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Old 09-08-2012, 12:41 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

I updated world yesterday, and discovered that bash functionality was
severly degraded on my machine. No up-arrow to scroll through history,
no tab-completion, etc, etc. A bit of Google searching turned up the
fact that bash no-longer uses an internal "readline" library, but now
depends on the "readline" USE flag for this functionality. If you don't
have "readline" globally enabled set...

app-shells/bash readline

...in package.use.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
 
Old 09-08-2012, 08:07 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:41:28 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:

> I updated world yesterday, and discovered that bash functionality was
> severly degraded on my machine. No up-arrow to scroll through history,
> no tab-completion, etc, etc. A bit of Google searching turned up the
> fact that bash no-longer uses an internal "readline" library, but now
> depends on the "readline" USE flag for this functionality. If you don't
> have "readline" globally enabled set...

Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do you have
USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.


--
Neil Bothwick

Last words of a Windows user: = Where do I have to click now? - There?
 
Old 09-09-2012, 03:42 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:07:02AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote

> Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do
> you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.

Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers "in
their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all reasonable
profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45
seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
 
Old 09-09-2012, 07:41 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:

> > Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do
> > you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.
>
> Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers "in
> their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all reasonable
> profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45
> seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun.

I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere this
weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up.

BTW that delay was typically caused by buggy/obsolete router firmware
failing to handled IPv6 requests, but should not be an issue on a fully
non-IPv6 system as it needs a kernel with IPv6 enabled to make any
difference. Still, it was not a good move, but I don't agree that risking
further breakage is the best response to one less than optimal decision
by the devs.


--
Neil Bothwick

I typed Format SER: and accidentally killed a telephone operator!
 
Old 09-09-2012, 10:00 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400
"Walter Dnes" <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:07:02AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
>
> > Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do
> > you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.
>
> Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers "in
> their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all reasonable
> profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45
> seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun.
>

Looks to me like you added in a huge problem to fix a minor one.

Yes, the devs will occasionally make a mistake. This is rare but it
does happen because bugs happen. In a case like this just add "-ipv6"
to USE and things go back to what they were. Or, when previewing what
emerge world wants to do, note that a new flag is enabled, remove it
yourself and let emerge world proceed when you are happy with it.

But now you have to do all that heavy lifting yourself, every single
time you want to emerge anything.

--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 
Old 09-10-2012, 03:11 PM
Willie WY Wong
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 12:00:15PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked:
> Or, when previewing what
> emerge world wants to do, note that a new flag is enabled, remove it
> yourself and let emerge world proceed when you are happy with it.

s/remove/add
and your advice works equally well for us "-*"'ers :-)

W
 
Old 09-10-2012, 07:19 PM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>
> > > Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do
> > > you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.
> >
> > Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers "in
> > their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all reasonable
> > profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45
> > seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun.
>
> I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere
> this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up.

So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to
screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my system
or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops.

I do get the occasional message about...
foo requires bar to be built with USE flag "oogabooga"
when running emerge. I can handle that. Sometimes I even uncover an
obscure ebuild bug, e.g. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401651

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
 
Old 09-10-2012, 10:07 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

Am Montag, 10. September 2012, 15:19:38 schrieb Walter Dnes:
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
>
> > On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > > > Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles? Do
> > > > you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.
> > > >
> > > Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the developers "in
> > >
> > > their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all reasonable
> > > profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning their wheels for 45
> > > seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed out was not fun.
> >
> > I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere
> > this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it up.
>
> So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to
> screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my system
> or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops.

wtf are you talking about? Just because you are unable to look at changed
useflags when glancing over the output of emerge -a is not an excuse for using
something idiotic like -*.

Doing so and then complaining is just vile.

--
#163933
 
Old 09-10-2012, 10:32 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:07:08 +0200
Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Am Montag, 10. September 2012, 15:19:38 schrieb Walter Dnes:
> > On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 08:41:36AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
> >
> > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:42:45 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > > > > Isn't readline enabled by default on all reasonable profiles?
> > > > > Do you have USE="-* in make.conf? If so, it's just bitten you.
> > > > >
> > > > Yup. I did that to avoid further surprises after the
> > > > developers "in
> > > >
> > > > their infinite wisdom" had IPV6 "enabled by default on all
> > > > reasonable profiles". Watching Firefox and mplayer spinning
> > > > their wheels for 45 seconds at a time till IPV6 lookups timed
> > > > out was not fun.
> > >
> > > I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted
> > > elsewhere this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -*
> > > screws it up.
> >
> > So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to
> > screw me up. Next thing you know, I'll have to re-partition my
> > system or else replace udev with mdev, to boot up... oops.
>
> wtf are you talking about? Just because you are unable to look at
> changed useflags when glancing over the output of emerge -a is not an
> excuse for using something idiotic like -*.
>
> Doing so and then complaining is just vile.
>

He seems to have reacted badly to a singular bad experience with a
dodgy ebuild.

It's a classic case of seeing the one occasion where something went
wrong and not see the 999 cases where it didn't. Then truing to deal
with the 1 for the future "just in case"

I get a similar kind of thing often at work. Someone makes a mistake
and a chunk of the network goes down. The next day I might get a
draconian mail from some manager demanding that vast sweeping changes
to login rules be implemented "just in case this ever happens again".

Lucky for the company I have some cajones and just say no. Then I
investigate and 3 times out of 4 I find the broken router is running
some weird version of Cisco IOS which does something completely
unexpected with a perfectly ordinary command. The other 1 time I always
find a bat-shit crazy business customization that no sane engineer
would ever have signed off on.

The solution is never to try change the behaviour of all the humans.
The solution is to change the behaviour of the one faulty machine when
it breaks, and have many smart humans around with brains that can spot
the busted machine quickly.


--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 
Old 09-10-2012, 10:50 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Heads-up; bash now uses "readline" USE flag

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:19:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:

> > I'd rather have that that an unusable shell. As was noted elsewhere
> > this weekend, even if a USE flag is set but renamed, -* screws it
> > up.
>
> So no matter what I do or don't do, a developer can find a way to
> screw me up.

Yes, but since the devs know far more about the workings of the system
and the interrelationships of its components than I do, I prefer to work
with them than against them.

I prefer to start with a known, working profile and tweak it. Rather than
deliberately break everything and then apply my own fixes just to avoid
the odd chance anyone else accidentally breaking it for me.


--
Neil Bothwick

. <-Stealth Tagline
 

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