FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 09-12-2012, 08:06 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

Am Mittwoch, 12. September 2012, 12:03:04 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 05:43:09 -0400
>
> Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> > When I wanted to install Linux on my new netbook 2008,
> > I quickly found that the simplest way to get everything to work
> > was to install Gentoo, using my notes from previous desktop installs.
> > In Gentoo, problems are almost always just 1 layer deep,
> > tho' the Gentoo Forum also tends to be much more noise than signal.
>
> That's why we have a gentoo-user mailing list instead ;-)
>
> This mailing list is often noted out in the wild as a very high
> signal-to-noise ratio list, in my experience that is definitely true.

and for a simple reason: ml have always been. So 'old timers' and 'people
knowing their crap' hang around those. Then came AOL, eternal September and
forums for this new crop of lol users. And since like minded people love to
congrate...

There have been good forums in the past. Even now. But forums have a massive
problem, even the great ones: if they go down everything is lost.

Mailing lists? Mirrored everywhere. Including your harddisk. Mailing lists are
archives. Forums are yelling competitions.

--
#163933
 
Old 09-12-2012, 08:36 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> There have been good forums in the past. Even now. But forums have a massive
> problem, even the great ones: if they go down everything is lost.
>

+1

NVidia had some really good forums. They got hacked, passwords &
Account IDs stolen & NVidia took them down. There were threads in
there I had gone back to multiple times that I can no longer get to.
Sad.

- Mark
 
Old 09-12-2012, 08:57 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:15:25 -0400
Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Alan McKinnon
> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:00:34 +0200
> > Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Michael Mol writes:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick
> > > > <neil@digimed.co.uk <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Instead we get, try USE="-*" :P
> > > >
> > > > "Try MAKEOPTS='-j1'"
> > >
> > > Which in fact often helps... especially for me, I am using
> > > MAKEOPTS="-j --load=4", and I often experience build problems that
> > > are not reproducible with a fixed number of jobs, regardless how
> > > large.
> >
> > Yes indeed, and that one is good advice.
> >
> > Not every Makefile out there is safe for -j > 1, so running it as
> > one job is valid debugging. It's the correct thing to do with weird
> > build failures as it tests if a specific condition is true or not.
> >
> >
> Yeah, except I've already gone that route, or otherwise ruled it out,
> before I ask. That's why it's grating. (Even more grating when I have
> to spend the time building a package again, just to convince someone
> that, no, it's not MAKEOPTS that's the problem.)
>
> It's like "Have you tried turning it off and back on again".

I learned that one the hard way :-)

Now when I submit support posts, I try emulate what bgo asks:

1. nature of problem
2. what have I tried already
3. steps to reproduce
4. result gotten
5. expected result
6. relevant config files and settings

Tends to weed out a lot of the silly auto-bot style answers


>
>
> > >
> > > > "Turn off distcc"
> > >
> > > "revdep-rebuild"
> > >
> > > And "emerge -e world && perl-cleaner --all && python-updater &&
> > > lafilefixer --justfixit".
> >
> > Another example of proper debugging. A wise troubleshooter will
> > first verify that all relevant maintenance and consistency factors
> > have been done first before doing extensive troubleshooting.
> >
> > The last one, "lafilefixer --justfixit" is especially valuable as it
> > gets right of a huge gigantic steaming pile of crap that a) should
> > never have been there at all in the first place and b) if it's
> > causing the problem is almost impossible to pin down without lots
> > of work. So even if b) is not true, you still get the huge benefit
> > of a)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alan McKinnon
> > alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>



--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 
Old 09-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:15:25 -0400

Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:



> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Alan McKinnon

> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

>

> > On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:00:34 +0200

> > Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:

> >

> > > Michael Mol writes:

> > >

> > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick

> > > > <neil@digimed.co.uk <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:

> > >

> > > > * * Instead we get, try USE="-*" :P

> > > >

> > > > "Try MAKEOPTS='-j1'"

> > >

> > > Which in fact often helps... especially for me, I am using

> > > MAKEOPTS="-j --load=4", and I often experience build problems that

> > > are not reproducible with a fixed number of jobs, regardless how

> > > large.

> >

> > Yes indeed, and that one is good advice.

> >

> > Not every Makefile out there is safe for -j > 1, so running it as

> > one job is valid debugging. It's the correct thing to do with weird

> > build failures as it tests if a specific condition is true or not.

> >

> >

> Yeah, except I've already gone that route, or otherwise ruled it out,

> before I ask. That's why it's grating. (Even more grating when I have

> to spend the time building a package again, just to convince someone

> that, no, it's not MAKEOPTS that's the problem.)

>

> It's like "Have you tried turning it off and back on again".



I learned that one the hard way :-)



Now when I submit support posts, I try emulate what bgo asks:



1. nature of problem

2. what have I tried already

3. steps to reproduce

4. result gotten

5. expected result

6. relevant config files and settings



Tends to weed out a lot of the silly auto-bot style answers



I'm going through one on launchpad right now where I indicated that I couldn't get beeps out of xterm, but I could get sound from sound-emitting websites. (Trying to get x11 bell to function via PulseAudio via work laptop)

First response? "Needs information: Can you get sound from other sound apps?"
#pulseaudio simply ignored me. And googling turns up that Lennart hates the X server as being a funnel for sound events. I was physically twitching by the time I gave up...

--
:wq
 
Old 09-12-2012, 09:59 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:15:25 -0400
>> Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Alan McKinnon
>> > <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:00:34 +0200
>> > > Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Michael Mol writes:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick
>> > > > > <neil@digimed.co.uk <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Instead we get, try USE="-*" :P
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Try MAKEOPTS='-j1'"
>> > > >
>> > > > Which in fact often helps... especially for me, I am using
>> > > > MAKEOPTS="-j --load=4", and I often experience build problems that
>> > > > are not reproducible with a fixed number of jobs, regardless how
>> > > > large.
>> > >
>> > > Yes indeed, and that one is good advice.
>> > >
>> > > Not every Makefile out there is safe for -j > 1, so running it as
>> > > one job is valid debugging. It's the correct thing to do with weird
>> > > build failures as it tests if a specific condition is true or not.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Yeah, except I've already gone that route, or otherwise ruled it out,
>> > before I ask. That's why it's grating. (Even more grating when I have
>> > to spend the time building a package again, just to convince someone
>> > that, no, it's not MAKEOPTS that's the problem.)
>> >
>> > It's like "Have you tried turning it off and back on again".
>>
>> I learned that one the hard way :-)
>>
>> Now when I submit support posts, I try emulate what bgo asks:
>>
>> 1. nature of problem
>> 2. what have I tried already
>> 3. steps to reproduce
>> 4. result gotten
>> 5. expected result
>> 6. relevant config files and settings
>>
>> Tends to weed out a lot of the silly auto-bot style answers
>>
>
> I'm going through one on launchpad right now where I indicated that I
> couldn't get beeps out of xterm, but I could get sound from sound-emitting
> websites. (Trying to get x11 bell to function via PulseAudio via work
> laptop)
>
> First response? "Needs information: Can you get sound from other sound
> apps?"
>
> #pulseaudio simply ignored me. And googling turns up that Lennart hates the
> X server as being a funnel for sound events. I was physically twitching by
> the time I gave up...

It is not a feature I use, but... I think you need the x11-bell module
loaded in your PA config, and point it to a valid sound file
containing your preferred beep noise. Maybe then also run "xset b on"
in X... maybe some "xset b something" to set volume of the beep as
well, and hope your desktop environment doesn't override your hard
work with its own sound preferences.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 10:01 PM
Dale
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> There have been good forums in the past. Even now. But forums have a massive
>> problem, even the great ones: if they go down everything is lost.
>>
> +1
>
> NVidia had some really good forums. They got hacked, passwords &
> Account IDs stolen & NVidia took them down. There were threads in
> there I had gone back to multiple times that I can no longer get to.
> Sad.
>
> - Mark
>
>


I wonder if that is why I get more spam? How long ago was this break
in? I had a account there way back but haven't been there since I use
Gentoo and have the FINE folks here to help. Who needs them when you
have the Gentoo mailing lists. lol

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 09-12-2012, 10:08 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>

> wrote:

>>

>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:15:25 -0400

>> Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Alan McKinnon

>> > <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

>> >

>> > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:00:34 +0200

>> > > Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:

>> > >

>> > > > Michael Mol writes:

>> > > >

>> > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick

>> > > > > <neil@digimed.co.uk <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:

>> > > >

>> > > > > * * Instead we get, try USE="-*" :P

>> > > > >

>> > > > > "Try MAKEOPTS='-j1'"

>> > > >

>> > > > Which in fact often helps... especially for me, I am using

>> > > > MAKEOPTS="-j --load=4", and I often experience build problems that

>> > > > are not reproducible with a fixed number of jobs, regardless how

>> > > > large.

>> > >

>> > > Yes indeed, and that one is good advice.

>> > >

>> > > Not every Makefile out there is safe for -j > 1, so running it as

>> > > one job is valid debugging. It's the correct thing to do with weird

>> > > build failures as it tests if a specific condition is true or not.

>> > >

>> > >

>> > Yeah, except I've already gone that route, or otherwise ruled it out,

>> > before I ask. That's why it's grating. (Even more grating when I have

>> > to spend the time building a package again, just to convince someone

>> > that, no, it's not MAKEOPTS that's the problem.)

>> >

>> > It's like "Have you tried turning it off and back on again".

>>

>> I learned that one the hard way :-)

>>

>> Now when I submit support posts, I try emulate what bgo asks:

>>

>> 1. nature of problem

>> 2. what have I tried already

>> 3. steps to reproduce

>> 4. result gotten

>> 5. expected result

>> 6. relevant config files and settings

>>

>> Tends to weed out a lot of the silly auto-bot style answers

>>

>

> I'm going through one on launchpad right now where I indicated that I

> couldn't get beeps out of xterm, but I could get sound from sound-emitting

> websites. (Trying to get x11 bell to function via PulseAudio via work

> laptop)

>

> First response? "Needs information: Can you get sound from other sound

> apps?"

>

> #pulseaudio simply ignored me. And googling turns up that Lennart hates the

> X server as being a funnel for sound events. I was physically twitching by

> the time I gave up...



It is not a feature I use, but... I think you need the x11-bell module

loaded in your PA config, and point it to a valid sound file

containing your preferred beep noise. Maybe then also run "xset b on"

in X... maybe some "xset b something" to set volume of the beep as

well, and hope your desktop environment doesn't override your hard

work with its own sound preferences.

xset is set properly, x11-bell module is loaded...but it's entirely unclear how to get it pointed at a valid sample file. Even PulseAudio's "Perfect Setup" page glosses over it.

--
:wq
 
Old 09-12-2012, 10:40 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:15:25 -0400
>> >> Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Alan McKinnon
>> >> > <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:00:34 +0200
>> >> > > Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Michael Mol writes:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick
>> >> > > > > <neil@digimed.co.uk <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > Instead we get, try USE="-*" :P
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > "Try MAKEOPTS='-j1'"
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Which in fact often helps... especially for me, I am using
>> >> > > > MAKEOPTS="-j --load=4", and I often experience build problems
>> >> > > > that
>> >> > > > are not reproducible with a fixed number of jobs, regardless how
>> >> > > > large.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Yes indeed, and that one is good advice.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Not every Makefile out there is safe for -j > 1, so running it as
>> >> > > one job is valid debugging. It's the correct thing to do with weird
>> >> > > build failures as it tests if a specific condition is true or not.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > Yeah, except I've already gone that route, or otherwise ruled it out,
>> >> > before I ask. That's why it's grating. (Even more grating when I have
>> >> > to spend the time building a package again, just to convince someone
>> >> > that, no, it's not MAKEOPTS that's the problem.)
>> >> >
>> >> > It's like "Have you tried turning it off and back on again".
>> >>
>> >> I learned that one the hard way :-)
>> >>
>> >> Now when I submit support posts, I try emulate what bgo asks:
>> >>
>> >> 1. nature of problem
>> >> 2. what have I tried already
>> >> 3. steps to reproduce
>> >> 4. result gotten
>> >> 5. expected result
>> >> 6. relevant config files and settings
>> >>
>> >> Tends to weed out a lot of the silly auto-bot style answers
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'm going through one on launchpad right now where I indicated that I
>> > couldn't get beeps out of xterm, but I could get sound from
>> > sound-emitting
>> > websites. (Trying to get x11 bell to function via PulseAudio via work
>> > laptop)
>> >
>> > First response? "Needs information: Can you get sound from other sound
>> > apps?"
>> >
>> > #pulseaudio simply ignored me. And googling turns up that Lennart hates
>> > the
>> > X server as being a funnel for sound events. I was physically twitching
>> > by
>> > the time I gave up...
>>
>> It is not a feature I use, but... I think you need the x11-bell module
>> loaded in your PA config, and point it to a valid sound file
>> containing your preferred beep noise. Maybe then also run "xset b on"
>> in X... maybe some "xset b something" to set volume of the beep as
>> well, and hope your desktop environment doesn't override your hard
>> work with its own sound preferences.
>
>
> xset is set properly, x11-bell module is loaded...but it's entirely unclear
> how to get it pointed at a valid sample file. Even PulseAudio's "Perfect
> Setup" page glosses over it.

/etc/pulse/default.pa on gentoo contains this line (commented out):
load-sample-lazy x11-bell /usr/share/sounds/gtk-events/activate.wav

I'm assuming that creates a sample called x11-bell, then I think later
on when you load the module, you would reference it like:
load-module module-x11-bell sample=x11-bell

then hopefully your xset commands might actually produce something
audible. Cross your fingers, etc.
 
Old 09-15-2012, 12:56 PM
Graham Murray
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> writes:

> and for a simple reason: ml have always been. So 'old timers' and 'people
> knowing their crap' hang around those. Then came AOL, eternal September and
> forums for this new crop of lol users. And since like minded people love to
> congrate...

And prior to the 'modern' forums, the quality of CompuServe forums was
(IMHO) far higher than nearly all of today's web-based forums.
 
Old 09-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Daniel Wagener
 
Default Gentoo is the best linux distro

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:55:37 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> > lafilefixer --justfixit".

> The last one, "lafilefixer --justfixit" is especially valuable as it
> gets right of a huge gigantic steaming pile of crap that a) should
> never have been there at all in the first place and b) if it's causing
> the problem is almost impossible to pin down without lots of work. So
> even if b) is not true, you still get the huge benefit of a)

while we are at it…
does it still make sense to run it on a regular basis or can I purge it from my maintenace script?e
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 05:54 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org