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Chris Stankevitz 09-10-2012 09:46 PM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").

And what's the deal with these "major release versions" of the other
distros? Why do that?

Thank you to all the people who contribute to it... and to those who
are giving great advice/solutions on this list!

Chris

Dale 09-10-2012 10:02 PM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
Chris Stankevitz wrote:
> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
> ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
> questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
> Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
> without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
> simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
> trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
> uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
> worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").
>
> And what's the deal with these "major release versions" of the other
> distros? Why do that?
>
> Thank you to all the people who contribute to it... and to those who
> are giving great advice/solutions on this list!
>
> Chris
>
>


You should turn off the quiet build "feature" and watch all the "stuff"
scroll by. Maybe just do that when you got some spare time. Brownie
points if you can read and understand it all too. lol

My brother has recently converted to Linux, with a LOT of my help. I
put Kubuntu on his rig. When I need help, I google then I ask here. So
far, the folks here seem to know more about *ubuntu than the people that
actually have been using it for a while. Sort of funny in a way. Than
again, so sad. :/

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Alan McKinnon 09-10-2012 10:12 PM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:46:14 -0700
Chris Stankevitz <chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
> ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
> questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
> Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
> without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
> simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
> trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
> uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
> worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").
>
> And what's the deal with these "major release versions" of the other
> distros? Why do that?

They are binary distros so they have no choice. For the duration of
that version's life, all the packages shipped must all work together
and that is only possible if the ABI does not change.

The major version number is a way of recording what the hell you got:
look up the distro version somewhere and see what it says.

For the release to use new packages with their new magic features,
every other package using those packages must also be recompiled and
re-released to. You know about the current level of cluelessness on the
forums, imagine what would happen if there were 6 versions of every
package for every release.


I don't mean "foo-1.2.3-ubuntu-1" vs "foo-1.2.3-ubuntu-2" (which will
always be forward and backwards compatible), I mean "foo-1.2.3" vs
"foo-2.3.4" and a few bar packages that don't use foo anymore but do
use baz.

It would be a nightmare. The only sane way to deal with this is to peg
the packages at version levels and stick with it. Windows does this,
Mac OS does it, Solaris does it. And they do it because that's the only
thing that could work.

Gentoo has no need of major version numbers. It is source-based,
so it can do rolling releases. For any new package foo that changes
it's ABI, portage will find all packages bar that now need to be
updated, and then update them. This could never possibly work for
Ubuntu. Nothing else could possibly work for Gentoo.

Often when trying to understand why Gentoo works a certain way, it
helps to remember who exactly is the distro maintainer. Ubuntu has
maintainers that build packages for their Ubuntu versions and put the
binaries in a repo somewhere.

Gentoo also has such people: You


>
> Thank you to all the people who contribute to it... and to those who
> are giving great advice/solutions on this list!
>
> Chris
>



--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

"G.Wolfe Woodbury" 09-10-2012 10:24 PM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On 09/10/2012 05:46 PM, Chris Stankevitz wrote:
> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
> ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
> questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
> Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
> without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
> simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
> trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
> uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
> worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").
>
> And what's the deal with these "major release versions" of the other
> distros? Why do that?
Most of the binary based distributions have tied their stars to the
major desktop
environments. [For example Fedora is heavily tied to RedHat and the GNOME
desktop, and many RedHat employees are major GNOME developers.]

Fedora/GNOME is very nice for modern hardware and mostly "just works"
because
a lot of effort goes into testing each major release. But the GNOME
philosophy has
become one of hiding the inner workings of GNU/Linux in much the same
manner that
Microsoft hides all the innards of Windows. But Fedora is also the most
'bleeding" edge
distribution, getting the latest and greatest every six monthe or so.

Debian and Ubuntu are also dedicated to producing "desktop ready"
distributions
that hide everything under the hood. The try to provide a more stable
environment as well.

All the binary distributions will have trouble getting the hardware
environment correct.
They just can't move fast enough to deal with the latest and greatest,
or even the tried
and true older stuff. Their Linux kernels have to try to please
everybody and deal in
a reasonable manner with what comes from the computer system makers.
This requires
them to put everything (and the kitchen sink!) in the mix, and hope it
holds together.
Gentoo, encouraging the building of a customized kernel for the hardware
being used,
gets the advantages of clean and lean and best speed available.

Gentoo has become my favorite distribution since it is the most
customizeable and doesn't
force the users to accept too much crap along with the most useable
bits. The documentation
provides relatively clear explanations of "why" in addition to the
"how" The Gentoo Handbook
is one of the most accessible install documents around.

I've been using UNIX since 1977, and Linux/GNU from its invention.
Gentoo provies the
right balance between having the good stuff easily installable, and
being able to configure
exactly what is wanted.

Have fun with Gentoo.

--
G.Wolfe Woodbury
aka redwolfe (fedora proventester :-)

Paul Hartman 09-10-2012 11:26 PM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Chris Stankevitz
<chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
> ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
> questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
> Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
> without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
> simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
> trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
> uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
> worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").

That's how I felt, too, in 2003 or 2004 when I first installed Gentoo,
and I've been using it ever since and still feel the same way. I've
tried other distros but Gentoo feels the most natural to me. I'm okay
with more responsibility in exchange for more control over my system.

Yeah, sometimes it makes you think about what you're doing more than
some other distros, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Thinking is
fun.

Mark Knecht 09-11-2012 12:33 AM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chris Stankevitz
<chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:
> ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). I love the USE flags. I love watching (and
> questioning) what is going to be installed. I love emerge.
> Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"
> without thinking about anything. But in my experience on linux, this
> simply isn't the case anywhere. With ubuntu, for example, I had
> trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...
> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my
> uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it
> worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").
>
> And what's the deal with these "major release versions" of the other
> distros? Why do that?
>
> Thank you to all the people who contribute to it... and to those who
> are giving great advice/solutions on this list!
>
> Chris
>

Like Paul and many others I've never looked back. I'm no power user,
and contrary to a lot of the press out there I don't think you need to
be to use this distro. Just be careful and red a bit. I've been
helping a long time trading partner friend of mine with his move to
Gentoo over the last year. He's hardly using native Windows anymore.
He just runs a bunch of VMs like I do.

Don't go doing anything crazy with your use flags. Yeah, they are
cool, but my experience, especially in the beginning, is that less is
more. I only have about 10 in make.conf on any of the 10 or so
machines we have in our family now. I add a few in package.use when
I'm forced to. Other than that KISS.

Good luck & welcome to the family.

Cheers,
Mark

Chris Stankevitz 09-11-2012 12:41 AM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the release to use new packages with their new magic features,
> every other package using those packages must also be recompiled

I see now.

> The only sane way to deal with this is to peg
> the packages at version levels and stick with it.

I see

> that's the only
> thing that could work.

I completely get it now. Great explanation, thank you! I'm a little
embarrassed though that I didn't consider there was a technical reason
for the major versions. I just assumed it was done for marketing
reasons.

Chris

Pandu Poluan 09-11-2012 02:56 AM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
On Sep 11, 2012 6:40 AM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Chris Stankevitz

> <chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Gentoo is the best distribution I have used (I haven't used too many:

> > ubuntu, fedora, gentoo). *I love the USE flags. *I love watching (and

> > questioning) what is going to be installed. *I love emerge.

> > Supposedly gentoo lacks being able to have a system "just work"

> > without thinking about anything. *But in my experience on linux, this

> > simply isn't the case anywhere. *With ubuntu, for example, I had

> > trouble with sound and ethernet cards that I could never figure out...

> > and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane ("my

> > uncle once said that his cousin typed this magical command and it

> > worked fine for a little while so maybe try that").

>

> That's how I felt, too, in 2003 or 2004 when I first installed Gentoo,

> and I've been using it ever since and still feel the same way. I've

> tried other distros but Gentoo feels the most natural to me. I'm okay

> with more responsibility in exchange for more control over my system.

>

> Yeah, sometimes it makes you think about what you're doing more than

> some other distros, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Thinking is

> fun.

>


This thread reminds me of a page I've posted here quite some times ago:


http://mark.orbum.net/2011/11/15/the-pan-pipes-of-gentoo-linux-always-at-the-source/


I can't put it better than that guy. Although he finally settled for a-linux-distro-named-after-a-headwear, he still longs to be with The Source.


"The Source, Luke! Use The Source!"


Rgds,

Cinder 09-11-2012 07:14 AM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
>http://mark.orbum.net/2011/11/15/the-pan-pipes-of-gentoo-linux-always-at-the-source/
Woow! ... that's ... it's ... I ... I'm weeping ... freely! I'm not alone.

__________________________________________________ ___________
Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! --> http://www.LinuxWaves.com
Join Linux Discussions! --> http://Community.LinuxWaves.com

Philip Webb 09-11-2012 09:43 AM

Gentoo is the best linux distro
 
120910 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Chris Stankevitz
>> Gentoo is the best distribution I have used ...
>> I love watching & questioning what is going to be installed.
>> Supposedly Gentoo lacks being able to "just work" without thinking,
>> but in my experience this simply isn't the case anywhere.
>> With Ubuntu I had trouble with sound and ethernet cards
>> that I could never figure out
>> and the kind of answers I get on their forums drive me insane.

When I wanted to install Linux on my new netbook 2008,
I quickly found that the simplest way to get everything to work
was to install Gentoo, using my notes from previous desktop installs.
In Gentoo, problems are almost always just 1 layer deep,
tho' the Gentoo Forum also tends to be much more noise than signal.

> That's how I felt, too, in 2003 or 2004 when I first installed Gentoo
> and I've been using it ever since and still feel the same way.
> I'm okay with more responsibility in exchange for more control.
> Sometimes it makes you think about what you're doing more
> than some other distros, but thinking is fun.

Exactly my own experience, also since 2003,
when Mandrake was slow to bring out its new version,
other distros didn't install properly & I finally tried Gentoo:
suddenly I found myself looking at a working system on my screen !
-- that machine still runs well enough as a stand-by
without any re-installation & I can update 'world' after > 1 year .

My picture is that using M$ is like staying in a mediocre over-priced hotel,
where there are many locked doors marked 'Private: staff only!',
it's not safe to eat in the restaurant & Security gets angry sometimes.
Binary Linux distros are like living in a fairly good apartment building,
but you're still dependent on company staff + policies.
Gentoo is like owning your own house.

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca


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