWSCHED is not set
CONFIG_USB_OHCI_HCD=y
# CONFIG_USB_OHCI_HCD_PLATFORM is not set
# CONFIG_USB_EHCI_HCD_PLATFORM is not set
# CONFIG_USB_OHCI_BIG_ENDIAN_DESC is not set
# CONFIG_USB_OHCI_BIG_ENDIAN_MMIO is not set
CONFIG_USB_OHCI_LITTLE_ENDIAN=y
CONFIG_USB_UHCI_HCD=y
# CONFIG_PROVIDE_OHCI1394_DMA_INIT is not set
mark@slinky ~ $
 
Old 09-13-2012, 09:53 PM
Philip Webb
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

120913 Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> When I had switched off & was replugging connections,
>> I found that I'd plugged the mouse into a different USB slot :
>> the previous one -- similar to the one in this machine -- was 2.0/1.1 ,
>> the new one which works is 3.0/2.0 .
> Look at which host controller interfaces you have enabled.
> IIRC USB-3.0 required a new one - probably XHCI but I don't remember.
> mark@slinky ~ $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep HCI
> CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=y
> # CONFIG_SATA_AHCI_PLATFORM is not set
> # CONFIG_SATA_ACARD_AHCI is not set
> CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_OHCI=y
> CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_EHCI=y
> CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_XHCI=y
> CONFIG_USB_XHCI_HCD=y
> # CONFIG_USB_XHCI_HCD_DEBUGGING is not set
> CONFIG_USB_EHCI_HCD=y
> # CONFIG_USB_EHCI_ROOT_HUB_TT is not set
> # CONFIG_USB_EHCI_TT_NEWSCHED is not set
> CONFIG_USB_OHCI_HCD=y
> # CONFIG_USB_OHCI_HCD_PLATFORM is not set
> # CONFIG_USB_EHCI_HCD_PLATFORM is not set
> # CONFIG_USB_OHCI_BIG_ENDIAN_DESC is not set
> # CONFIG_USB_OHCI_BIG_ENDIAN_MMIO is not set
> CONFIG_USB_OHCI_LITTLE_ENDIAN=y
> CONFIG_USB_UHCI_HCD=y
> # CONFIG_PROVIDE_OHCI1394_DMA_INIT is not set

Yes, the 3.4.9 .config has nearly all of those.
However, I'm not sure that your logic is the right way round (smile):
something is telling Kernel + Udev to recognise only a 3.0 mouse,
whereas Mageia/SR recognise a 2.0 mouse ; the mouse is 2012 ,
so perhaps it will function either way, depending on software.
Why would K+U not recognise a 2.0 mouse ?

That also suggests that if I plug a USB stick into those 2 back ports,
it will give faster transfer speed ; the front ports are 2.0/1.1 .
Is it safe to test that ? -- ie I don't want to ruin a stick.

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
 
Old 09-13-2012, 10:58 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> Yes, the 3.4.9 .config has nearly all of those.
> However, I'm not sure that your logic is the right way round (smile):
> something is telling Kernel + Udev to recognise only a 3.0 mouse,
> whereas Mageia/SR recognise a 2.0 mouse ; the mouse is 2012 ,
> so perhaps it will function either way, depending on software.
> Why would K+U not recognise a 2.0 mouse ?

I would run lsusb in both scenarios. Check dmesg for usb-related
things from bootup. Check that the ports are enabled in BIOS if it's a
new motherboard.

For example lsusb on my system which has a mix of usb2 and usb3 ports,
as well as some combination USB/eSATA ports:

Bus 001 Device 007: ID 03f0:2b17 Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 1020
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 046d:c016 Logitech, Inc. Optical Wheel Mouse
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0764:0501 Cyber Power System, Inc. CP1500 AVR UPS
Bus 005 Device 002: ID f617:0905
Bus 005 Device 003: ID 20df:0001 Simtec Electronics Entropy Key [UDEKEY01]
Bus 007 Device 002: ID 20a0:4107 Clay Logic
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 009 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 010 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub

The first 6 items are my attached USB devices, the rest are the USB
ports/controllers

> That also suggests that if I plug a USB stick into those 2 back ports,
> it will give faster transfer speed ; the front ports are 2.0/1.1 .
> Is it safe to test that ? -- ie I don't want to ruin a stick.

Unless it is an actual USB 3.0 stick (blue plug) with fast enough
flash memory inside, it won't make any difference as far as speed
goes. The connectors are physically different, but backwards
compatible. There is no danger in plugging in older USB devices into a
USB 3.0 port.
 
Old 09-14-2012, 02:06 AM
Philip Webb
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

120913 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> Yes, the 3.4.9 .config has nearly all of those.
>> However, I'm not sure that your logic is the right way round (smile):
>> something is telling Kernel + Udev to recognise only a 3.0 mouse,
>> whereas Mageia/SR recognise a 2.0 mouse ; the mouse is 2012 ,
>> so perhaps it will function either way, depending on software.
>> Why would K+U not recognise a 2.0 mouse ?
> I would run lsusb in both scenarios.

I'll try to remember tomorrow, but I doubt it will say anything new.

> Check dmesg for usb-related things from bootup.

I did that & described the result in an earlier msg.

> Check that the ports are enabled in BIOS if it's a new motherboard.

Both ports must be enabled, as the other 2 distros find the mouse.

The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :
if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,
I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong
& even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.

Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the HDD --
& System Rescue show /dev/input/mouse0 after booting ;
in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.
They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port,
but the Gentoo system as I've installed it don't show /dev/input/mouse0
from that port, but only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port.
Someone suggested it is caused by a Kernel .config setting,
which if enabled seems to force the system to look in the 3.0 port.
Why it should do that doesn't make much sense :
such upgrades are usually permissive, not restrictive.
BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .

>> That also suggests that if I plug a USB stick into those 2 back ports,
>> it will give faster transfer speed ; the front ports are 2.0/1.1 .
>> Is it safe to test that ? -- ie I don't want to ruin a stick.
> Unless it is an actual USB 3.0 stick -- blue plug --
> with fast enough flash memory inside,
> it won't make any difference as far as speed goes.
> The connectors are physically different, but backwards compatible.
> There is no danger in plugging in older USB devices into a USB 3.0 port.

None has a blue plug, so they all must be 2.0 .

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
 
Old 09-14-2012, 04:24 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:06:01PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote

> The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :
> if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,
> I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong
> & even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.
>
> Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the
> HDD -- & System Rescue show /dev/input/mouse0 after booting ;
> in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.
> They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port, but the Gentoo system as
> I've installed it don't show /dev/input/mouse0 from that port, but
> only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port. Someone suggested
> it is caused by a Kernel .config setting, which if enabled seems to
> force the system to look in the 3.0 port. Why it should do that
> doesn't make much sense : such upgrades are usually permissive,
> not restrictive. BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .

Is the cpu AMD? Intel machines require UHCI (USB 1.1) and AMD
machines require OHCI (USB 1.0) for lowspeed USB devices like keyboards
and mice. There's a root hub translator selection in .config that's
*SUPPOSED* to work with keyboards+mice, using only the EHCI kernel
driver, but I never could get it to work.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
 
Old 09-14-2012, 11:21 AM
Michael Mol
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:06:01PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote



> The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :

> if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,

> I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong

> & even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.

>

> Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the

> HDD -- & System Rescue show */dev/input/mouse0 *after booting ;

> in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.

> They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port, but the Gentoo system as

> I've installed it don't show */dev/input/mouse0 from that port, but

> only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port. *Someone suggested

> it is caused by a Kernel .config setting, which if enabled seems to

> force the system to look in the 3.0 port. *Why it should do that

> doesn't make much sense : such upgrades are usually permissive,

> not restrictive. *BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .



* Is the cpu AMD? *Intel machines require UHCI (USB 1.1) and AMD

machines require OHCI (USB 1.0) for lowspeed USB devices like keyboards

and mice. *There's a root hub translator selection in .config that's

*SUPPOSED* to work with keyboards+mice, using only the EHCI kernel

driver, but I never could get it to work.

UHCI vs OHCI has nothing to do with the CPU, but with the chipset on the system. I haven't seen an OHCI-supporting chip in over a decade, either, and most of my systems have been AMD.

Either way, there's no harm in enabling both.
--
:wq
 
Old 09-14-2012, 02:22 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:06:01PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote
>>
>> > The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :
>> > if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,
>> > I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong
>> > & even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.
>> >
>> > Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the
>> > HDD -- & System Rescue show /dev/input/mouse0 after booting ;
>> > in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.
>> > They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port, but the Gentoo system as
>> > I've installed it don't show /dev/input/mouse0 from that port, but
>> > only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port. Someone suggested
>> > it is caused by a Kernel .config setting, which if enabled seems to
>> > force the system to look in the 3.0 port. Why it should do that
>> > doesn't make much sense : such upgrades are usually permissive,
>> > not restrictive. BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .
>>
>> Is the cpu AMD? Intel machines require UHCI (USB 1.1) and AMD
>> machines require OHCI (USB 1.0) for lowspeed USB devices like keyboards
>> and mice. There's a root hub translator selection in .config that's
>> *SUPPOSED* to work with keyboards+mice, using only the EHCI kernel
>> driver, but I never could get it to work.
>
>
> UHCI vs OHCI has nothing to do with the CPU, but with the chipset on the
> system. I haven't seen an OHCI-supporting chip in over a decade, either, and
> most of my systems have been AMD.
>
> Either way, there's no harm in enabling both.

On my laptop (circa 2004) I have to load the USB modules (?HCI) in a
specific order otherwise things don't work properly. I don't remember
what that order is, exactly, as I'm not using it at the moment, but
thought I'd mention it FWIW...
 
Old 09-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

Am Freitag, 14. September 2012, 07:21:17 schrieb Michael Mol:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:06:01PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote
> >
> > > The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :
> > > if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,
> > > I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong
> > > & even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.
> > >
> > > Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the
> > > HDD -- & System Rescue show /dev/input/mouse0 after booting ;
> > > in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.
> > > They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port, but the Gentoo system as
> > > I've installed it don't show /dev/input/mouse0 from that port, but
> > > only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port. Someone suggested
> > > it is caused by a Kernel .config setting, which if enabled seems to
> > > force the system to look in the 3.0 port. Why it should do that
> > > doesn't make much sense : such upgrades are usually permissive,
> > > not restrictive. BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .
> > >
> > Is the cpu AMD? Intel machines require UHCI (USB 1.1) and AMD
> >
> > machines require OHCI (USB 1.0) for lowspeed USB devices like keyboards
> > and mice. There's a root hub translator selection in .config that's
> > *SUPPOSED* to work with keyboards+mice, using only the EHCI kernel
> > driver, but I never could get it to work.
>
> UHCI vs OHCI has nothing to do with the CPU, but with the chipset on the
> system. I haven't seen an OHCI-supporting chip in over a decade, either,
> and most of my systems have been AMD.

and now you are talking crap.

All amd southbridges need the ohci controller driver.

#163933
 
Old 09-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default new machine : mouse trouble : solved by accident

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:06:01PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote
>>>
>>> > The effect is quite bizarre & it was the gods who saved me :
>>> > if I hadn't happened to plug the mouse into the neighbouring port,
>>> > I could have spent days struggling to find out what was wrong
>>> > & even taken the mobo back to the store as defective.
>>> >
>>> > Both Mageia -- installed from USB stick in a partition on the
>>> > HDD -- & System Rescue show /dev/input/mouse0 after booting ;
>>> > in the case of SR it does it before I enter the GUI via 'wizard'.
>>> > They have no problem with the 2.0/1.1 port, but the Gentoo system as
>>> > I've installed it don't show /dev/input/mouse0 from that port, but
>>> > only if I plug the mouse into the 3.0/2.0 port. Someone suggested
>>> > it is caused by a Kernel .config setting, which if enabled seems to
>>> > force the system to look in the 3.0 port. Why it should do that
>>> > doesn't make much sense : such upgrades are usually permissive,
>>> > not restrictive. BTW there's no difference between 3.4.9 & 3.5.3 .
>>>
>>> Is the cpu AMD? Intel machines require UHCI (USB 1.1) and AMD
>>> machines require OHCI (USB 1.0) for lowspeed USB devices like keyboards
>>> and mice. There's a root hub translator selection in .config that's
>>> *SUPPOSED* to work with keyboards+mice, using only the EHCI kernel
>>> driver, but I never could get it to work.
>>
>>
>> UHCI vs OHCI has nothing to do with the CPU, but with the chipset on the
>> system. I haven't seen an OHCI-supporting chip in over a decade, either, and
>> most of my systems have been AMD.
>>
>> Either way, there's no harm in enabling both.
>
> On my laptop (circa 2004) I have to load the USB modules (?HCI) in a
> specific order otherwise things don't work properly. I don't remember
> what that order is, exactly, as I'm not using it at the moment, but
> thought I'd mention it FWIW...

That may be true. I always kept them as built-ins, as having a USB
keyboard be unavailable during a failed boot sequence would be a PITA.

>



--
:wq
 

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