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Old 08-20-2012, 02:11 AM
João Matos
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

Hi list.

The KDE phonon can't work properly when I plug a USB audio card (like a webcam with microphone) neither recognize my bluetooth headset.

When I used to try to use my webcam microphone, phonon got lost every time I've reboot the system. It always asked me to forget the devices, as if there were new sound cards every time the system rebooted. It also wasn't able to decide which should be the default sound card. Sometimes it guessed correctly, most the time not. Other problems: when kde had the control of a device, none application outside kde were able to use it, as skype or mplayer.



The solution I found then was to disable the support from my webcam's audio card on kernel. Without the USB card support, my system get back to normal behavior and I was able to use the webcam. Of course, it was kinda extreme.



So, I was wondering if use pulseaudio should fix it, but I'm not sure if it can help. What do you think?

Any help will be appreciated.

thanks in advance,
--
João de Matos
Linux User #461527
 
Old 08-20-2012, 02:25 AM
Bill Kenworthy
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

If at all possible avoid it!

I installed it awhile back for similar reasons ... I needed a BT headset
that some programs could only use via pulse.

Since then (and currently) audio only seems to work sporadicly with
strange, and hard to trace problems - its reputation as a pita to work
with is well earned in my experience.


BillK



On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 23:11 -0300, João Matos wrote:
> Hi list.
>
> The KDE phonon can't work properly when I plug a USB audio card (like
> a webcam with microphone) neither recognize my bluetooth headset.
>
> When I used to try to use my webcam microphone, phonon got lost every
> time I've reboot the system. It always asked me to forget the devices,
> as if there were new sound cards every time the system rebooted. It
> also wasn't able to decide which should be the default sound card.
> Sometimes it guessed correctly, most the time not. Other problems:
> when kde had the control of a device, none application outside kde
> were able to use it, as skype or mplayer.
>
> The solution I found then was to disable the support from my webcam's
> audio card on kernel. Without the USB card support, my system get back
> to normal behavior and I was able to use the webcam. Of course, it was
> kinda extreme.
>
> So, I was wondering if use pulseaudio should fix it, but I'm not sure
> if it can help. What do you think?
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --
> João de Matos
> Linux User #461527
>
 
Old 08-20-2012, 03:19 AM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:11 PM, João Matos <jaoneto@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi list.
>
> The KDE phonon can't work properly when I plug a USB audio card (like a
> webcam with microphone) neither recognize my bluetooth headset.
>
> When I used to try to use my webcam microphone, phonon got lost every time
> I've reboot the system. It always asked me to forget the devices, as if
> there were new sound cards every time the system rebooted. It also wasn't
> able to decide which should be the default sound card. Sometimes it guessed
> correctly, most the time not. Other problems: when kde had the control of a
> device, none application outside kde were able to use it, as skype or
> mplayer.
>
> The solution I found then was to disable the support from my webcam's audio
> card on kernel. Without the USB card support, my system get back to normal
> behavior and I was able to use the webcam. Of course, it was kinda extreme.
>
> So, I was wondering if use pulseaudio should fix it, but I'm not sure if it
> can help. What do you think?
>
> Any help will be appreciated.

I've been using GNOME + PulseAudio since the later become stable in
Gentoo. Could not be more happy: my usecase is very similar to yours:
I have a BT headset, and a pair of USB speakers, which include a sound
card. With PulseAudio, the USB speakers works automagically; I don't
need to do anything, and I can change with a click where the audio
goes out, either the included speakers, or the USB ones. With the BT
headset I just need to pair it in the GNOME Bluetooth settings, and
it's the same, I can change where the audio streams go with one click,
and also set it per application.

I also use PA in my Media Center, and the audio quality is... pretty
much the same that without PA, but you get a lot of benefits.

Just take in mind that I use GNOME; I do not know how different (if at
all) it will be with KDE.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 04:10 AM
Michael Trausch
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

PA works well with stereo-only outputs. That's most users.


People such as myself, however, with 5.1 out, are perpetually disappointed and/or frustrated by the lack of the systems ability to work reliably. I constantly have problems playing music, because it reverts to stereo output every time it is opened. It happens in all distributions that have PA, so it isn't a bug in packaging or configuration, unless all distress and upstream itself get it all wrong.


On Aug 19, 2012 11:24 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:11 PM, João Matos <jaoneto@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi list.

>

> The KDE phonon can't work properly when I plug a USB audio card (like a

> webcam with microphone) neither recognize my bluetooth headset.

>

> When I used to try to use my webcam microphone, phonon got lost every time

> I've reboot the system. It always asked me to forget the devices, as if

> there were new sound cards every time the system rebooted. It also wasn't

> able to decide which should be the default sound card. Sometimes it guessed

> correctly, most the time not. Other problems: when kde had the control of a

> device, none application outside kde were able to use it, as skype or

> mplayer.

>

> The solution I found then was to disable the support from my webcam's audio

> card on kernel. Without the USB card support, my system get back to normal

> behavior and I was able to use the webcam. Of course, it was kinda extreme.

>

> So, I was wondering if use pulseaudio should fix it, but I'm not sure if it

> can help. What do you think?

>

> Any help will be appreciated.



I've been using GNOME + PulseAudio since the later become stable in

Gentoo. Could not be more happy: my usecase is very similar to yours:

I have a BT headset, and a pair of USB speakers, which include a sound

card. With PulseAudio, the USB speakers works automagically; I don't

need to do anything, and I can change with a click where the audio

goes out, either the included speakers, or the USB ones. With the BT

headset I just need to pair it in the GNOME Bluetooth settings, and

it's the same, I can change where the audio streams go with one click,

and also set it per application.



I also use PA in my Media Center, and the audio quality is... pretty

much the same that without PA, but you get a lot of benefits.



Just take in mind that I use GNOME; I do not know how different (if at

all) it will be with KDE.



Regards.

--

Canek Peláez Valdés

Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación

Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 04:38 AM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
> PA works well with stereo-only outputs. That's most users.
>
> People such as myself, however, with 5.1 out, are perpetually disappointed
> and/or frustrated by the lack of the systems ability to work reliably. I
> constantly have problems playing music, because it reverts to stereo output
> every time it is opened. It happens in all distributions that have PA, so it
> isn't a bug in packaging or configuration, unless all distress and upstream
> itself get it all wrong.

Mmmh. Have you tried "pactl list" and checking the "Active Profile:"
in the card you are using? Then you can change it with (in my case):

pactl set-card-profile alsa_card.pci-0000_04_00.0
output:analog-surround-51+input:analog-stereo

Of course, if you are using GNOME, you can set it in System Settings
(see screenshot
https://plus.google.com/photos/115256116066287398549/albums/5778609034682831121).
Yes, I have two sound cards, and I still prefer my old SB Live!
exactly because it has 5.1 output. It have never "reverted" to stereo
for me. I got a 5.1 Logitech speakers, with one subwoofer and 5
satellites.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 04:47 AM
Michael Trausch
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

Yes.


I have to change it to 4.1 and then back to 5.1 after every song finishes playing.


It has been that way ever since the first time I encountered it in Ubuntu years back.

On Aug 20, 2012 12:43 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:

> PA works well with stereo-only outputs. That's most users.

>

> People such as myself, however, with 5.1 out, are perpetually disappointed

> and/or frustrated by the lack of the systems ability to work reliably. I

> constantly have problems playing music, because it reverts to stereo output

> every time it is opened. It happens in all distributions that have PA, so it

> isn't a bug in packaging or configuration, unless all distress and upstream

> itself get it all wrong.



Mmmh. Have you tried "pactl list" and checking the "Active Profile:"

in the card you are using? Then you can change it with (in my case):



pactl set-card-profile alsa_card.pci-0000_04_00.0

output:analog-surround-51+input:analog-stereo



Of course, if you are using GNOME, you can set it in System Settings

(see screenshot

https://plus.google.com/photos/115256116066287398549/albums/5778609034682831121).

Yes, I have two sound cards, and I still prefer my old SB Live!

exactly because it has 5.1 output. It have never "reverted" to stereo

for me. I got a 5.1 Logitech speakers, with one subwoofer and 5

satellites.



Regards.

--

Canek Peláez Valdés

Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación

Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 04:59 AM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
> Yes.
>
> I have to change it to 4.1 and then back to 5.1 after every song finishes
> playing.
>
> It has been that way ever since the first time I encountered it in Ubuntu
> years back.

It has never done that to me. Which music player do you use? It
happens with every one? I use Rhythmbox, Totem, Mplayer2, and of
course I watch videos in YouTube in Chromium; nothing even remotely
similar has ever happened to me. But if it happens "after every song",
maybe the music player somehow changes the setting? It sounds fishy,
but PA should not change the setting by itself.

Anyhow, I'm a perfectly happy 5.1 surround user with PulseAudio since
at least two years.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 06:05 AM
Michael Trausch
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

Tested and verified w/ at least Rhythmbox and Banshee. Have offered a bounty for years for anyone who fox the bug. There are open, confirmed bugs in (at least) Launchpad going back quite some time, too. Happens regardless of hardware, but have had it happen on SB Live and several onboards.



The only time I ever got 5.1 working was with straight ALSA, but then I don't get upmixing.


As a result, I have been using netradio. No closing and opening of the audio device.


Also, canberra (the sound notification library) seems to actually output sound correctly, but I think it holds the device open the whole time.


PA isn't changing the configuration back to stereo. It shows 5.1, but media players only output to two speakers until I open the PA control and jump from 5.1 to 4.1 and back.

On Aug 20, 2012 1:03 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:

> Yes.

>

> I have to change it to 4.1 and then back to 5.1 after every song finishes

> playing.

>

> It has been that way ever since the first time I encountered it in Ubuntu

> years back.



It has never done that to me. Which music player do you use? It

happens with every one? I use Rhythmbox, Totem, Mplayer2, *and of

course I watch videos in YouTube in Chromium; nothing even remotely

similar has ever happened to me. But if it happens "after every song",

maybe the music player somehow changes the setting? It sounds fishy,

but PA should not change the setting by itself.



Anyhow, I'm a perfectly happy 5.1 surround user with PulseAudio since

at least two years.



Regards.

--

Canek Peláez Valdés

Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación

Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 06:19 AM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
> Tested and verified w/ at least Rhythmbox and Banshee. Have offered a bounty
> for years for anyone who fox the bug. There are open, confirmed bugs in (at
> least) Launchpad going back quite some time, too. Happens regardless of
> hardware, but have had it happen on SB Live and several onboards.

Do you have links to the bugs?

> The only time I ever got 5.1 working was with straight ALSA, but then I
> don't get upmixing.
>
> As a result, I have been using netradio. No closing and opening of the audio
> device.
>
> Also, canberra (the sound notification library) seems to actually output
> sound correctly, but I think it holds the device open the whole time.

I have libcanberra compiled with PA support, so I can use it with
other sound sources at the same time.

> PA isn't changing the configuration back to stereo. It shows 5.1, but media
> players only output to two speakers until I open the PA control and jump
> from 5.1 to 4.1 and back.

And the players output to PulseAudio directly or through the ALSA
emulation? In GNOME 2 you could configure GStreamer (which both
Rhythmbox and Banshee use) to use PulseAudio as default sink, or using
ALSA; but it PA is running, newer versions will automagically detect
it and use it [1]. I use GNOME 3 and PA is mandatory, so I don't
remember exactly how it was.

Sorry for my curiosity, but it sounds really weird: I have heard a lot
about PA problems, but nothing like this.

[1] http://arunraghavan.net/2012/02/gentoo-pulseaudio-alsa-update/
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-20-2012, 02:51 PM
"mike@trausch.us"
 
Default Should I install pulseaudio to solve my phonon audio problems?

On 08/20/2012 02:19 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Michael Trausch <mike@trausch.us> wrote:
>> Tested and verified w/ at least Rhythmbox and Banshee. Have offered a bounty
>> for years for anyone who fox the bug. There are open, confirmed bugs in (at
>> least) Launchpad going back quite some time, too. Happens regardless of
>> hardware, but have had it happen on SB Live and several onboards.
>
> Do you have links to the bugs?

This is an incomplete list of reports from Launchpad:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/406582

I reported that one, looks as though at least 5 others have the same
problem and have found that bug.

I have had this issue before as well:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/445849
(affects 91 people)

This one looks to be about the same, though lacking enough information
to confirm for sure:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/693039

Another:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/677067 (4 users)

And yet another:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/494099 (17 users)

Aside from my bug, I was able to find the other ones in just a couple of
minutes with Google.

There are pointers to Launchpad from other places, too, such as the
Ubuntu Forums, Gentoo and Arch wiki and forums and so forth.

>> The only time I ever got 5.1 working was with straight ALSA, but then I
>> don't get upmixing.
>>
>> As a result, I have been using netradio. No closing and opening of the audio
>> device.
>>
>> Also, canberra (the sound notification library) seems to actually output
>> sound correctly, but I think it holds the device open the whole time.
>
> I have libcanberra compiled with PA support, so I can use it with
> other sound sources at the same time.
>
>> PA isn't changing the configuration back to stereo. It shows 5.1, but media
>> players only output to two speakers until I open the PA control and jump
>> from 5.1 to 4.1 and back.
>
> And the players output to PulseAudio directly or through the ALSA
> emulation? In GNOME 2 you could configure GStreamer (which both
> Rhythmbox and Banshee use) to use PulseAudio as default sink, or using
> ALSA; but it PA is running, newer versions will automagically detect
> it and use it [1]. I use GNOME 3 and PA is mandatory, so I don't
> remember exactly how it was.

I couldn't even tell you. I stopped actively trying to get PulseAudio
to work correctly with 6 channel output about two years ago or so, I got
sick and tired of people telling me my problem was imaginary. I work
around it by using Internet radio, since that way I only have to have
the PA control panel program open _once_, instead of every time I change
songs.

Rhythmbox and Banshee have improved in the past few years in that they
no longer close the audio device when playing songs in sequential order.
However, that isn't foolproof either.

It's been bugging me again lately, but while I have the motivation to
investigate and attempt to find a way to fix this stupidly infuriating
problem, I don't have the time. Nobody who knows what they're doing
with the PA source code seems to believe that this is truly an issue, so
it's probably never going to be fixed.

> Sorry for my curiosity, but it sounds really weird: I have heard a lot
> about PA problems, but nothing like this.
>
> [1] http://arunraghavan.net/2012/02/gentoo-pulseaudio-alsa-update/
>

I remember that post. Nothing changed, though, at least for me.

--
A man who reasons deliberately, manages it better after studying Logic
than he could before, if he is sincere about it and has common sense.
--- Carveth Read, “Logic”
 

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